Help choosing long range rifle...

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David4516

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I'm thinking about buying and/or building a rifle specifically for shooting at longer ranges. Mainly for fun, shooting at paper or steel targets, not for hunting. I have shot in one "precision rifle" match and enjoyed it, I could picture myself doing it again, and so whatever I buy should probably be suitable for that kind of shooting.

I know that the term "long range" can mean different things to different people. The longest range at the gun club I usually shoot at is 550 yards, so 95% of the time that is furthest I'd be shooting. I'd like to have a setup capable of shooting much farther though (1,000 yards? Maybe even 1,200 yards?), just in case I get a chance to shoot at those distances.

My current setup is OK for fun but it has some serious limitations shooting in a match (where you have limited time). It's a Ruger No. 1 varmint in .223, with a 1:12 twist rate. Thanks to the twist rate, I'm limited to the lighter bullets for this caliber, with lower BCs. The 550 yard range is starting to push the limit of this rifle/cartridge combo, specifically if there is wind. Also the single shot nature of the rifle is a huge disadvantage at the matches. And the lever is difficult to use in the prone position.

Ok so that's my back-story, here are the options I am considering. My budget for the rifle is $1,100 (not much to work with), I'll probably have to come up with a separate budget for the optic (am thinking about the SWFA fixed power scopes, should be about $300.00).

Option 1: Ruger precision rifle, in either .243 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I like that it uses detachable mags that are easy to find.

Option 2: Ruger M77 Target in 6.5 Creedmoor. I love the look of the laminate stock, and I think this will be cheaper than the RPR, actually I'm not sure if there is any advantage to the RPR aside from the magazine thing?

Option 3: AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel. Would buy a complete upper and build the lower myself (probably with a timney trigger).

http://www.jsesurplus.com/65grendel-2.aspx

Option 4: I have an old Mauser, with the 1895 action. Could have a gunsmith put a new barrel and stock on it, would have to be a cartridge based on the 7X57 I think, like .257 Roberts or 6mm Remington. Not sure but I suspect that this would probably cost as much if not more than just buying a new off the shelf rifle. But it would have more character.

What do you guys think? Are any of these options a bad idea? Is there something else I should be considering that isn't on this list?

Thanks in advance...
 
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I really like the looks of the 6.5 bullets on paper, for the BC. The RPR offers modularity with the adjustable stock, but that may not matter if the M77 fits you out of the box. Option 1 or 2 sounds like the best route, based on how much more an adjustable stock and the magazines are worth to you. The Grendel AR seems like a compromise, trying to make the bullet fit the gun, instead of the other way around. I like the idea of accurizing the Mauser, but, I would have to consider what else I would have to modify on the gun further down the road, if I wanted even more precision.
 
I would recommend the Ruger. For the $, you won't get close to an AR that performs at that standard accuracy. But for caliber I would recommend 308- the ballistic data, availability of ammo, and reloading recipes are hard to beat.
 
If he wants to shoot past 800y or so the .308 is very limiting. Not impossible, but limiting.

The RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor is a turnkey solution for what you want to do. Buy it, throw on a SWFA SS scope in some generic rings, load it up with Hornady ELD ammo, and you've got a rig 90% as nice as anything on the line at a PRS match. The remaining 10% comes from very high dollar optics, which you can always add later if you want.
 
I would highly recommend the RPR, it was basically designed to be exactly what you're looking for, a reasonably priced entry into precision rifle style shooting. I have the 6.5 and have really come to like both the rifle and cartridge, it's really an easy shooting, very accurate combo. Good Creedmoor loads have been easy to develop as well. If you don't load, the Hornady ELD match ammo is phenomenal and not too pricey. Prime also sells a match load, (supposedly with rebranded Norma brass), for $24 - $25.

PRS style shooting is pretty popular in my area, and at the match I went to last weekend, 3 of us were shooting 6.5 RPR's, including the guy that won the match (shooting Prime factory ammo). Winds were 30 mph, gusting to 45-ish, with the 6.5 I still had to account for quite a bit of windage, but much less than I would have had to on my .308. As for all the different mags the RPR can use, one of the stages in last weekend's match allowed for as many rounds as you could put on target in a certain time period, so being able to pop in a 20rd pmag was kind of nice.

If you wanted something a little cheaper, the Tikka T3, or newer T3x CTR's are exellent rifles. Currently available in .308 and .260, but I've heard the T3x CTR will be offered chambered in 6.5 CM. Mags are expensive.

I have an SWFA 3-15x on my RPR, 3-9x on my M&P 10, and a fixed 12x on my CTR, all Mil/Mil. I've been happy with all of them, and think they are a great value.
 
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The Grendel AR seems like a compromise, trying to make the bullet fit the gun, instead of the other way around.

I know what you mean, and it looks short/stubby. But I think it would actually work for my application, check out the attached ballistic chart. At 1,200 yards it's still going over 1,000 FPS. I think that's still super-sonic? Not sure at what velocity a bullet goes sub-sonic...

Also just for fun I'm attaching a pic of the Ruger No. 1 I've been using. I must say it's a good looking rifle...
 

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But for caliber I would recommend 308- the ballistic data, availability of ammo, and reloading recipes are hard to beat.

I'm actually not too impressed by the .308, just looking at the numbers anyway. And I don't know that I need a bullet that big/heavy if I'm just shooting paper and steel, I think I want something in a cartridge that shoots either .243, .257, or .264 diameter bullets
 
One thing to consider David. Think about all the knowledge built up over the decades on making accurate .308 loads. That knowledge base is at your fingertips, along with a huge variety of components.

There's a reason .308 is offered as an option in all three of your choices and it's not because it sucks
 
The speed of sound depends on atmospheric conditions, but is in the neighborhood of 1125 ft/s.

Realistically the 6.5 Creedmoor will have an additional 400y of range or so in any given atmospheric conditions compared to the Grendel.

The 6.5 Grendel is arguably one of the worst modern calibers. It doesn't fit in the platform, breaks bolts/extractors, has feed problems, and performs the same or worse at long range as heavy 5.56 or 6x45 do. Both of those calibers are much simpler, more reliable setups.

No mater what the question is, 6.5 Grendel is the wrong answer.
 
I don't doubt the Grendel would give you what you want, but I think the Creedmoor will do it with fewer headaches, and more versatility with loadings.

And I agree; though I have never owned one, the No.1 is one of the best-looking rifles out there.
 
I'm actually not too impressed by the .308, just looking at the numbers anyway. And I don't know that I need a bullet that big/heavy if I'm just shooting paper and steel, I think I want something in a cartridge that shoots either .243, .257, or .264 diameter bullets

For long range, you're thinking exactly right. 6mm and 6.5mm non-magnum calibers, and 6.5mm and 7mm magnum calibers rule the roost. .257 is an oddity with no following.
 
I have an SWFA 3-15x on my RPR, 3-9x on my M&P 10, and a fixed 12x on my CTR, all Mil/Mil. I've been happy with all of them, and think they are a great value.

Thanks for this feedback. I don't know anybody who owns an SWFA scope. I've heard rumors that they're very good especially for the money but I trust the info I get here on THR more than I do other internet sources.

The scope I'm using on the Ruger No.1 is a 15 power Bushnell. It has a mil reticle but the turret adjustments are in 1/4 MOA clicks. This drives me bonkers... so I've ended up just zeroing it, and not messing with the turrets at all, and using the reticle to adjust for elevation. I'm hoping that with a mil/mil SWFA scope that I could actually figure out how to use the turrets...
 
.257 is an oddity with no following

I'm surprised that there aren't more bullet options with better BCs in this bullet diameter. I would think that a 120gr .257 bullet with a high BC would be awesome for shooting at distance. There are some great .257 cartridges out there too like the .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, .25-06, etc. Oddly I've never seen a .25 cal round based on the .308 Winchester case (seems like a no brainer they've made .308 based rounds for just about every other bullet diameter).

Main reason I list .257 as a possible bullet diameter is that if I go with the Mauser option I think .257 Roberts would be a good caliber to convert it to. If I go with any of the other options I think 6.5 makes the most sense...
 
I highly recommend a Pedersoli Sharps with a 32" medium barrel in 45-70. Use black powder. You'll be hooked.
 
I'm surprised that there aren't more bullet options with better BCs in this bullet diameter. I would think that a 120gr .257 bullet with a high BC would be awesome for shooting at distance. There are some great .257 cartridges out there too like the .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, .25-06, etc. Oddly I've never seen a .25 cal round based on the .308 Winchester case (seems like a no brainer they've made .308 based rounds for just about every other bullet diameter).
I think it's just because .264 and .257 are so close together and the 6.5mm calibers got there first and everyone standardized on them.
Main reason I list .257 as a possible bullet diameter is that if I go with the Mauser option I think .257 Roberts would be a good caliber to convert it to. If I go with any of the other options I think 6.5 makes the most sense...
I think the conversion is going to end up being the wrong approach. Not only will it be costly, but you'll lose your existing rifle. Plus the stock may very well not be up to precision accuracy standards, so you'll be buying a stock. And at the end you'll have something odd that no one is making bullets for.

Given the available bullets, I might actually keep it in 7x57 for long range before I'd convert it to a .257 Roberts. Better BCs...
 
At this point based on input here I'm leaning more toward one of the Ruger rifles in 6.5 Creed

I still think that the .257 Roberts would work OK as a long range round (based on attached ballistics chart) despite the fact that the available bullets have less than amazing BCs...
 

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Llama- with a good rifle/scope, a premium round, the required data, and good fundamentals, the 308 can be pushed to a mile. Military snipers at the entry level routinely engage targets out to 900 yards with them using fixed 10x scopes. I've busted clay pigeons at 900, and chicken eggs at 500.
 
Are you fixed on Ruger specifically?

There's a lot of options with bolt guns although you're on the right track with the 6.5 chambering for distance shooting. Tikka, Savage, etc...
 
I had the same questions earlier this year. The helpful folks here talked me into a Savage LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. I am happy with my choice. I had 2K burning a hole in my pocket and a new Vortex Viper Scope. After buying a DMZ mount, brass and bullets, I had enough left over to buy a Beretta A300 and a Savage Mark II 22 rifle.
 
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