Striker Fired vs 1911 - a dispassionate discussion?
- Thread starter RPRNY
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From time to time I'll invite someone to shoot one of my 1911s at the range. Whenever I've do so with a person who has only handled striker fired poly handguns, they get very big eyes and rave on and on to me about how incredible the triggers are on my 1911s.
In my mind, that's what it's all about. The crisp, light "tink" felt when a well fitted mechanism trips the sear and releases the hammer, with very minimal take up and over travel. I make no claim to be the most experienced hand gunner out there, but I've fired my fair share of poly framed striker fired hand guns, to include: Rugers, HKs, XDs, Taurus (DAO & SA) and Kahrs, and while they are all decent weapons and serve their purpose well, their triggers are no comparison to my 1911s.
In my mind, that's what it's all about. The crisp, light "tink" felt when a well fitted mechanism trips the sear and releases the hammer, with very minimal take up and over travel. I make no claim to be the most experienced hand gunner out there, but I've fired my fair share of poly framed striker fired hand guns, to include: Rugers, HKs, XDs, Taurus (DAO & SA) and Kahrs, and while they are all decent weapons and serve their purpose well, their triggers are no comparison to my 1911s.
ManInLowCastle
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You get that with any precision firearm. There is a huge difference between a commodity duty gun and a high end 1911. When talking apples to apples..$500 striker vs $500 1911..I'll take the striker. Comparing a $500 striker to a $1500 1911...1911.
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You get that with any precision firearm. There is a huge difference between a commodity duty gun and a high end 1911. When talking apples to apples..$500 striker vs $500 1911..I'll take the striker. Comparing a $500 striker to a $1500 1911...1911.
My comparison is with production 1911s ranging in price from $800 to $1,100. That may or may not be a fair comparison.
I do give them all my best hobby gun smithing treatment, however.
My Serieas 80 Commander had a very crisp 5# trigger right out of the box. People rag on the S80, but I personally have no issue with them.
lsudave
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It all depends on your own preferences. The 1911 is far from the only hammer-fired gun. You can get a CZ 97 with hi cap, and keep the option of cocked/locked, and add doublestrike capacity.
lsudave
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Another bit of info to consider: additional use/function of the pistol, in self defense. If you're attacked, there's at least a fair chance that you will get into a physical struggle. If I'm wrestling with someone, then I want something I can grip fully, not something that only fills half my hand. Easier to hold. I also want something that is all steel- yes, the Glocks of the world have steel slides, but I would prefer my hammer/club to have more mass and heft if I have to smack someone with it. A 1911 has that, be it the slide or the magwell.
Cannibul
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I've got a Colt New Agent that's been flawless through over 1500 rounds.
My Commander sized guns 4.25 and 4" barrels likewise have been flawless.
My Commander sized guns 4.25 and 4" barrels likewise have been flawless.
Hangingrock
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As for the RAP9 I acquired one early in 2016 and have fired the it extensively. I liked it enough to also acquire a RAP45. The RAP series pistol is cost effective as most striker fired pistols are. My previous/current experience with striker fired pistols Glock and S&W MP. The 1911 series pistol I go back to 1964 introduction and ground combat experience in Viet-Nam thus up to this point as of this writing. With that said I'm no stranger to the 1911 series. My current EDC is either a S&W MP9 or MP9c. You may acquire a striker pistol in the five hundred dollar or less range and with the remainder $500.00 purchase ammunition on the other hand a 1911 series pistol of acceptable quality low end is $1000.00. Your money your choice.
RPRNY: said:
I'd give serious consideration to the HK45 Compact or the USP 45 Compact, either with a LEM trigger variant, I've got the full size HK45 and it's SA/DA which works great for me, but if I ever get the Compact, it will have a LEM trigger!
Ramone
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I'm a lifelong 1911 shooter. The first centerfire round I ever fired, at age 8, was from a 1911 I had to rest on a barb wire fence to hold it at arms length. Today, my EDC rotation is between a Full Size ( Auto Ordinance 1911 Thomson Custom) and a Compact ( Colt Series 80 Officers ACP ). I'm considering splitting the difference and finding a CCO sized pistol ( Officers length grip, Commander slide& barrel ).
I think it's a good idea to stick with a manual of arms you're familiar with already. Personally, I like the simplicity of being able to interchange holsters, mags, and various parts, simplifying my bench, range bag, EDC, etc.,.
That said, I'd take a look at the offerings from Kahr Arms. I owned a PM9 for a while, and really liked it, and I know several 1911 fans who also gave it high marks. While it is a very different trigger, it's a very good one right out of the box, very much like a well used S&W revolver. Laura Customer service has been excellent the two times I needed it ( once for the PM9, once for the 1911TC, as Auto Ordinance is owned by Kahr).
When I sold the PM9 in some financial dire straits, it was the one that went because I rarely carried it, as 1) it was only a bit smaller than my Officers Model, & 2) I prefer the redundancy of safeties on the 1911 for an EDC carry. While classed as a compact, I still found it large enough to be comfortable for the range.
I think it's a good idea to stick with a manual of arms you're familiar with already. Personally, I like the simplicity of being able to interchange holsters, mags, and various parts, simplifying my bench, range bag, EDC, etc.,.
That said, I'd take a look at the offerings from Kahr Arms. I owned a PM9 for a while, and really liked it, and I know several 1911 fans who also gave it high marks. While it is a very different trigger, it's a very good one right out of the box, very much like a well used S&W revolver. Laura Customer service has been excellent the two times I needed it ( once for the PM9, once for the 1911TC, as Auto Ordinance is owned by Kahr).
When I sold the PM9 in some financial dire straits, it was the one that went because I rarely carried it, as 1) it was only a bit smaller than my Officers Model, & 2) I prefer the redundancy of safeties on the 1911 for an EDC carry. While classed as a compact, I still found it large enough to be comfortable for the range.
My perspective:
For strong side IWB a 1911 (Commander 4.25'' or standard 5'') is more comfortable, has to do with where / how the slide contacts my hip.
For appendix IWB I can go either way, up to Glock 21 or Commander 4.25'' in length, no longer.
Glock 30SF has capacity advantage over 1911.
1911 has hand filling grip, whereas 30SF has gap between magazine base and frame that may pinch pinky, (pinch can be eliminated / mitigated).
It is easier to replace sights on a Glock, 1911 front sight (dovetail) takes a bit more time (fitting).
Replacement parts and springs are easy to get for either, which is important to me.
History (use in WWI, WWII, __) nor the presence or absence of a fictitious "soul" are not part of my pistol selection criteria.
The Ruger CMD (Commander 4.25'') is a good pistol for the price.
I first bought a Talo version with black nitride finish and night sights; I like those night sights, easy to see daylight or low light.
Subsequently got a basic stainless model and installed night sights myself.
Edit to add: I see little reason to go with a slide length less than 4.25'' (Commander), grip length factors more into concealment than slide length.
For strong side IWB a 1911 (Commander 4.25'' or standard 5'') is more comfortable, has to do with where / how the slide contacts my hip.
For appendix IWB I can go either way, up to Glock 21 or Commander 4.25'' in length, no longer.
Glock 30SF has capacity advantage over 1911.
1911 has hand filling grip, whereas 30SF has gap between magazine base and frame that may pinch pinky, (pinch can be eliminated / mitigated).
It is easier to replace sights on a Glock, 1911 front sight (dovetail) takes a bit more time (fitting).
Replacement parts and springs are easy to get for either, which is important to me.
History (use in WWI, WWII, __) nor the presence or absence of a fictitious "soul"
are not part of my pistol selection criteria.The Ruger CMD (Commander 4.25'') is a good pistol for the price.
I first bought a Talo version with black nitride finish and night sights; I like those night sights, easy to see daylight or low light.
Subsequently got a basic stainless model and installed night sights myself.
Edit to add: I see little reason to go with a slide length less than 4.25'' (Commander), grip length factors more into concealment than slide length.
Tcruse
Member
Take look at the Ruger Light Weight Commander 1911. The lighter weight makes a big difference for Concealed Carry.
That's the good news, the bad news is it also makes a difference for shooting. Especially in the Commander's and Officer's sizes.
I generally much prefer Single-Action autos, but since most striker-fired pistols these days are plastic framed and much lighter, I often compromise and carry my Ruger SR9. However, if I am planning to go into a dangerous situation I would prefer my trusty Borwning Hi-power, which I have owned for over 30 years or my 1911. I am looking to purchase a Turkish-made CZ-75 clone that can be carried cocked and locked for single-action shooting. A lot of these clones now are plastic-framed.
OP
OP
RPRNY
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Short version update: Had a good deal of trigger time with the Ruger, a Sig 227, and a Springfield XDs, all in 45 acp. I have to say that I was impressed with them all despite wanting to be a hater. I found the XDS the least ergonomically suited to me, loved the Sig's grip, but found a lot to like in all of them. Liked the Ruger overall the best of the three.
Then... I went and purchased the RIA 1911 CS... I guess you can take the Old Fuddy-duddy out to the range but...
The 1911 just feels right and is supper comfy. I have handled other RIA 1911s in the past and just couldn't get past the fugly parkerization that looks like rattle-can matt black finish on them. The Cerakote on the Lipsey's special is very nice. None of the internal tool marks that I have seen on others. Very handy - none of the sharp edges that are on the basic RIA GI model. Trigger is a little heavier than I would like but breaks very nicely and has no grit. Will range report later in the week.
Then... I went and purchased the RIA 1911 CS... I guess you can take the Old Fuddy-duddy out to the range but...
The 1911 just feels right and is supper comfy. I have handled other RIA 1911s in the past and just couldn't get past the fugly parkerization that looks like rattle-can matt black finish on them. The Cerakote on the Lipsey's special is very nice. None of the internal tool marks that I have seen on others. Very handy - none of the sharp edges that are on the basic RIA GI model. Trigger is a little heavier than I would like but breaks very nicely and has no grit. Will range report later in the week.
Deanimator
Member
I carry Glocks and M1911s interchangeably. I own and carry, multiple copies of both. My two most frequent carry guns are a Citadel 3.5 CS 3 1/2" M1911 and a 2nd Generation Glock 19.
It's DA autos which I can't abide. I'd never own another DA/SA or DAO auto, with the exception of a Walther PPK for pocket carry.
It's DA autos which I can't abide. I'd never own another DA/SA or DAO auto, with the exception of a Walther PPK for pocket carry.
Nice lookin, is that a steel or aluminum frame?
OP
OP
RPRNY
Member
Steel.
Polar Express
Member
I'll chime in. I've been a '1911 guy' as long as I can remember. They just 'feel right' in my hand. (I'm also right hand dominant, and it kinda matters) I've read and heard quite a bit, from reputable ppl, about how when different mfgrs set to make the gun smaller, they got more finicky. Last year, then I did a full re-eval on my own cc platform, I ended on Glock 19. I did invest in several parts from Ghost inc., and the triggers are much better. Others have been rather impressed with what was able to be done. But... I find I still prefer a true 'single-action' trigger.
Maybe I'm a stick-in-the-mud like the OP, but I just prefer. Maybe after 35 years of shooting a striker fired trigger assy, I'll feel that way about that design.
I believe Telekensis summed it up very well. And, Jmr40 has some interesting facts about the actual vs. perceived grip angle. FWIW, I did a LOT of grinding, filing and shaping of the (gen 4) G19 grip and trigger guard to get it to feel better in my hand. And, frankly, I'm still considering moving to the M&P 9c with an Apex trigger. For CC, I do like the idea of "point & press", and eliminating the step of removing a manual safety. The Glock design has enough internal/passive safeties for me to feel plenty comfortable (just my opinion).
Best wishes!
PE
Maybe I'm a stick-in-the-mud like the OP, but I just prefer. Maybe after 35 years of shooting a striker fired trigger assy, I'll feel that way about that design.
I believe Telekensis summed it up very well. And, Jmr40 has some interesting facts about the actual vs. perceived grip angle. FWIW, I did a LOT of grinding, filing and shaping of the (gen 4) G19 grip and trigger guard to get it to feel better in my hand. And, frankly, I'm still considering moving to the M&P 9c with an Apex trigger. For CC, I do like the idea of "point & press", and eliminating the step of removing a manual safety. The Glock design has enough internal/passive safeties for me to feel plenty comfortable (just my opinion).
Best wishes!
PE
Deanimator
Member
I have the Citadel version. They way a ton, but they're very pleasant to shoot.
Confederate
Member
Why, sure, it's completely possible to have such a discussion!
You just have to realize that striker-fired pistols like Glocks, while very accurate and reliable, are much more dangerous and require a great deal more care than pistols that have good safeties.
S&W 659
I say this because putting a "safety" on a trigger really isn't a safety at all. These striker-fired pistols may be carried and shot safely, and I've said this before. If I were to take my S&W 659 9mm, cock it, then holster it cocked, I may be able to safely carry it that way if I keep my finger off the trigger. It does, after all, have enough take up in the trigger before it trips. I just wouldn't feel uncomfortable doing it. The same thing's true with jacking a round into the chamber of a striker-fired pistol and carrying it. Unless I have a side-mounted safety, I'm not carrying it that way. On my 659 I have plenty of take up. Not so on my Glock!
People can always say you'll be fine if you keep your finger off of the trigger, and they'll be half right. You have to keep anything from touching the trigger. Just as with the 659. Some of the newer striker fired guns do have side-mounted safeties and they're fine. But if I had an older Glock with a safety on the trigger, I certainly wouldn't carry it with a chambered round. Others may disagree, but as Clint Eastwood said, "A man's gotta know his limitations!"
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Deanimator
Member
The Glock, M1911 and M39/59 series trigger mechanisms are nothing like each other and carrying a cocked but unlocked S&W or M1911 is nothing like carrying a Glock.Why, sure, it's completely possible to have such a discussion!
You just have to realize that striker-fired pistols like Glocks, while very accurate and reliable, are much more dangerous and require a great deal more care than pistols that have good safeties.
S&W 659
I say this because putting a "safety" on a trigger really isn't a safety at all. These striker-fired pistols may be carried and shot safely, and I've said this before. If I were to take my S&W 659 9mm, cock it, then holster it cocked, I may be able to safely carry it that way if I keep my finger off the trigger. It does, after all, have enough take up in the trigger before it trips. I just wouldn't feel uncomfortable doing it. The same thing's true with jacking a round into the chamber of a striker-fired pistol and carrying it. Unless I have a side-mounted safety, I'm not carrying it that way. On my 659 I have plenty of take up. Not so on my Glock!
Firing the S&W requires no more than disengaging the hammer hooks, an infinitesimal movement. Firing the Glock requires requires actually first pulling the trigger to cock the striker, then far enough to release it.
I would never carry a Model 39, BHP or M1911 cocked and unlocked. I regularly carry my Glock 19 and Glock 22 with a round in the chamber.
Confederate
Member
Perhaps, but I'm not sure carrying one is any safer than carrying the other. Neither one will discharge unless you pull the trigger. But that's of small consequence. One small nudge from a finger, holster or anything and either gun will go off.
Well, this is something I would love to see tested in a real world setting. If I jack a round into the chamber of my S&W 659/5906, there's a fair amount of take up I have before the gun goes BANG! I don't have any take up before the Glock goes BANG! People always say, "Yeah, well, the gun won't go off if you keep your finger off the trigger," and that may be. But it will go off if anything his the trigger. That's not necessarily true of my S&W 659/5906 because of the take up. But again, there's no take up with the Glock.
It's wherever your comfortable with. I would no more jack a round into a Glock and carry it than I would jack a round into my S&W and carry it as is. And again, I'd love to see a study to see if either one is more or less likely to accidentally discharge under similar situations. It's a fact, however, that every police department and law enforcement agency that's gone from a revolver or a more conventional auto to a striker fired pistol has seen a significant increase in accidental discharges.
Every auto has its advantages and disadvantages, The S&W 5906
here is a bit of a tank, but I love it.
This Taurus PT92 is the best of all worlds. Accurate, double action, single
action cock and lock, durable and beautiful.
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hemiram
Member
I'm immune to both the Glock and the 1911 virus that causes people to love them. I would take any number of other guns over either of them. Bu that's what all those models are for, something for everyone. I like a DA/SA or a DAO gun, if it's done correctly, like a Sig P220 DAK.
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