Sling on home defense AR
- Thread starter Balrog
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badkarmamib
Member
Mine always wears its sling. I have 3 kids in the house. If I need a free hand to grab them, I don't want to have to leave my rifle behind. You also never know when you might need your hands free. I know snagging can be an issue, but not so much if you are wearing it.
At IOBC in 1984 doctrine was to remove the sling. Even the silent sling rattles and the swivel up front needs to be taped down for silence. Along with that a sling can and will hang up on any protubing snag in the house - door knobs, hinges, wall decorations, railings, etc. I've seen soldiers hurtling headlong in the bush or urban training only to get snagged violently by their slings and field gear, and if you are following behind it's a pileup.
There are a number of other issues to think thru before coming down to handling the children in the middle of a shootout down the hall of your house, above all it's simply better to stop the fight as early as possible rather than even attempt to train or manage small kids responding to the violence of an armed intrusion. If it comes to that then it's a demonstrated failure of the outer defenses, first and foremost, how did you become a target at all? Much to discuss there but all totally unrelated to guns, so, unfortunately, we don't here.
There are a number of other issues to think thru before coming down to handling the children in the middle of a shootout down the hall of your house, above all it's simply better to stop the fight as early as possible rather than even attempt to train or manage small kids responding to the violence of an armed intrusion. If it comes to that then it's a demonstrated failure of the outer defenses, first and foremost, how did you become a target at all? Much to discuss there but all totally unrelated to guns, so, unfortunately, we don't here.
badkarmamib
Member
@Tirod Agree completely. As a habit, all of my rifles wear slings, just as I have Kydex paddle holsters for all of my pistols (easy on/off, pistol snaps in). I always want the OPTION of freeing my hands, without disarming myself. My defensive rifle wears a 2-point sling that is utilized 3-point style (along the side of the rifle, slung across the front of my chest). When worn, it is harder to snag on things, but leaves me the option to remove my grip at a moment's notice. To each their own, use what you are comfortable with, and train with what you use...
chicharrones
needs more ammo
No sling for me for any home defense long arm. My house is fairly tight in the upstairs areas and the downstairs areas have plenty of things placed around the house by my wife that are just waiting to get snagged or knocked over. My youngest is 17 years old, so I can't just scoop my kids up like toddlers anymore. 
md7
Member
I prefer a quick adjust, two point sling for a defensive rifle. Something like the VCAS. Mainly for retention and the ability to use my hands for other things.
Ymmv
Ymmv
DMK
Member
Same here. I don't want to be stuck in a situation where I need to put my rifle down to use my hands. Also, it keeps the rifle attached to you if you do get in a hand to hand tussle.
Inebriated
Member
Wear the sling or don't have it. It won't snag if you have it on.
I look at a sling as a long gun holster, so my HD rifles all have slings.
I look at a sling as a long gun holster, so my HD rifles all have slings.
Creature
Member
Panzerschwein
member
A rifle without a sling is like a handgun without it's holster.
A home defender AR must wear a sling. When you have to rally the children or otherwise manipulate doors/lights/locks etc., a sling is going to help you do that tremendously.
A home defender AR must wear a sling. When you have to rally the children or otherwise manipulate doors/lights/locks etc., a sling is going to help you do that tremendously.
A rifle sling can aid in retention and carriage. A rifle sling can also get snagged or entangled. The number of different situations in which the rifle mignt be employed is so varied that it is not possible to provide a general rule applicable to all - or even a majority - of possible scenarios so it comes down to a question of personal preference based on what you think is likely to happen in your life.
Shawn Dodson
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Aid in retention? No. You'll get yanked off your feet in short order. Try it with a training partner and learn how quickly you lose.
No slings on any of my home defense long guns. Just something else to manage when I need my mind to work other problems.
No slings on any of my home defense long guns. Just something else to manage when I need my mind to work other problems.
Zerodefect
member
Spur of the moment = no sling.
If I have time to suit up, IE keeping a watch of the perimeter, then sure, grab the sling. (We did camp out and watch a families ranch at night while their son was testifying in a small town court. So it does happen. )
If I have time to suit up, IE keeping a watch of the perimeter, then sure, grab the sling. (We did camp out and watch a families ranch at night while their son was testifying in a small town court. So it does happen. )
DougW
Member
I have a carry sling on the Mini14, but that rifle is down the list on HD weapons. If I need it I would use it of course, but the 870 and a couple of Glocks are the go to's. No sling on the 870.
There should be no need to grab the sling because it should be attached to rifle.
Creature
Member
I'm not sure that hand to hand combat is where I am going in my head when I am reaching for my rifle to fend off bad guys. I reside firmly in the better to have and not need camp.
GBExpat
Member
FWIW ...
If my exclusive inside HD weapon was an AR, I might be tempted to deploy it sans sling ... but it is more likely that I would just secure the loose sling with my left hand.
I am so used to using/carrying a longgun with a sling that it would probably put me off a bit if there here no sling attached.
O'course, I would not select an AR as an exclusive interior HD firearm having relied upon a handgun for that purpose for so many decades. If I were to add an AR to my HD handgun the AR would have a sling so that carrying it would not require a hand.
justice06rr
Member
Yanked of your feet by what?
If someone is yanking your weapon away from you, you already have other issues to worry about as the other person is already in close proximity to you. Consider not having a sling: if the bad guy yanks your weapon away from you, its just as bad or worse.
Having a sling for retention and stability is more advantageous than not. There is a reason that Military and LE/SWAT use slings.
The choice is yours of course.
bangswitch
Member
No sling inside the house, but the sling is over my shoulder and tucked, so I'll have it for outside, if the fight goes there, or if I need hands free. It's a simple matter of one quick-release to attach it when I need it. A long gun is my secondary consideration anyway, for inside use.
Coal Dragger
member
I managed to survive a deployment to Iraq while I was an infantryman in the USMC with a sling on my M16A4 never got snagged on anything in or outdoors. It was a cumbersome 3 point sling too.
The last training class I attended was instructed my Pat McNamara, he retired from 1st SOFD-D in 2005 as a Sgt.Maj. and had multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq not to mention undisclosed places that Delta deploys to. Guess what he teaches the use of and encourages? If you said have a sling on your long gun you are correct. I'll venture that Mac has put more bad guys into a dirt nap than any of us, and a sling on his long gun didn't get him killed in his 20+ year special forces career, 13 of them in Delta.
My go to carbine has a sling on it all the time. No need to find it and put it on. I use a Vickers Combat Application Sling, and modified it with a Tyr Tactical "Sling Ding" on the front. The Sling Ding is awesome by the way, but I was instructed on its use by Mac and he invented it.
My biggest recommendation is to sign up for a class with a good instructor if you want to improve your HD set up, or just have fun and learn new things. Take your carbine to class, burn a bunch of ammo in a constructive way, shake your gear out and see what actually works and what doesn't. Then adjust from there.
The last training class I attended was instructed my Pat McNamara, he retired from 1st SOFD-D in 2005 as a Sgt.Maj. and had multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq not to mention undisclosed places that Delta deploys to. Guess what he teaches the use of and encourages? If you said have a sling on your long gun you are correct. I'll venture that Mac has put more bad guys into a dirt nap than any of us, and a sling on his long gun didn't get him killed in his 20+ year special forces career, 13 of them in Delta.
My go to carbine has a sling on it all the time. No need to find it and put it on. I use a Vickers Combat Application Sling, and modified it with a Tyr Tactical "Sling Ding" on the front. The Sling Ding is awesome by the way, but I was instructed on its use by Mac and he invented it.
My biggest recommendation is to sign up for a class with a good instructor if you want to improve your HD set up, or just have fun and learn new things. Take your carbine to class, burn a bunch of ammo in a constructive way, shake your gear out and see what actually works and what doesn't. Then adjust from there.
Panzerschwein
member
How was the M16A4? I want to build a clone of one someday. Just love that 20" pipe with the quad rail and ACOG. In my branch, we used to carry M16A2s (what I qualified with in basic) but have now gone over almost totally to M4s.
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It all depends on your situation.
Do you have a good amount of property in a lightly populated area and may respond to issues outside?
Or will it be entirely indoors and needing or taking the gun outside a very unlikely scenario?
I have lived places where dogs come attack your animals or livestock and are often 2+ in number when they cause trouble. In the same areas had plenty of wild dog packs formed from owners that took their animals out into the country to set them free, and which did attack joggers and hikers as a group being less afraid of humans than any coyote.
I have responded many many ((some people were constant repeat offenders) times to a couple pitbulls or 150+ pound rottweiler pair a careless neighbor lost control of and like to take a gun out with me. I refrain from using it, but a pair or more of large dogs is a lot harder to manage than a single dog if they get aggressive.
They can be aggressive, and while not a common problem rabies is an issue especially in the country where some owners don't vaccinate or register dogs but they get out and interact with wildlife (finding an infected dead or dying bat on the ground is the most likely source). A neighboring farmer killed his dog when it went rabid, and it was a friendly large golden retriever beforehand. I had shooed it away not long prior, and it was acting strange and was looking bad and was just starting to act aggressive.
Rabies is 100% fatal by the time you have symptoms.
The farmers often ended up killing the wild dog packs when they would go after their livestock, so I never had to do it. Animal control in rural areas is often a joke and takes 30 minutes up to several hours to respond, at which point the animal has done what it came to do and is gone unless you secured it. Which means almost anything that is going to be done had to be done by someone living nearby.
Being able to sling a rifle means you will be able to do things besides just hold that rifle or set it down. It also allows you to transition to a less menacing method of transporting your firearm back to the house, which means the police are less likely to shoot you on sight when they arrive. Though not having a gun by then is a better option if practical.
I have gone back and forth on a sling but do think indoors no sling is a better option. A long gun that can be handled with one hand as needed is an even better option. Many bullpup firearms lend themselves to this, and light weight AR-15s that are not front heavy and balance well are often light enough to remove your support hand sometimes as well, and the pistol grip ergonomics help. Most long guns without a pistol grip are challenging to manipulate without both hands, which means when you have them at the ready you can't do much else. You may be waiting 10-30 minutes for authorities to arrive and could be holding someone at the ready that entire time depending on how things unfold. You will also need to remain in control of the situation, but not scare or get killed by responding law enforcement as they take control of the scene and the criminal.
Do you have a good amount of property in a lightly populated area and may respond to issues outside?
Or will it be entirely indoors and needing or taking the gun outside a very unlikely scenario?
I have lived places where dogs come attack your animals or livestock and are often 2+ in number when they cause trouble. In the same areas had plenty of wild dog packs formed from owners that took their animals out into the country to set them free, and which did attack joggers and hikers as a group being less afraid of humans than any coyote.
I have responded many many ((some people were constant repeat offenders) times to a couple pitbulls or 150+ pound rottweiler pair a careless neighbor lost control of and like to take a gun out with me. I refrain from using it, but a pair or more of large dogs is a lot harder to manage than a single dog if they get aggressive.
They can be aggressive, and while not a common problem rabies is an issue especially in the country where some owners don't vaccinate or register dogs but they get out and interact with wildlife (finding an infected dead or dying bat on the ground is the most likely source). A neighboring farmer killed his dog when it went rabid, and it was a friendly large golden retriever beforehand. I had shooed it away not long prior, and it was acting strange and was looking bad and was just starting to act aggressive.
Rabies is 100% fatal by the time you have symptoms.
The farmers often ended up killing the wild dog packs when they would go after their livestock, so I never had to do it. Animal control in rural areas is often a joke and takes 30 minutes up to several hours to respond, at which point the animal has done what it came to do and is gone unless you secured it. Which means almost anything that is going to be done had to be done by someone living nearby.
Being able to sling a rifle means you will be able to do things besides just hold that rifle or set it down. It also allows you to transition to a less menacing method of transporting your firearm back to the house, which means the police are less likely to shoot you on sight when they arrive. Though not having a gun by then is a better option if practical.
I have gone back and forth on a sling but do think indoors no sling is a better option. A long gun that can be handled with one hand as needed is an even better option. Many bullpup firearms lend themselves to this, and light weight AR-15s that are not front heavy and balance well are often light enough to remove your support hand sometimes as well, and the pistol grip ergonomics help. Most long guns without a pistol grip are challenging to manipulate without both hands, which means when you have them at the ready you can't do much else. You may be waiting 10-30 minutes for authorities to arrive and could be holding someone at the ready that entire time depending on how things unfold. You will also need to remain in control of the situation, but not scare or get killed by responding law enforcement as they take control of the scene and the criminal.
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Coal Dragger
member
The M16A4 was not bad. This was in late 2003 when we were issued the new rifles, through deployment ending in fall of 2004. Now all the USMC grunts run M4's transitioning to the M4A1 and the HK M27 IAR.
Our A4's were made by FN and replaced Colt M16A2's. The Colts had nicer machining on the upper and lower receivers, and notably better triggers. My best qualification score was with my brand new (like I took my rifle out of the plastic wrapper new) A4 though, probably attributable to a new barrel with a pristine throat and bore.
The Knights Armament quad rail was durable, but heavy and did not free float the barrel. The included Knights Armament rail panels were worthless and stupid. All kitted out with a sling, scout light, PEQ-2, optics, and a loaded magazine it made for a heavy bugger.
I've been tempted to build an A4'ish rifle with a 20" bbl. I would be more interested in a "modernized" A4 though. To begin with I'd ditch the non free floating quad rail and choose something a bit lighter like a Centurion or Geissele rail that have very secure repeatable mounting to an extended length barrel but. Since the .mil looks to be going M-Lok I probably would too.
For a barrel I'd love something cold hammer forged and not in the government profile, maybe a nice tapered medium contour to the gas journal, tapering to around .625" near the muzzle with a flare out for the muzzle device. The goal would be to get stiffness and heat handling ability back towards the chamber where it belongs for better accuracy, while adding little weight to the actual barrel compared to the idiot government profile. I'd even take a full medium contour like offered by Criterion barrels. I'd prefer this to be chrome lined and hammered out of CMV 4150. I would then install a Surefire Warcomp on the muzzle, I have one on my Colt SOCOM II and really like it.
I'd also ditch the ACOG, but may very well stick with Trijicon and stick a VCOG on top or some other 1-6 set up, maybe even a Leupold LCO and D-EVO.
Undecided on a fixed stock or a VLTOR A5 system, probably go A5 since it was developed to do both rifle and carbine at the behest of the USMC and it flat out works.
The only other deviation would be a Geissele SD-C trigger. I love Geissele 2 stage triggers, and like the flat faced triggers so I'd get another one for this build.
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