Grease or Oil? Read post first

Grease or Oil for wear points?

  • Grease

    Votes: 10 11.6%

  • Oil

    Votes: 32 37.2%

  • Depends

    Votes: 44 51.2%
  • Total voters
    86
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sawdeanz

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
590
Location
Florida
Saw a discussion about grease brands in the handguns section, but I am curious about the wisdom of grease in general. I started using grease on a CZ I had when I read that is what they need, but since then I've pretty much used it to lubricate everything that slides. Handgun rails, Ar-15 bolt rails, the rails in my vz-58, my bolt action. It just seems to me that it would provide superior protection against wear/galling etc and stays put better. I've not had any problems yet. Just a drop from my syringe on each contact point after a cleaning will do the trick and I haven't run out yet.

But it seems like many other people just use some oil or clp for lubricating those points. I guess I'm looking for any reasons why grease shouldn't be used, or to make sure I'm not doing something wrong. Maybe from a materials standpoint the grease doesn't offer any better lubrication than oil. What do you say?
 
I am not a big fan of grease for firearm lubrication. When you really get down to it, the only diferrence in grease is that it is made up of a thickener. It is better for sealing out water and other contaminants and doesn't move nearly as much as oils do but that also means that it needs to be warmer than oil and, once warm, it increases the cooling time for metals.

All of that giberish aside, I live in Northern Utah. It isn't uncommon for temps to drop well below zero during winter months and grease doesn't perform well in extreme cold. Some handguns of mine won't even cycle properly if I use grease.
 
I've never used grease. It just seems so..... greasy.
So I am asking. How is grease for rust protection?
After I oil my guns, I wipe them down and leave a light coating on the metal.
Do you also do that with grease or do you then oil down the steel after you grease it?
 
I should have clarified better, but I'm just talking about lubrication in this post. I use oil for protection and clp or hoppes for cleaning.
 
I actually ordered a little grease after reading the thread you referenced. It made sense, to me. I got a 1 oz of tetra gun grease via amazon prime, it arrived today, and I threw a little bit of it onto the slide rails of a couple pistols.

Prior to that the only time I used grease on a gun was on a Garand, which specifically calls for grease.

Oil has served me just fine. I don't think I've had any issues or lower performance because of it...not that I would necessarily know. I recently went 850 some rounds through one of my carry pistols without lube or cleaning and I think it would have had no problem doubling that count, at least, without being touched, and that was with "Just oil" (Slip 2000 EWL on a VP9). But a little grease on the slide rails doesn't seem like a bad idea, especially given Southern weather
 
Frame rails that contact the full length of the slide, especially on alloy frames, seem to like grease better, not so much for pistol function as for long term wear. SIG actually recommends grease for theirs, specifically the TW25B.
 
Another thing I had to look up. So the standard definition of grease is oil mixed with soap to make it thicker. As it runs in the bearing, it warms up and liquifies. When it cools off, it gels back up. There may be cold weather issues (arctic) with grease (and oil, for that matter). Common sense would tell us grease stays where you put it. But the high speed of a reciprocating slide may not be the optimal application for grease. After thinking out loud for a paragraph, I'll admit I don't know.
 
I'm in the slide=grease/rotate=oil camp.
Semi auto firearms are not a severe lubrication application compared to machines like automobile or aircraft engines.
If you want the lube to stay in place between uses; apply grease. If it will be reapplied in use; use oil.
Dirt and low temperature are different issues that require different applications.
 
I've never, ever, used grease on a gun. I use CLP or some other thin lube. My guns never rust and never seem to show any wear other than turn lines on revolvers and the marks semiauto barrels always get.
 
I use grease on the hinges of my 12ga O/U. Nothing else.

I use either Ed's Red, CLP or Ballistol on everything else.
 
Depends on what I am doing, really. I use Rem Oil for nearly everything, but I prefer a razor thin coat of Tetra grease on bolt actions. Silky smooth. I tried the grease on the slide of a Beretta 92FS and couldn't tell much difference between it and Rem Oil. I like the grease in areas where there is a pivoting movement like the safety or magazine disconnect on the M1903-A3, AR-15 safety (white lithium on the takedown pins), but when it comes time for the bolt carrier group I go with Remington Dri-lube on the outside. Sorta cracks me up to lube the plastic gun with a dry Teflon. I use CLP on the interior parts/barrel. When it comes to wood stocks, I love Hoppe's oil. It is a lot thicker than Rem Oil and I just think it shines up/soaks in better.

I guess what it comes down to is that I use grease in areas that won't get fouled as easily and oil to penetrate tight mechanical areas or get into areas I can't reach. I used a Q-tip to put a touch of Rem Oil on the contact areas of the workings inside a few S&W revolvers. Breaks like butter.

Honestly, I could do it one way one day and then on another get the urge to switch it up. In the end, I think anything is better than nothing.
 
^^^This^^^
Same reason the military used different grades of lubricants for different environments.

The .243 bolt rifle that sits out in my way back tool shed has RIG grease slathered on the outside metal, a condom rubber banded on the muzzle to keep the spiders out and #2 pencil graphite scrubbed onto the bolt contact points.
It has yet to fail to operate in any and all kinds of weather.
 
MutinousDoug said:
I'm in the slide=grease/rotate=oil camp.
Semi auto firearms are not a severe lubrication application compared to machines like automobile or aircraft engines.
If you want the lube to stay in place between uses; apply grease. If it will be reapplied in use; use oil.
Dirt and low temperature are different issues that require different applications.
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
I used to be in the "slides=grease,spins=oil" camp but I have changed to the following: if the lubricated surfaces need to reliably move quickly, use OIL; if the surfaces do not need to move quickly, OR the lube absolutely must remain in place, use GREASE. Ok, I know, you have to define for yourself what "quickly" means. I kind of lube my firearms like automobiles are lubricated. You would never see grease in the cylinders or crank case and you would never see oil on pinion gears, door hinges, or seat slides.

The rails on my AR bolt carrier and mating receiver get OIL; anything firing pin related gets OIL; slower moving springs usually get GREASE but only if they need lubrication; hammer springs get OIL; action hinge pins get GREASE; pistol slides get OIL; pistol barrels where they touch the collar get a very light amount of GREASE; sears get GREASE.

(I do have a slight inconsistency in that while my AR bolt carrier is oiled because it moves "quickly", my recoil spring, going the same speed of course, is very lightly greased).

Off topic, my magazine springs get either a dry lube like Dry Slide or none at all.

My grease of choice is Militec-1 and my oil is 50% ATF / 50% Mobil 1. My cleaning solvent is Ed's Red without Acetone. Always use a grease and an oil that are compatible with each other.

Lou
 
I was always taught if it rides on a rail, grease it. If it rotates on a pin, oil it.
Click to expand...
Probably not by a tribologist....

Just remember, grease picks up dirt, debris and other stuff and keeps it trapped, oil, being lighter and runny tend to wash out crud when you reapply it.

A lubricant that always stays in place is a double edged sword. The same goes for a lubricant that tends to be more mobile, it tends to not stay where you want it.

This is why wheel bearings are greased, and rotating engine parts are oiled. Wheel bearings are sealed against dirt ingress and do not produce much in the way of wear particles. Engine parts tend to produce more wear particles that need to be flushed out to the bearing areas and trapped in a filter.

Making blanket statements about which type lubricant to use is actually bad information, it always depends on many things.

-How many wear particles are expected to be generated between lubrication renewal?
-How likely is external contamination settling/getting trapped in the lubricant?
-What kind of external contaminants are expected to be seen?
-What is the temperature range expected?
-What are the expected normal forces between the moving parts?
-How sensitive is the system to drag caused by thicker lubricants?
-What kind of sliding speeds are expected?

And just a few more things, just because you put some lubricant on a frame rail doesn't mean it is stays there lubricating forever and ever . . .

Grease works as a lubricant by holding oil in a matrix, usually some form of soap. Think of the matrix as a sponge and it has soaked up some oil, under no-stress conditions, the sponge holds oil, but when placed in between to sliding surfaces under pressure, the oil is squeezed out and performs exactly the same as regular non-grease oil. Once the oil is squeezed out of the sponge much of it runs off, and some is reabsorbed by the matrix, but given time and cycling, the oil in the sponge reservoir will become depleted, and all you will be left with is the matrix, which looks exactly like it did before all the oil was squished out, but is not much of a lubricant.

Also, any lubricant, grease or oil, can be rubbed off a surface. Grease or oil the slide rails of your favorite pistol and work the slide back and forth a few times. Now, separate the frame from the slide and look at the rails, much of the lubrication has been pushed off the actual contact areas and had built up in the non-contact areas. In such cases, a thinner lubricant would be preferable, as it can flow back into the areas vacated during cycling.

Lubrication is unfortunately not something that cannot be summed up in a short pithy sentence.
 
This is why wheel bearings are greased
Click to expand...
Not so much anymore. Over the road trucks and trailers wheel bearings run either in gear oil, 50w synthetic lube or a semi-fluid lube that is both grease and oil.
 
Has anybody ever tried chainsaw bar oil as a firearm lube? It is heavy and very stringy. It looks like it would work very well anywhere grease would work.
 
jimmyraythomason said:
Not so much anymore. Over the road trucks and trailers wheel bearings run either in gear oil, 50w synthetic lube or a semi-fluid lube that is both grease and oil.
Click to expand...
I know of no passenger cars with oil filled wheel bearings.

Rail car wheels were almost never were greased, but ran in oil.

like I said, it can't be summed up very simply...
 
I know of no passenger cars with oil filled wheel bearings.
Click to expand...
Nor do I but OTR vehicles have used oil longer than I've been alive (I'm 63). I would think the semi-fluid currently used would make a great grease-oil combo. It is runnier than 105 Lubriplate but stays where you put it.
 
Probably not by a tribologist....
Click to expand...

Excellent post explaining the differences between oil and grease; particularly the sponge analogy which I thought to be very useful.

Thank you.
 
lysanderxiii said:
Probably not by a tribologist....

Just remember, grease picks up dirt, debris and other stuff and keeps it trapped, oil, being lighter and runny tend to wash out crud when you reapply it.

A lubricant that always stays in place is a double edged sword. The same goes for a lubricant that tends to be more mobile, it tends to not stay where you want it.

This is why wheel bearings are greased, and rotating engine parts are oiled. Wheel bearings are sealed against dirt ingress and do not produce much in the way of wear particles. Engine parts tend to produce more wear particles that need to be flushed out to the bearing areas and trapped in a filter.

Making blanket statements about which type lubricant to use is actually bad information, it always depends on many things.

-How many wear particles are expected to be generated between lubrication renewal?
-How likely is external contamination settling/getting trapped in the lubricant?
-What kind of external contaminants are expected to be seen?
-What is the temperature range expected?
-What are the expected normal forces between the moving parts?
-How sensitive is the system to drag caused by thicker lubricants?
-What kind of sliding speeds are expected?

And just a few more things, just because you put some lubricant on a frame rail doesn't mean it is stays there lubricating forever and ever . . .

Grease works as a lubricant by holding oil in a matrix, usually some form of soap. Think of the matrix as a sponge and it has soaked up some oil, under no-stress conditions, the sponge holds oil, but when placed in between to sliding surfaces under pressure, the oil is squeezed out and performs exactly the same as regular non-grease oil. Once the oil is squeezed out of the sponge much of it runs off, and some is reabsorbed by the matrix, but given time and cycling, the oil in the sponge reservoir will become depleted, and all you will be left with is the matrix, which looks exactly like it did before all the oil was squished out, but is not much of a lubricant.

Also, any lubricant, grease or oil, can be rubbed off a surface. Grease or oil the slide rails of your favorite pistol and work the slide back and forth a few times. Now, separate the frame from the slide and look at the rails, much of the lubrication has been pushed off the actual contact areas and had built up in the non-contact areas. In such cases, a thinner lubricant would be preferable, as it can flow back into the areas vacated during cycling.

Lubrication is unfortunately not something that cannot be summed up in a short pithy sentence.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking time to explain. But I'm a little confused about your car analogy. Oil for example in a car is circulated which accounts for the usefulness of oil flushing out debris, but how much would that affect a firearm's function? Anecdotadly it seems like both grease and oil attract dirt to a firearm. By your description, it seems like the sponge effect is useful but then again I can see how on a sliding surface the grease might get redistributed and not cover all surfaces.

So in your opinion which is the appropriate lubrication for a sliding firearm part (slide rails, bolt carrier group, etc) That part wasn't very clear in your post. Lastly what is your opinion on frog lube and similar products?
 
sawdeanz said:
Thank you for taking time to explain. But I'm a little confused about your car analogy. Oil for example in a car is circulated which accounts for the usefulness of oil flushing out debris, but how much would that affect a firearm's function? Anecdotadly it seems like both grease and oil attract dirt to a firearm. By your description, it seems like the sponge effect is useful but then again I can see how on a sliding surface the grease might get redistributed and not cover all surfaces.

So in your opinion which is the appropriate lubrication for a sliding firearm part (slide rails, bolt carrier group, etc) That part wasn't very clear in your post. Lastly what is your opinion on frog lube and similar products?
Click to expand...

I await his response but I will tell you that I put froglube paste on my AR and then let it sit out in freezing temps when shooting at a friend's house, after firing several hundred rounds without cleaning many weeks prior...the gun got so sluggish it absolutely refused to fire. FTF light primer strikes with an obviously stiff-to-move hammer. I was shocked, but then I was doing that specifically as a test because it was what at least one other person had reported caused their rifle to fail, so I tried...

I have extra froglube I refuse to use now. What a waste of money.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Oil, or Grease
Replies
19
Views
2K
redneck2
redneck2
K
  • Locked
Grease for general lubrication?
Replies
23
Views
2K
ninjaj448
N
Onmilo
  • Locked
Grease versus oil
Replies
7
Views
938
HoosierQ
HoosierQ
S
  • Locked
WASR AK-47: Oil, Grease, or ???
Replies
12
Views
3K
JAGibson187
J
Redlg155
  • Locked
Your preference, oil or grease on frame rails?
2 3
Replies
51
Views
4K
Cthulhu
C
Back
Top