DNC Platform Committee Member Says Nobody ‘Should Have A Gun’

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Vern Humphrey said:
Your moral values ALREADY consent to the intentional oppression of other people. By doing nothing, you help evil win.
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Are you seriously trying to imply that the way to defeat evil is by voting it into positions of power? Because it seems to me that you're trying to convince me community action and education is doing nothing, while voting for different flavors of tyrant is taking action.

It just seems so silly once you're out of that mindset.
 
Baron_Null said:
When I have the choice between two evils, I withdraw my consent.

But I have a feeling that's possibly going to earn me even more derision than liberals get around here.
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Not from me. I'm so sick of this, and the choice between the two major party candidates this year is truly trying to choose between the two worst options possible. Hillary openly hates us - no brainer there. As for her competition, we have to ask if the RKBA community really wants to be associated with that. But it seems to me like one of those cases where you might win the battle, yet end up losing the war.

They say evil thrives when good men do nothing, but it also thrives when they do the wrong thing. And we've been doing the wrong thing - choosing the lesser of two evils - for decades. There'll always be another crisis to scare us, another Supreme Court justice who might need appointed, or some other reason why we "must" vote this way.

It's like being in an abusive relationship with partners who have you convinced that you must endure the beatings because you aren't valuable enough to ever find someone better. A guy has to wonder when it's finally going to be time to try and break free of it.
 
Are you seriously trying to imply that the way to defeat evil is by voting it into positions of power?
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Are you seriously trying to imply that the way to defeat evil is by surrendering to it?

If you don't LIKE the candidates, what have you done to get better ones?
 
The largest voting bloc in the country identifies as neither Democrat or Republican. The largest voting bloc in the country also really, really, do not like HRC or DJT.

If this voting bloc wakes up and realizes that they don't have to vote for either evil, then we will see real change.

Until then you will have people trying to convince you that your vote of conscience is actually a spoiler vote, when that is a myth.

To keep this on topic, Hillary is anti-gun, Trump was anti-gun until about 2 years ago.

However, they are both proven liars. But please, by all means, pick one.
 
If this voting bloc wakes up and realizes that they don't have to vote for either evil, then we will see real change.
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How do you propose to MAKE them wake up?

Here's an idea -- offer them better candidates. But that means YOU and I must recruit those candidates. And we have to start now and work for the next 30 years or so, starting at the bottom and supporting good men and women at low levels, and helping them up the ladder.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
Are you seriously trying to imply that the way to defeat evil is by surrendering to it?

If you don't LIKE the candidates, what have you done to get better ones?
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If I had a penny for every time someone has claimed that anything besides explicit support of the status quo is surrendering to evil, I'd have enough money to hold major political office in the US.

If I've done a bad job of explaining it sufficiently, let me make it explicitly clear. I am not concerned with getting better candidates because I don't believe such a thing exists.

I am not concerned with getting a better candidate because I am not only concerned with the candidate, but our entire system of government.

I am not concerned with getting a better candidate because I am more concerned with getting people to see past the lesser of two evils mentality to see the larger systematic problems that we have that preempt majority representation as a method of reform.

You can characterize what I do as surrendering to evil all you want, but at the end of the day my goal is to fight against evil instead of campaign for it and tell people it's their duty to support it.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
Are you seriously trying to imply that the way to defeat evil is by surrendering to it?

If you don't LIKE the candidates, what have you done to get better ones?
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But aren't you surrendering to the inevitability of it when you just hang your head in shame and keep voting it into power time and time again?

And aren't we continuing to empower people unworthy to lead by continuing to elect candidates like the ones we have now to office?

So now here we are.
Some keep telling me I must vote for someone I consider to be about half a step short of a full-blown tyrant. He knows virtually nothing about domestic policy, foreign policy, or defense. He doesn't know the nuclear triad from Schwin tricycle. He loves American workers so much that he employs foreign labor to make his shoddy $40 neck ties. He attacks not just the press, but the very idea of a free press that might dare question him. He's advocated ordering US troops to commit war crimes against the families of suspected terrorists. The list goes on.

But if I just go along with all of this, if I agree to this Devil's bargain, he might let the one right I get a lot of use out of alone.

No. By voting for this candidate, I would be not only allowing evil to triumph, but actively propelling it there. I'd also be forever tying myself and the RKBA to this rhetoric that would certainly hurt our cause for decades to come. Supporting this is not only wrong, but also the path to a long-term loss. Sorry, but no.
 
Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Ha. We ran several 'good men' to be potential shepherds of the executive branch. They were slandered and irreparably damaged by a man who openly bragged of buying his way into office, with incalculable assistance from our beloved news media, because all those so-called 'good men' in the electorate couldn't be bothered to look into anything further than face value (or to paraphrase a movie quote, were so blindly desperate they turned to a man they didn't fully understand to save them)

If you don't LIKE the candidates, what have you done to get better ones?
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Oh-- Oh, I don't even... :fire: We had probably the three or so best candidates on RKBA that have ever bothered in modern times --but they weren't frog-mouthed enough, didn't talk fast enough, and didn't wave their hands around enough while talking, to garner support from this supposed wellspring of Americans who favor freedom & good governance. The ingredients and conditions were perfect for us to dominate this cycle if we were ever going to, and I had high hopes we'd finally humiliate the anti-gun Democrats so badly the issue would fade into obscurity like Prohibition. Instead, it was revealed that we're about 10% of the vote, maybe, with another 5% or so mix of assorted constitutionalists.

That's it. Sobering, depressing, scary, whatever. It is what it is, and we got to make due with it. Make due with the fact that personal freedoms won't be a prominent platform issue for either party, nor enlightened government, for the foreseeable future, and it really doesn't matter much what we 10% or so think on the matter --we've been ignored since nearly the founding, so why should it change?

It's like being in an abusive relationship with partners
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Yeah, a choice between an abusive partner of many years, and a rapist who broke in not even a year ago promising we'd learn to like him given time :rolleyes:

I am not concerned with getting a better candidate because I am not only concerned with the candidate, but our entire system of government.
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Haven't you heard? It doesn't matter what anyone running says, does, or intends, just so long as it's our guy that wins in the end --heck, if only Hillary had run as a Republican, we'd have nothing at all to worry about! :)

TCB
 
But aren't you surrendering to the inevitability of it when you just hang your head in shame and keep voting it into power time and time again?

And aren't we continuing to empower people unworthy to lead by continuing to elect candidates like the ones we have now to office?
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You have misread the message.

I joined the Republican Party in Virginia when I retired from the Army in '85. At that time, Virginia was a solid blue state -- all Democrat. I worked with a lot of other people, and now Virginia has a Republican legislature.

I came to Arkansas in '99 and started working. I tried to find candidates, and failed. So I ran for Congress myself. I didn't win, but a string of people came after me -- and we DID finally win and unseat not just one, but TWO Democrat Congressmen -- actually, they declined to run again, because they knew they'd lose.

I helped the wife of a local physician run for State Senator. When she won, other people were lining up to run in the next election.

Arkansas was a Yellow-Dog Democrat state in '99. Now:

All four Congressmen are Republicans
Both Senators are Republicans
Almost 2/3s of the State House is Republican
More than 2/3s of the State Senate is Republican.
ALL the Constitutional Officers (Governor, Attorney General and so on) are Republicans.
ALL of the 75 County Election Commissions have two Republicans to one Democrat.

And our government is responsive to the people and their values.

We're a long way from the old Clinton Democrat machine.
 
If you think breaking a political machine isn't a significant achievement, you really don't understand politics.

In ARKANSAS the people now select the candidates -- and our elected officials LISTEN to us, because we have flexed our muscles and thrown out a machine that under one corrupt Governor after another, ruled the state since Reconstruction.

But if you disagree, tell me -- how would YOU change the political situation in your state?
 
No doubt the system isnt working for the people and by the people. I dont see much difference between R and D presidents or congressmen. Our last two presidents were almost identical in actions. Neither cared about the peoples wishes, both started, yes started wars without being attacked, and both have massively expanded spending and government intrusion into our lives and rights. The OP was about one party openly declaring war on the THR's users most common interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. That doesn't make the other party a saint but it certainly should keep any THR users from voting for the Democratic Platform. I would certainly prefer Rand Paul or even Ben Carson for their clear understanding of the purpose of the 2nd Ammendment but that didn't happen. Bens answer on the morning show with charlie rose and nora odonell is worth a YouTube search. They were in shock when he explained Daniel Websters thoughts on the subject. He was leading in some polls but when asked about sensible gun laws, he said hunting, sport , and personal protection had nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. It is simply American's gaurantee that we will treat the next tyrant with the same respect that we did the last one. if you vote dnc after they openly declare their intentions, they will claim a mandate. If trump is lying, we at least know he respects us enough to lie about it.
 
Vern, you are doing it. Bushes and Clintons took notice that people are not just falling in line. Change is happening on both sides. The anti gun minions are tireless. they row when the wind is in their face and when it is at their back. Pro 2nd Ammendment patriots sometimes like to enjoy life in times of peace when they don't perceive a direct and imminent assault on their liberty. They play defense when needed but dont play offense as aggressively as the antis
 
OldMac -" ... Pro 2nd Ammendment patriots sometimes like to enjoy life in times of peace when they don't perceive a direct and imminent assault on their liberty. They play defense when needed but dont play offense as aggressively as the antis."
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What a lot of pro-2nd Amendment, pro-U.S. Constitution people do not understand is the far left liberals or "progressives" as they like to refer to themselves, Never, Ever, Disengage.


Beat or thwart them on an issue and they immediately regroup and attack again from another direction, unceasingly.

We forever must be on our guard and fight them.

L.W.
 
What a lot of pro-2nd Amendment, pro-U.S. Constitution people do not understand is the far left liberals or "progressives" as they like to refer to themselves, Never, Ever, Disengage.
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That's right. All politicians, especially the ones in the current administration, love to talk about 'grass roots' and yadda ya...Wars aside, the big three issues I've seen in politics over the last several years seem to be, or have been: obamacare, budget issues, and the 2A (I guess immigration as well). The only real, effective, grass roots action, the one that drove HUGE amounts of folks to flood the mailboxes and inboxes of their representatives, and actually stop this administration cold in their tracks (at least when it comes to federal legislation), was when it came to RKBA. NRA membership, and membership in other pro 2A groups jumped immensely, and any potential fed legislation was stymied and never got out of committee.

Sure, the other topics are talked about all the time in the media, but only RKBA actually had us come out in droves. Politicians talk about the 'will of the people'. That right there should speak volumes about what many Americans really think is important, and I believe it's because they KNOW the importance of the 2A, on a very basic level. It's just what Ben Carson said. Trump says it too, even thought some may not trust him when he says it, which I understand. It is indeed still the 'third rail' of politics.

We MUST keep engaged. Even if Clinton, who is an absolute avowed enemy of the 2A, wins, and tries to nominate Supreme Court judges that feel the same way, we have to keep pressuring our reps to not confirm those people, despite the blah blah whining of the other side about 'stopping progress' or whatever. Heck, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care if 8 judges remain on there and the can gets kicked down the road forever. If an evenly divided SC actually gets enough votes to agree on something, then maybe it was an important enough topic to begin with... The SC has gone political, which flies in the face of its existence. If being in a deadlocked vote means they can't restrict our rights based on their personal political views, then I'm good with it.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
But if you disagree, tell me -- how would YOU change the political situation in your state?
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Oh, my state has problems that we're all going to have to deal with. But it'll work itself out and we'll probably come away better.

The real problem is the national scene.
And I don't have the foggiest clue what to do about it. I don't know what "work"
I could do to show people what they're supporting. Truth is that most of them would vote for a leaky septic tank if it meant a vote against Hillary. That's understandable I guess - I'm no fan of Hillary either. But look at where all the "lesser of two evils" voting has gotten us.

Is this really the choice you want to make?
 
goon said:
Oh, my state has problems that we're all going to have to deal with. But it'll work itself out and we'll probably come away better.

The real problem is the national scene.
And I don't have the foggiest clue what to do about it. I don't know what "work"
I could do to show people what they're supporting. Truth is that most of them would vote for a leaky septic tank if it meant a vote against Hillary. That's understandable I guess - I'm no fan of Hillary either. But look at where all the "lesser of two evils" voting has gotten us.

Is this really the choice you want to make?
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Sorry but between Trump releasing his Supreme nominees and his statements on gun ownership being nesessary in a free society, the choice is pretty damn clear and is not the lesser of 2 evils.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 
Vern Humphrey said:
Who will not vote for the lesser of two evils, automatically votes for the greater of those evils.

The problem is, we should have been working hard twenty or thirty years ago or more. We got where we are by sitting around and complaining while the liberals worked their butts off -- and simply out competed us.
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Reality is, they didn't have to work their butts off very much at all. Times changed. Rural values all but disappeared. In an urban setting, a gun is generally viewed as evil, unless in the hands of a LEO. Requiring a degree to get a decent job, more or less, enabled a whole generation of liberal-leaning anti-firearm educators to brainwash the youth of this country with their propaganda. And those entering the country these days vote Democratic because the pro-firearm party is against anything resembling decent living wages, support for the poorest members of the working class. LOTS going against the pro-firearm party. It amazes me with all this going against them, that a Republican can get elected anywhere these days. Anti-immigrant, not as progressive towards women-- well, you just alienated yourself from a large segment of the voting population. You think a few rednecks like me who enjoy firing a gun every now and again are enough to get you elected?
 
I might also add that most of the population of this country is disengaged and the overall intelligence level of many in this country is alarmingly...well, alarming. I see it day to day, and maybe the "extreme outliers" make more of an impression than the middle of the road folks, or even the extremely brilliant ones I interact with. But, then again, it is this population base that watches TLC and thinks they are"learning". These same folks got a reality television star elected as a major party political candidate.

I am leading up to something...

I WAS going to say that MOST of the population researched all issues and decides what party reflects most their values. But this is giving the general population too much credit in that will they take the time to research? And, it gives the parties too much credit, in implying either party reflects the values or needs of the general population. They don't. They are run by lobbyists, big business, and the wealthy and powerful in this country. They care enough about you in order to convince you to give them your vote. That's it! Unfortunately, the anti-firearm party does a more convincing job than does the other party.

I was planning on stating, however, that most weigh the pros and cons with regards to who to vote for, but they don't. Neither do I, for other reasons. The party that is more pro- firearm will always get my vote, even if on various issues they are way more off the deep end than the other party. But most folks don't vote with the issue of firearms being their primary (or only) agenda.
 
Paul7 said:
I have no idea why any gun owner would vote Democratic.
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Because they (typical check democratic box voters) don't believe it would happen regardless. My father was like that. Plus he had no problem with making military style semi-auto rifles illegal. Gun rights is one of the main single issue items that turn voters, yeah and nay. Now with the Orlando night club attack, we'll see what develops with the DNC. I expect an all out attack on gun rights coming up especially with the ruling in CA 9th District Appeals Court.
 
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