CCW - Professional dress

I'd think a lab coat would be appropriate for a vet, and that could allow you carry IWB behind about 4 o'clock with many good-sized guns.

Larry

primalmu said:

Hey guys, I need some advice. I never thought I'd say this being a veterinarian, but there has been some recent events involving a former employee that have the staff very worried about a potential violent situation. It is bad enough that one of them is actually bringing her handgun to work just in case.

I am trying to figure out the best way I can carry at work, but IWB is not an option. I have to wear professional dress (i.e. dress shirt and tie), so my options are limited. I have a Ruger LC9s Pro that I bought a pocket holster for, but find that its too tall to fit in my back pocket.

I'm looking for some opinions on how best to carry at work. Shoulder harness under dress shirt? Ankle carry? I'm also a big guy, so that makes it a bit more difficult to pull off. Any suggestions would be welcome.

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Doc, I'm 70 and, in my experience, the fights you win are the fights you avoid. If you and your staff have concerns serious enough for you both to consider being armed at work, I'd suggest contacting a lawyer and the police for a restraining order/order of protection from the courts. I'd also suggest the hiring of a security guard to protect you.

If you can't find a better solution, how about a lab coat or a short white coat (like those med. students wear) under which you have either a useful shoulder holster or an IWB/OWB with a 9mm. I've found a Springfield XD-s an easy to conceal firearm.

Good luck and good wishes,

Harry

primalmu said:

I am trying to figure out the best way I can carry at work, but IWB is not an option. I have to wear professional dress (i.e. dress shirt and tie), so my options are limited.

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I'm not sure why that would eliminate IWB carry. There are lots of "tuckable" IWB holsters that should work. For a small revolver, something like the Mitch Rosen "Workman" should work.

Mitch Rosen http://mitchrosen.com/products/holsters/inside-waistband-holsters/

I have a Ruger LC9s Pro that I bought a pocket holster for, but find that its too tall to fit in my back pocket.

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Aren't pocket holsters designed for the front pocket? Check Mitch Rosen link above for pocket holsters, but here is Aholster's pocket holster.

Aholster http://www.lefthandholster.com/pocket-aholster.html

Shoulder harness under dress shirt?

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I don't think that is the concept behind a shoulder holster. However, Kramer has an undershirt holster if that is what you desire.

Kramer http://www.kramerleather.com/products.cfm?categoryID=21

I'm also a big guy, so that makes it a bit more difficult to pull off.

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I see this often, but don't understand it. There is a lot more of you relative to the gun than a small guy. It should be easier for you to not only carry, but conceal a gun, than for a small/slim guy.

First off I agree with Harry's post above, but beyond that...

If you're having to dress in slacks and a button up with tie, why not add a blazer (suit jacket)? With the addition of that you could almost carry anything IWB or OWB.

FWIW I carry a LC9s IWB and it's extremely concealable with even light clothing. Here's an example of medium casual clothing for this time of year...

This might be a good option, worn under a tucked shirt. With an appropriate sized pistol, and worn closer to the belt it is almost invisible. Your draw stroke would include untucking your shirt.

primalmu said:

My biggest issue with IWB is that when worn at 3-4 o'clock it is very obvious. Blazers are NOT an option as a veterinarian.

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Well if a blazer or lab type coat aren't an option then pocket carry would be my suggestion, although I'm not a fan of it. An LC9 is a bit on the large size for this task but it's possible. I would strongly advise against ankle carry for a primary as that is meant to be a last resort back up type of carry.

So what exactly is this "smart carry" holster you've ordered and how does it help bypass the issues you've mentioned?

After a quick google search it seems that the "smart carry" is similarly gimicky to the urban carry style of "holsters".

Hey, if it works for you I'm not going to bad mouth. But I would definitely advise practicing with that type of holster as it is not a normal configuration that is easily accessible.

primalmu said:

I am trying to figure out the best way I can carry at work, but IWB is not an option. I have to wear professional dress (i.e. dress shirt and tie),

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What holster do you have now? What holsters have you tried?

Wearing a shirt and tie does not preclude IWB carry. It does, however, require a tuckable holster. One thing I have learned is that what works for one person wont necessarily work for another. The second thing I have learned is you need to experiment with different holsters and positions until you find what works. Unfortuantely this generally requires spending money to try different setups. There is a reason most people who are more than causally into guns have a drawer with a number of different holsters. I have probably 4-5 different holsters I went through before finding something that works most of hte time for me. I have to regularly wear professional clothing and generally the smallest gun I carry as a primary is a G26 and often carry a G17. My friend wears a shirt and tie to work everyday and every day carries a G19. He uses a raven vanguard 2 holster to carry the G19 AIWB and it disappears. He works somewhere that it is both legal to carry and permissible by policy but not particularly socially acceptable to do so. I often do the same with a G17.

An LC9 is about as small a gun as you can get without really sacrificing more capability than I care to. It is a small enough thin enough gun that I would think there is some sort of tuckable holster out there that would work for you. AIWB is the place that a gun conceals best for me. It allows me to carry a duty size gun. Some people with a different build may find it doesn't work as well. I'd suggest looking for some tuckable holsters and trying a few out before you discount the possibility of IWB carry.

Primalmu, being caught by surprise offers a greatly reduced chance of defense. Have you considered having your door modified so that people need to ring in in order for the door to be electronically opened?

I have to wear professional dress at work and if I'm not wearing a covering garment (suit jacket, blazer, sweater), I appendix IWB carry my Walther P99 in a High Noon Hidden Ally with my shirt tucked in over it. as long as I'm wearing a black belt, folks are none the wiser.

Are you the owner or are you an employee? And if you're an employee, is your boss ok with carry at work? I ask because if your boss isn't ok with carry you have to conceal your gun much more carefully than if your boss is ok with it and a minor incidence of printing won't get you fired. If you are the owner or your boss is ok, you're hiding the gun from customers which is a pretty low standard as they're not usually going to notice a gun on a vet unless it is VERY obvious, which means you can carry almost anything. If your boss isn't ok with it, now you're hiding it from your coworkers who might notice or comment on an unknown budge that wasn't there yesterday, which means you need much better concealment (and/or a smaller gun)

Also with a credible threat against you/others, I would do my best to carry something in the Glock 19 size range rather than a subcompact pocket gun. Small guns are good for unforeseen threats but if you know you're targeted I think you should carry something that is better for fighting. Then again, if you have issues where you'll get fired if the gun is spotted, you may have to back off into a smaller gun.

It looks like you're erring on the side of deep concealment, so I'd recommend a belly band. No belt loops to show that you're carrying to a trained observer (or other gun guy) but you can hide most anything. The SmartCarry is another good option. I would avoid ankle carry as it is more difficult to draw from when standing up (instead of moving while drawing like you should be doing, you'll have to stay in place to draw and only then can you move). Pocket carry can also be difficult to get to in a hurry (typically slower than a draw from a belt holster) but you can have your hand on the gun without it looking like you're arming yourself.



If your boss is ok with carry, I would HIGHLY recommend going with a decent sized gun and an IWB holster with a lab coat or something like that. Even if your coworkers know it's not normal for you, your customers (who are the people yore really hiding the gun from) won't necessarily think of it as odd. As mentioned earlier, you could also do a tuckable IWB holster. Just blouse your shirt a little bit and even a large gun will completely disappear.

Flatbush Harry said:

Doc, I'm 70 and, in my experience, the fights you win are the fights you avoid. If you and your staff have concerns serious enough for you both to consider being armed at work, I'd suggest contacting a lawyer and the police for a restraining order/order of protection from the courts. I'd also suggest the hiring of a security guard to protect you.

If you can't find a better solution, how about a lab coat or a short white coat (like those med. students wear) under which you have either a useful shoulder holster or an IWB/OWB with a 9mm. I've found a Springfield XD-s an easy to conceal firearm.

Good luck and good wishes,

Harry

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A restraining order is all well and good....but it's main purpose is legal protection - establishing a record that someone is a threat so that in the event deadly self defense is required, there will be documentation. As for physical protection, a restraining order is several sheets of paper stapled together & obviously provide no protection. Police frequently respond to homicides where there is a restraining order on a table - above the murder victim who filed it.

I have a couple of the tee shirts with built in holsters. A tuckable IWB is a good option as is a ankle holster if your agile and can get to it.
As for restraining orders and security guards. How many times have we heard about how an order was totally ignored?
A security guard is no more than a scarecrow (words from one) they generally have little authority are unarmed and poorly paid. Is that what you'd stake your life on?
If it's a credible threat then have her file a complaint, get an order but if he can't be arrested than make sure all employees know what he looks like, get a silent alarm that the receptionist can activate to the back rooms and make a plan to defend your office until the police show up.

My all day every day handgun is a Smith and Wesson model 638 in a DeSantis pocket holster. It is well hidden and easily accessible in all clothing options. The humpback style makes it great for a fast presentation if necessary. Light in weight and loaded with 158 grain lead SWC hollow points it packs a reasonable punch. The small revolver is an excellent choice for constant but discrete carry. Much faster to draw and easier to pocket carry than my PM9 or SIG 290.

My bedside/car/secondary gun is a GLOCK 22 in an outdoor carry pouch with a shoulder strap. Easy to carry or leave locked in a desk. An option for the office or workplace carry in the NON tactical pouch that can carry extra stuff to support you daily work. Concealed in plain view.

Two options to consider for a little peace of mind in anxious times.

Have you considered a sneaky pete holster?
http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/ruger-lc9-sneaky-pete-holster-belt-loop/

I generally think these are a bad idea because everyone has their phone out all the time, making it obvious the holster isn't a phone case. In your circumstances though, you probably don't have your phone out in front of clients so it might be an option.

If a belt holster and a shoulder rig is out, then I would look at an ankle holster and a J frame or similar sized pistol.

Ankle carry is difficult to draw from while standing, but while seated, it is not too bad. A lot of vets I run into have little stools they roll around in.
I would bet that ankle carry is faster than the tee-shirt holsters.

I am also a strong proponent of front pocket carry, although it is next to impossible to get the gun out while seated.

Stay safe. Good luck.

How about groin carry, in a pouch holster like Thunderwear? I sometimes carry my LC9 in such a holster, you learn quickly how to draw, and you can do it while sitting. The position of the pouch allows your pants belt to keep the pistol in place while moving around and bending over, etc.
www.thunderwear.com I have the combination holster, will hold any pistol the size of an LC9, up to a pistol like an SR40c. Ambidextrous, has three pockets, so you can stash cash or credit cards and a couple of single stack magazines.

What kind of vet are you that you wear business clothes and no lab coat? It's a cinch you're not out sticking your arm up to the shoulder in a cow's ass.

I'm a veterinarian too, for the Army. I honestly can't think of an easy way to conceal a gun on your person, given the number of positions we normally have to assume with patients. An ankle holster would quickly become visible while crawling around on the floor. Most others would slip out of position or become visible while doing an exam. I would take a stash approach to it. The most likely first target would be your receptionists. They would need to have a gun on their person. For the most part, you are protected by time, distance, and barriers. You should be able to grab your gun from a secure location in the treatment area. I would develop an evac plan and then figure out where you can delay an assailant first. We have one. It's not the best - my receptionists are kind of screwed - but the rest of the staff has 3 exits available. We can't carry guns at work - at least not yet.

primalmu said:

My biggest issue with IWB is that when worn at 3-4 o'clock it is very obvious. Blazers are NOT an option as a veterinarian.

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I found the solution to that is get a very thin gun and use the shape of your body to your advantage. (hip bone and the curve of the small of your back)

As much as I'd love to carry it every day, I can not conceal my CZ PCR with dress pants and a tucked in shirt. I found the much smaller S&W Shield in 9mm is a gun that I can conceal with a tucked in shirt since it is much smaller and thinner. I use a dual clip hybrid holster at around 4:50-5:00 behind my hip bone with a lot of forward cant. I use a Harwell holster, but Crossbreed, Alien wear, etc all make holsters of this type. The dual clip holsters are thinner at the gun, pull the gun tighter to your body and with two attachment points are much better at keeping it from shifting.

The real trick for me is a product called Ulticlip. This is a spring steel locking clip that allows me to clip the holster onto my pants behind the belt. I actually clip the holster on my pants before I put the pants on.

I tuck my shirt between the pants and holster before I button my pants. After buttoning up, I blouse my shirt (just by raising my arms over my head) and the shirt covers the top of the clip, the belt goes on last and hides the rest of the clip. With the gun at an angle behind my hip bone and the grip tucked into the small of my back it is truly deep concealment with a very effective sidearm in a major caliber.

I am also a veterinarian, although in a rural practice which I own, so I don't do the shirt and tie thing. I carry everyday, and when I decided to go from a little 380 to an officers sized 1911 I started wearing my lab coat when I see appointments as all the bending and kneeling to examine patients made the larger gun difficult to keep it concealed. Since we have controlled substances that the Goblins may want to acquire, I think it a good idea to always be armed.