Steel Case Ammo Question

kcofohio said:

Does the cheap Tulammo in 9mm have a steel core? I didn't realize that. I thought it was mainly in the surlpus ammo.

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The steel case ammo imported into the US does not have a "steel core" and is not any more capable of passing thru barriers as a result. What it does have is a "bi-metal" jacket instead of a copper jacket. The bi-metal jacket has iron as one of the metals, is not quite as soft as copper, and can spark more depending what the bullet hits. Indoor ranges are concerned about the possibility of such a spark starting a fire from all of the unburned powder and paper target remains that tend to accumulate. Another factor is that some ranges sell the dropped brass and steel casings are one more thing not desired.
In these parts, aluminum with either copper plated bullets or nylon/polymer coated bullets is the same price as the steel case ammo. Take a gander at Walmart for the Federal Aluminum cased ammo.

wally and Tcruse, thank you for the clarifications. My OP was in response to the first couple of replies to the OP. As I have only had a very limited experience with steel cased ammo. It makes sense that for a cheap ammo, they would go cheap with the jacket also. But with the term steel core, I think of AP. Since noboby claims Tulammo is AP, I had to ask.

This is the answer ranges have told me in the past. Those were the same ranges that wanted to forbid you from picking up your own brass as well. Another way of referring to them is "ranges that lost my business aftera first visit."

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This has been my experience as well. I even had a range official tell me to put the Blazer aluminum cased ammunition back in the bag and not shoot it.

My only two complaints with steel cases:
The lacquer build up in the chamber.
The inevitable, nasty, smoky, ammoniumy gases upon discharge. Most of your steel cases ammunition is of eastern European manufacture and it's always been my experience that it is really dirty.

Omaney said:

The lacquer build up in the chamber.

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Only if the improper lacquer is used.

GAU-8s have never had a lacquer build-up problem....

lysanderxiii said:

Only if the improper lacquer is used.

GAU-8s have never had a lacquer build-up problem....

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It seems that many have gone to a polymer based coating rather than lacquer. That fixes most of the problem. Also, we are all guilty of thinking of all steel case as "cheap" eastern block imports when some of it is not. Winchester now has a "bulk" pack with steel case ammo (USA Forged tag) and I think Hornady Match ammo is also steel cased. Also, some of the steel cased is not coated but nickel plated also.

Also, you might note that Tula also makes brass cased ammo that is first rate. Much is sold as Tula Brass. Tula is one of the largest and most respected ammo makers in the world. Many countries do not consider brass cased ammo as good.

MistWolf said:

Does anyone really think some ranges won't allow steel cases as part of a conspiracy to keep you from collecting your brass?

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Prevent collecting? No. Most people don't rake & take to begin with. However, because most people leave their brass behind, and because it is multiples times the value of steel, they may use their range rules to ensure that they are getting the more valuable brass.

It is a conspiracy? No. It's a private business on a private property, so unless we live in a socialistic state, then the owners have every right in the world to do this. It's also possible that the amount they charge per lane is influenced somewhat by the averaged amount of brass that they collect per shooter/hour.

cdk8 said:

Prevent collecting? No. Most people don't rake & take to begin with. However, because most people leave their brass behind, and because it is multiples times the value of steel, they may use their range rules to ensure that they are getting the more valuable brass.

It is a conspiracy? No. It's a private business on a private property, so unless we live in a socialistic state, then the owners have every right in the world to do this. It's also possible that the amount they charge per lane is influenced somewhat by the averaged amount of brass that they collect per shooter/hour.

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Yes, if you do not like the policies at a range go elsewhere.
I did have a conversation with the range manager at my local range on the subject. Basically they are thinking about selling the brass that is not picked up to re-loaders. They wanted input from their customers that reload on the subject. I think it is a good idea rather than selling it to someone as scrap.

Some indoor ranges do NOT allow steel case ammo, because any cases in front of the line are THEIRS. They do not want to be bothered with steel. I haven't been to this range in several years, but I was grateful they allowed me to keep brass in back of the line.

Now really the only time this policy bugged me was when I took my AK. Not buying or reloading brass 7.62x39 (yet!) - shoot outdoors 100% now

Still wondering why a big magnet can't separate the two in a matter of seconds........

Tcruse said:

Yes, if you do not like the policies at a range go elsewhere.
I did have a conversation with the range manager at my local range on the subject. Basically they are thinking about selling the brass that is not picked up to re-loaders. They wanted input from their customers that reload on the subject. I think it is a good idea rather than selling it to someone as scrap.

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They absolutely should.

IMO, if they want to give back to their customers, they could first calculate the amount of brass they take in per-customer, per-hour, then figure out how much more on average they will make selling the brass directly to reloaders, and then (upon verifying that they are able to sell what they intend to sell at the intended volume for the intended price) take that figure and put a portion of it towards offsetting the range pricing. They would increase their own income, the price of range usage could be lowered slightly, and this could potentially strengthen the relationship with current customers and also attract new customers. Another option could be putting some of the extra income towards facilities improvements, which could also attract new customers and convince current customers to visit more frequently. FWIW, this may sound a little silly given the amount of income probably wouldnt be massive, but I'm a methodologist and I develop marketing & customer satisfaction surveys and time after time again I see how small things like this go a very long way in positively impacting business.

Derek Zeanah said:

This is the answer ranges have told me in the past. Those were the same ranges that wanted to forbid you from picking up your own brass as well. Another way of referring to them is "ranges that lost my business after a first visit."

That said, I avoid steel-cased ammo. As long as there are reasonably priced alternatives I'll continue to do so, but lots of folks run into zero problems with them.

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Yes Sir! I have 2 local ranges that one the guy will stand in the glass window and stare at you. He claims he used to be a cop/swat/firearms instructor but he's only about 45yo so I have a hard time believing that, if you pick up one piece of brass he's banging on the window. I went in there one day and was told in a crappy way no steel cases and I needed to take my work handgun off my belt and put my duty belt in the truck because half us cant shoot anyways (section 8 housing authority/armored truck guard) let alone drawing from a holster. I had already paid and shot my 100 rds AND picked up MY brass and told them ill never be back. there is another range that the guy stands in the 30 lane stalls with you and immediately sweeps up the brass and same thing they tell you your not allowed to take it. um-excuse me its my property and I paid for it and paid your $7 an hour price hike than any other range. the comment I got was we sell it and we don't make any money of you using the range just when you buy our bullets and rent our guns so we make you leave the brass so we can sell it. I told the guy f//// that I reload and im taking my property-500rds of various calibers. the stalls are setup where all the cases landed right by me. he says how do you know its yours, make sure your only picking up your brass and not someone else's. I never went back there either.

Now I belong to an outdoor private range that's open 9am-930pm 7 days a week and I pay $60 a year and they even allow me to dig through the brass buckets. I've found 1k 9mm cases doing this and another guy a 5 gal bucket of 223 cases. ive only been told at one range this certain brand of ammo is banned but never steel cases like tula. they mark up ammo x2 so this also could be a way to keep you from bringing $8 box of ammo and buy their $15 ammo.

TomJ said:

I was at a range that I had never been to this morning with a family member. I started using 115 grain 9mm Tulammo, when he informed me they don't allow steal cased ammunition. I wasn't a big deal, as I had other ammo and switched to it and don't often use Tulammo anyway, but I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light as to why this would be prohibited. He's a relatively new shooter and had no idea.

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I personally would have asked the range. While we all can guess and surmise, it would be interesting to know what excuse the range gives. I'd assume it's a multiple reason answer. As many have said collecting the brass for resale is probably the main reason, as for the why not use a magnet, they probably do, but still have to dispose of the steel cases, and insisting one only use brass means more brass to retrieve and less steel to toss. When we're talking tens/hundreds of thousands of spent cases, the lower the percentage of steel, the more money they make. Could be also that the use of bulk steel case brass may mean less ammo bought from them at a high profit margin. Folks like the OP that show up the first time with a bunch of steel cased, with the intentions of shooting for an extended period of time, are probably going to buy some of the ammo the range has for sale, instead of going home without shooting. I doubt very much if safety has anything to do with it, it's all about profit.

Every range has its own rules. If you don't like them, try another range. Personally I won't generally go to ranges that 1. Won't let me keep my brass if I so desire, 2. Don't allow reloads or outside ammo.

Well, as to rules, some might makes sense, that needs to be factored into the equation.

If you are shooting in drought dried country at a range with steel targets or frames, maybe steel jacketed ammo is not the best choice.....

lysanderxiii said:

Well, as to rules, some might makes sense, that needs to be factored into the equation.

If you are shooting in drought dried country at a range with steel targets or frames, maybe steel jacketed ammo is not the best choice.....

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As the shell casing doesn't strike the target and the projectile is still softer metal/lead, why would this make any difference?

cdk8 said:

As the shell casing doesn't strike the target and the projectile is still softer metal/lead, why would this make any difference?

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Steel jackets can still cause sparks if they hit a steel frame or target. Out west, in dry country, this can be a problem if you allow dry brush to encroach around the targets.

"Personally I won't shoot steel cased ammo UNLESS the gun was designed for it.
I don't feel like replacing any extractors"

The money saved from shooting 140 rds. of .223 steel case versus brass case will pay for a new AR extractor. Ten minutes and I'll be good to go.

commygun said:

"Personally I won't shoot steel cased ammo UNLESS the gun was designed for it.
I don't feel like replacing any extractors"

The money saved from shooting 140 rds. of .223 steel case versus brass case will pay for a new AR extractor. Ten minutes and I'll be good to go.

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I don't have an AR, it's a Mini-14, not so simple....

Merle1 said:

I don't have an AR, it's a Mini-14, not so simple....

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I mini extractor is $14 on ebay. Brownells had them for $6 but shipping can be high. Replace them in minutes , too. It's really not difficult.

illinoisburt said:

I mini extractor is $14 on ebay. Brownells had them for $6 but shipping can be high. Replace them in minutes , too. It's really not difficult.

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HMMM, I was expecting to have it sent back to Ruger...... Thanks for the info!

Merle1 said:

HMMM, I was expecting to have it sent back to Ruger...... Thanks for the info!

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Not saying extractors won't break since mine did. However it was an original part on my 1983 rifle and have been shooting nothing but steel for the past 10 years or so as its cheaper than my plinker reloads. Put in new extractor and spring set as well. (Got 2 spares just in case and get up to the shipping coupon.)

BTW I usually buy a few 500 round cases of steel 223 and 762x39 per year. Never an issue with 762x39 from any manufacturer. Cannot say that for 223. Have found a plenty of variation. The current lot of 62 gr fmj tula with the zinc bullet has been surprisingly accurate with good ejection. 55 grain fmj Ulyanovsk was awful - low power, case heads tore off, poor accuracy. Older wolf of all flavors were inconsistent, some noticeably more powder than others in same box. All of the cheap hollow points I have tried tumble like fmj then break apart. Prior to the new fusion and hog hammer ammo, found Barnaul 62 grain softpoints to be good hunting bullets for bigger animals as they penetrated deep and mostly hold together.

Back to the OP I never had any issues with steel cases pistol ammo other than don't reload them. Seem to operate fine in 9mm and 45. I think the ranges can do as they please whatever their reason may be. There isn't really that much cost difference in a few boxes of plinking ammo steel vs brass. It makes a difference when you get into 1000s of rounds, especially with rifle cartridges.

MistWolf said:

Does anyone really think some ranges won't allow steel cases as part of a conspiracy to keep you from collecting your brass?

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I've had several ranges with 'no brass collecting' policies. Most, if not all, were easy enough to deal with when i explained that I wanted my brass for reloading. Interestingly enough, most military ranges make it a major issue if a shooter has any spent brass in their pockets. Why, I don't know. I've asked and never got a good answer. Seems some ranges follow the same rule for unknown reasons.

herkyguy said:

. Interestingly enough, most military ranges make it a major issue if a shooter has any spent brass in their pockets. Why, I don't know. I've asked and never got a good answer. Seems some ranges follow the same rule for unknown reasons.

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While I'm not 100% certain, my guess would be that the military has a civilian contractor that "recycles" the brass. So that could dictate who is allowed access to fired casings.

herkyguy said:

I've had several ranges with 'no brass collecting' policies. Most, if not all, were easy enough to deal with when i explained that I wanted my brass for reloading. Interestingly enough, most military ranges make it a major issue if a shooter has any spent brass in their pockets. Why, I don't know. I've asked and never got a good answer. Seems some ranges follow the same rule for unknown reasons.

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military ranges sell their brass. Brassbombers.com sells Military rifle and pistol.