.22LR for physically challenged ?

danez71 said:

In the tests that Ive seen, the solid round nose did penetrate more than hollow point.

Presumably, not because the HP expanded, but because the RN weighs more.


Neither is "good" and the difference wasn't that much (If I remember right, the delta was like 4" but the average was only about 1.5").


Im having trouble finding it right now on my computer but BBTI had some info, the NAA forum, and some 22 place out of Nevada (I think Vegas) has some side by side testing too.

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.22 hollow points don't penetrate as deep when fired from a handgun because, while they don't properly expand, they'll get deformed, banged up, and yaw causing more drag. Round nose slips through tissue and pokes a .22 caliber hole in the target.

Not the most ideal bullet, but a CNS hit will do it.

The only .22 I've seen that does expand from a handgun is the Aguila Supermaximum and they penetrate about 10 inches. Not bad for a .22 pistol.

Miky said:

Well your experience is far more relevant than mine. I apologize for the overly simple analogy with the car.

the message remains the same, if you cant pull a double action trigger, or cycle the action on a 9mm or 380, you need to take steps to protect yourself far beyond buying a .22 handgun. Throwing a gun in the glovebox and hoping you rise to the occasion when the time comes isn't a solid strategy for anyone, especially somebody who suffers from a dissability in their hands.

A .22 is a good start, but make sure it isn't the only precaution.

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You don't owe me an apology.... and I hope I didn't come across that way.


This question comes up fairly often,,,, I'm surprised that no one with bad arthritis in their hand ever replies.


I suspect that too often, you're mostly right with the car analogy (and so is aarondhgraham about the willingness/determination to try.)


But its far from being 100% true.


I agree with you though that other options need to be looked into. A 22lr doesn't fix anything... its only a band aid.... to an ever worsening condition.

The easiest gun I've ever racked a slide on is a Colt .22 Rail gun. Cock the hammer and it takes no effort. 12 rounds in the magazine, ~85% the size of a regular 1911. Big enough for a good grip but not huge.

After a lot of research, what I found was that if one has to use .22lr as a defensive round, they should buy premium ammo that has 40 grain solid nose bullets to enhance penetration.

Winchester Super X .22l4 40 grain solid nose is the best option for velocity, but CCI is a close second.

FireInCairo said:

After a lot of research, what I found was that if one has to use .22lr as a defensive round, they should buy premium ammo that has 40 grain solid nose bullets to enhance penetration.

Winchester Super X .22l4 40 grain solid nose is the best option for velocity, but CCI is a close second.

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These would be even better. A 60 grain lead bullet loaded in a .22 short case with the OAL of .22 LR. I wish CCI would make something like this.

If the LCR trigger is ok.... then maybe get that in 327 Federal Mag (or 22lr) which also allows the use of 2 other .32s of lesser power.

Then select the round she can handle.



And I agree.... pushing a 45 on her is moronic.

ETA: there is a 40gr hollow point High Velocity from RWS that consistently got better penatration than MiniMags. The cheapest place I could find them was mail order at $10 per 50. The MiniMags were the best of the more commonly found flavors and at half the price.....and with the reputation of being very reliable. FWIW.

My wife has pretty severe rheumatoid arthritis, her pistol is a Beretta 76 loaded with round nose minimags. It's a single action carried cocked and locked full size .22 so the recoil is essentially zero.

Wanderling said:

No idea and I am sure she doesn't know it either.

The .22LR is a very soft shooting round, and 5-6 rounds of it can certainly spoil someone's day.

She disliked the pistols she shot enough that it seems she would be averse to carrying these calibers and certainly to practicing with them.

I can't help her since I only own 9mm pistols and none of my friends have a .380 or .32.

I suggested her to rent a larger .380 pistol and see if it is easier to shoot.

Are there any good revolvers in .380 (not special) ? The more I think of it the more it seems racking the slide could be a problem.

We spoke to another co-worker but he's extremely opinionated and is trying to sell her on .45, which is kind of moronic to suggest to a person in her condition if you ask me.

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I would say if she can handle the recoil of a 380 in a revolver, I would rather get a 38 special and use wadcutter target load in it. It will have even softer recoil and will get the job done with penetration to spare.

Helping her find a gun is a great way to add quality to our society.
Thank you for stepping up to help her.

Just be aware that finding a gun is only half of the job.
Now finding ammo that works well is the rest of it.

I have a S&W Model 34, a J-frame snub-nose .22lr.
I've found it's very accurate with Remington Thunderbolt.

I had a Beretta Bobcat that loved Fiocchi High Velocity, lead or plated didn't matter.

Thanks again for being a good Samaritan & good luck finding the ammo that her new gun will love.

I commend you for helping your friend. I can't remember the number of people I have introduced to their first firearm because they wanted a gun for defense and asked me "what should I buy?". That's my excuse to take them to the farm and let them try a few. I will be taking two very attractive women on Tuesday and helping them learn about guns because both are looking for something for HD, both are divorced, and both have teenagers at home.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a PMR-30 for HD. 30 rounds of 22 mag with basically zero recoil. The slide is ridiculously easy to operate. If she doesn't like loud then stay away from it or any other magnum.

I actually just traded a semi to a relative for a Ruger Security Six because the trigger pull on the Ruger was tough on his arthritis. There ARE semis that are easy to rack and there are semis that are rough. There are plenty of revolvers that are difficult to open for someone with bad arthritis. I have very mild arthur that doesn't affect me, yet, so I can understand how a very simple operation like pulling a DA trigger can be almost impossible.

I have a 100+ year old S&W 32 revolver that my brother uses for HD and carries on his hip while cutting grass or dealing with cows. He suffered a stroke a few years ago and is completely recoil averse but didn't want a 22 LR. The 32 has almost zero recoil and he wears it in a leather holster so he feels all "cowboy" on the farm.

I would second the possibility of a 38 with wad cutters. Very mild recoil, ammo readily available.

im recoil averse and like to ccw a ruger lcr 22lr. ruger's sr22 is also excellent but a tad large for ccw. as an alternative i tried magtech's 38 cbc shorts and 38 wadcutters, and found them quite ok, in an airweight s&w snubbie. still i would suggest a 22lr to a newbie so she would do the necessary practice. a hit with a 22lr counts more than any miss.

Racking the slide on a blowback operated (unlocked breech) .380 can be an ordeal for the arthritic (or the less muscular) due to the heavy recoil spring required to keep the slide closed til the bullet leaves the barrel.

Racking the slide on most recoil operated (locked breech) .380 pistols is very easy by comparison.

My son had acquired a 9x18 Makarov pistol for his wife's SD; she found racking the slide very, very hard. I tried it. Reminded me of the Walther PP I once had. Stiff. He bought a recoil operated Ruger .380. She tried it out at the local indoor range. Liked it much better. Much easier to operate.

TruthTellers said:

These would be even better. A 60 grain lead bullet loaded in a .22 short case with the OAL of .22 LR. I wish CCI would make something like this.

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I'm not so sure that would be better because it appears you would lose some oomph in the powder department. You may be better with more gunpowder grain and a smaller solid nose bullet.

From what I saw, a 40 grain solid nose from a higher velocity cartridge penetrated pretty well in tests with phone books and such.

Aquila SSS has oomph.

SSS is a very long heavy bullet in a .22 Short case; SSS overall cartridge length equals .22 Long Rifle. (I believe it was intended for .22 LR conversion units in 5.56 AR rifles.)

The Aguila SSS 60gr bullet at 900 fps (subsonic) gives about 108 ft/lbs (factory lists 950 fps but I don't know what barrel they used). Standard velocity .22 LR 40gr bullet at 1070 fps (close to speed of sound) gives about 102 ft/lbs and more bark.

SSS is NOT "subsonic" in the sense of a CCI CB Long (29 gr @ 720 fps = 32 ft/lbs). It is not a "Zimmerpatronen" like the Colibri (indoor target practice) but a good field round in guns that like it.

Judging from movement of metal swingers and wooden blocks when I tested SSS from my 2" barrel pocket pistol and 6" barrel Ruger MkII, SSS gives very good impact energy from a .22 handgun. Whatever they use in that short case burns well in a short barrel. Also, I don't recall any SSS rounds failing to fire for me over the years; Eley Prime and all that.

I cannot unconditionally recommend the Aguila SubSonic Sniper. I like the Aguila SSS and keep at least a box or two around. Half of my .22s shoot them well. Problems are: some guns give shotgun patterns with SSS rather than rifle/pistol groups and several .22 LR-only guns won't reliable eject the .22 Short cases.

I recommend you try a box and see if:
(a) they are accurate in your gun's barrel and
(b) if your .22 LR gun will reliably eject the .22 Short empty.

It's a trade-off between bullet weight and velocity. Me? I'd go with the lighter bullet and the higher velocity presuming it would generate greater penetration.

The Winchester Super X has a velocity of 1,300 fps and 150 pound foot pounds of muzzle energy.

I believe a 40 grain solid bullet would penetrate deeper with the higher velocity versus a heavier bullet at lower velocity.

Maybe someone has done a comparison out there on youtube land, but since I don't use the .22lr cartridge I am not interested in doing any more research on it anymore. I just wanted to share what I found when I researched it a few years back.

FireInCairo said:

It's a trade-off between bullet weight and velocity. Me? I'd go with the lighter bullet and the higher velocity presuming it would generate greater penetration.

The Winchester Super X has a velocity of 1,300 fps and 150 pound foot pounds of muzzle energy.

I believe a 40 grain solid bullet would penetrate deeper with the higher velocity versus a heavier bullet at lower velocity.

Maybe someone has done a comparison out there on youtube land, but since I don't use the .22lr cartridge I am not interested in doing any more research on it anymore. I just wanted to share what I found when I researched it a few years back.

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Generally speaking, a heavier bullet will penetrate deeper.
But there are a lot of variables.
Try looking up a ballistic gel test on You Tube.

Merle1 said:

Generally speaking, a heavier bullet will penetrate deeper.
But there are a lot of variables.
Try looking up a ballistic gel test on You Tube.

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True, a heavier slower bullet of the same type and energy will always penetrate more than a lighter faster one.

Heavier bullets penetrate deeper. I like the 40gr for 22LR and 22mag. CCI 40gr mini mags or velocitors are the 2 best 22LR for personal defense.

Thinking about it, if I were to recommend a .22 for someone who was physically challenged, from my own gun collection, I would go with the Beretta Model 70S. The slide is lightweight and requires very little in hand strength to chamber a round. Recoil is essentially nonexistant, the trigger is SAO and easy to use, and the thumb safety requires little in the way of effort to place on and off. A very simple to operate and extremely reliable gun to have.

Well, this guy's test indicate the SSS 60 grain penetrates well, though there's no comparison with Winchester Super X:

http://lofigunandgame.com/the-venerable-22-lr-vs-gelatin-part-i-subsonic-rounds/

Taurus makes a 22 mag revolver. Should have a little more oompf.

Many of those quoting 22 ballistics are giving rifle numbers. 22's lose a lot when fired from a handgun. Check Ballistics by the Inch.

If I ever am limited to a .22 for SD, I will use nothing else than a CCi Velocitor. Whether out of a rifle or a handgun. In a pistol its velocity will have dropped so much that it will not expand the HP as much as it would in a rifle, thereby not limiting its penetration much just because its a HP bullet.

I really think for the OP the only options really are a .32 revolver, or a .38 shooting light shooting wad cutters. Even though my pistol is very easy and light to operate, I will rather recommend a revolver to this lady, because malfunctions do occur and if you do not train it will take too long to fix.

My recommendation for her
First choice: .32 revolver
2nd: .38 revolver shooting wadcutters (never shot with them, but most say recoil is very little)
3rd: .22 Magnum revolver (big benefit is extra few rounds over a .32 or .38)
Also, out of a 4'' barrel, a .22 Magnum does not have to stand back for a .32.
A .22 pistol comes last, just because it can cause feeding/loading/jamming issues.
For someone who possibly never shot anything before, start with a revolver. Unless you learn quick and will shoot a lot to practice.

GRIZ22 said:

Many of those quoting 22 ballistics are giving rifle numbers. 22's lose a lot when fired from a handgun. Check Ballistics by the Inch.

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Yep. The link above says it was done in a rifle.

Which is why I mentioned NAA in my ammo comment.


In doing my research, I was a little shocked to learn that some of the top performers in a rifle were not the top performers in short barrels.