Is the Taylor's & Co. brand better than Howell ?
Howdy
One is not better than the other. But if you want six shots, the only game in town is the one sold by Taylors. Way back, I don't remember when, Ken Howell designed the six shot, 45 Colt cylinder for the 1858 Remington. Because of the distance from chamber to chamber, dictated by the distance from the center of the cylinder to the center of the bore, it was not possible to make a six shot 45 Colt cylinder because the rims would overlap. Howell had the brilliant idea to angle the chambers ever so slightly, less than 1/2 of one degree, so that the rears of the chambers were slightly further apart than the fronts. Presto, now six chambers could be be bored and the rims would not overlap. Howell had the further brilliant idea to patent his design.
Before anybody gets their pants in a twist, no, chambers angled less than 1/2 of one degree are no problem at all, I have two of these things and they are easily the most accurate 45 Colt revolvers I own, more accurate than my Colts, clones or Rugers. More on that in a bit.
Howell made the cylinders for Taylors. His company was called R&D, and Taylors was the exclusive distributor. Anybody else selling this design was buying them from Taylors. A number of years ago Howell sold the rights to his patent to Taylors, I have no idea why. Taylors found another company to make the cylinders, and because they own the patent rights they are the only company that can make this six round cylinder with the angled chambers. Walt Kirst made a cylinder that was five shots, with a 'dummy' chamber of smaller diameter taking up the space where a sixth chamber would go. By spacing his chambers a little bit farther apart Kirst was able to get the rims to not overlap, but he was limited to five chambers.
Just a few years ago Howell got back into the conversion cylinder business with his Howell Old West Conversion Cylinders company, but because he sold the rights to his patent he cannot offer a six shot 45 Colt cylinder for the 1858 Remington. Some of the other replica models have larger cylinders, so he can offer six shot 45 Colt cylinders for them, but not for the 1858 Remington. Same with a 38 caliber Remington, six chambers fits fine. Beware when you go to the Howell web site because he does offer a six shot 1858 cylinder for
44 Colt, not 45 Colt. I have no idea why somebody would want one of these unless they were going to go to the trouble to load 44 Colt with heeled bullets.
As I said, I have two of these. One is an old EuroArms Remmie that I bought back in 1975. I also have a Stainless Uberti 1858 that I bought used for a very good price and it came with the Taylors (R&D) six shot conversion cylinder for the same price as a used cartridge gun, so it was a great deal.
As far as the cost is concerned, that is up to you. With my old EuroArms Remmie I bought it so long ago that I figured the value had been amortized down to about nothing, so paying I think $190 for the cylinder about ten years ago or so it was like getting a nice new cartridge revolver for $190.
Here is my old EuroArms Remmie with it's conversion cylinder in place.
A side note is that when I bought my cylinder, the recesses for the rims were not large enough to accept the slightly larger diameter rims of 45 Schofield. I had a smith open up the recesses slightly for Schofield rims, and while he was at it I had him cut the 'view windows' through to the outside of the cylinders so I could see which chamber was empty. View windows are now standard on these cylinders, but I am not taking credit for that. I believe they will also accept 45 Schofield rims now, but I am not sure about that.
I mentioned this is the most accurate 45 Colt revolver I own. The reason is the chambers are more precisely machined than the chambers of any of my other 45 Colt revolvers, I wrote the list earlier. In fact, when I load up 45 Colt cartridges, I use this conversion cylinder as my cartridge gauge. If a finished round drops into the chambers of this cylinder, I know it will fit into the looser chambers of any of the others. If however a crimp is a little bit bulgy, it will often drop into a Colt or Ruger chamber, but the conversion cylinder will reject it. That's why it is my cartridge gauge and I believe that is why it is so accurate.
I love Hickock 45's videos too, but I want to correct him on one thing. No, there are no springs in the firing pins of these cylinders. That is why it is inadvisable to dry fire them. Without a primer to arrest the travel of the firing pins, they can get wedged in place if the hammer strikes them. Trust me on this.
Hickock 45 is correct about the nomenclature. The old way to measure caliber was by bore diameter, so the Remingtons and Colts were called 44s, but once the rifling was cut, the groove diameter was closer to 45. I slugged the barrel of my old EuroArms Remmie long ago, and if I recall correctly it was .449. A little bit tight for 45 Colt, but I have never had any trouble with it. I recently had the opportunity to slug the barrel of an original Colt, and despite the fact that the rifling was seven grooves, I was able to determine that the rifling grooves were pretty much right about .451 or so.
Reloading one of these things is much simpler than Hickock 45 makes it look, you just a have to get used to it. As he says, there is no wedge to have to drive out. Once you are used to it, you put the gun at half cock, roll the cylinder slightly clockwise as viewed from the rear, to depress the hand, and the cylinder pops right out. With some of the old Remmies, the reloading lever can be used to pop the empties out, it fits right into the chambers. With others, the latch is a little bit too wide and the end of the lever will not enter the chambers. I can unload my Uberti with the loading lever, but I keep a brass rod around to pop out the empties with my EuroArms Remmie. Then once the cylinder is reloaded, with the hammer still at half cock you roll the cylinder back in to depress the hand and it pops right back in. All told it is quicker than reloading a SAA one at a time through the loading gate.
Yes, Kirst made the cylinder that could be loaded one at a time once you cut a groove in the recoil plate, so you could reload without removing the cylinder. But because of the vagaries of federal laws regarding modifying a Cap & Ball revolver to cartridges, I bought the Taylors version. Because I have made no changes to the frame of the gun, once I pop the cartridge cylinder out and pop the C&B cylinder back in, it is not a Firearm anymore. Those were my thoughts anyway. That is also why you can have these shipped right to your door, it is only a part.
Regarding who to buy them from: Yes, sometimes there will be a minor amount of fitting needed. When you get right down to it, it is pretty amazing that these cylinders can be made at all, given the manufacturing tolerances of the original revolvers. You do have to buy the one for your specific Remmie, Uberti or Pietta. And that gets me to why I bought mine directly from Taylors.
Taylors had a policy back then that if you sent them your gun, they would fit a cylinder to it for no charge. YES, NO CHARGE. Often fitting only means taking a dremel tool to the frame to carve out a little bit of clearance for the bottom of the cylinder. But my old EuroArms Remmie was an unusual case. I shipped them the gun and then had a conversation with the gunsmith at Taylors. He told me he took a Pietta cylinder that did not have the bolt stop slots cut into it yet. He took my gun, with its C&B cylinder in it, and put it on some sort of fixture that measured exactly where the slots were on my cylinder. Then he duplicated the cuts on the 'virgin' cylinder, matching the positions exactly. He then shaved a tiny bit of steel off the front of the cylinder, so it would fit just right into my gun. After he had the raw front of the cylinder reblued I had a cartridge revolver with a cylinder that fit my gun perfectly, with no modifications at all to the frame, so it could go back to being a non-firearm with ease. I repeat, I was not charged for this service. I paid to have my gun shipped to Taylors, and of course I paid for the cylinder. They shipped me back my gun, on their dime, with the C&B cylinder in place so it was not a firearm and could be shipped directly to me. The Conversion cylinder was in its own box inside the same package with the C&B revolver.
So if I was going to buy one of these today, I would check with Taylors to see if they are still offering that service. You will not get that service from Midway or anybody else.
Whether it's worth it to you to convert the gun is up to you. It was really cheap for me to convert an old gun.
By the way, I only shoot Black Powder cartridges though my converted Remmies, but the instructions with the cylinder plainly say that 'Cowboy' 45 Colt Smokeless ammo can be shot from them. The cylinders are made from modern arsenal steel. The cylinders are what take the pressure of the cartridges firing, not the barrel, despite the fact that most of these guns say FOR BLACK POWDER ONLY right on the barrel.
