Things certainly can go wrong quickly.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...meowner-pulled-gun-intruder-article-1.2954438
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...meowner-pulled-gun-intruder-article-1.2954438
Pa. cops fatally shoot homeowner who had pulled gun on intruder
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PowerG
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Wow, strange chain of events, but such is life.
barnbwt
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It happens. And events like this will happen more frequently as we get Justice to start rehabilitating reformed felons' gun rights (right now the program is entirely defunded/inert), since those folks typically come from & return to very crime-ridden areas, as no doubt was the case here.
TCB
Arizona_Mike
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The article said the the old case was vacated but that has no bearing on this shooting.
buck460XVR
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An unfortunate series of events and one any and all of us should be aware that it could happen to us. Our state is trying to legalize carry inside of University buildings. While it is already legal to carry outside, inside buildings on campus are off limits. Law enforcement and University personnel are using this as the main argument against it.
DMK
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Mas Ayoob talks of this situation in the video below.
If you have a suspected intruder breaking into your house and police are dispatched by you or a neighbor's 911 call, they will arrive looking for trouble. If they see you walking around with a gun, they may suspect you are the armed intruder. They yell out "Pollice, drop the gun", you turn around and now have a gun pointed at them. They shoot.
Massad Ayoob - Home Invasions:
If you have a suspected intruder breaking into your house and police are dispatched by you or a neighbor's 911 call, they will arrive looking for trouble. If they see you walking around with a gun, they may suspect you are the armed intruder. They yell out "Pollice, drop the gun", you turn around and now have a gun pointed at them. They shoot.
Massad Ayoob - Home Invasions:
vito
Member
I know that if my home is invaded, after grabbing a gun for self defense I will have my wife grab her cell phone and call 911. In addition to telling them the basics (that we are being invaded, home address, etc.) she will describe what I look like, what I am wearing, and that I am armed. I do not plan to go exploring my home in the dark, but will take a defensive position within my bedroom, and if time permits grab my Mossberg 500 and await the police. Hopefully these actions will reduce the likelihood of the police mistaking me for the burglar and reduce the risk of them shooting me. I realize that with adrenaline pumping I may end up leaving the bedroom to try to confront the intruder but even then, if the police know that the homeowner is armed, what I look like and what I am wearing, the chances that they shoot me should be reduced significantly.
Our bedroom is next to stairs leading to my office where spare ammunition and firearms are stored. In addition, we have an escape ladder that can quickly be deployed out the window as an alternate emergency exit. Everyone in the house is briefed to climb those stairs if able. The 911 dispatcher will be advised of our location.
If intruders never enter that stairwell they can take whatever that want and leave. If said intruders attempt that climb after all legitimate occupants are accounted for, resistance will be substantial.
Every home needs a plan.
If intruders never enter that stairwell they can take whatever that want and leave. If said intruders attempt that climb after all legitimate occupants are accounted for, resistance will be substantial.
Every home needs a plan.
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Arizona_Mike
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I infer from the article that the mother's bedroom was downstairs which is what required him to peruse when the intruder fled down the stairs. I's a tragic situation.
Mike
Mike
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Ghost In The Fog
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Why isn't the intruder being charged with murder? It is his fault- Talk about taking responsibility for your actions.
Arizona_Mike
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Felony murder requires you to commit a crime of violence. Depending on state definitions if the burglar was armed it might could as a violent crime. The initial charge might just be a holding charge.
Mike
Mike
silversport
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...and who shot in the direction of the police when they were arriving...?
Bill
Bill
jmorris
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I didn't see that he shot anyone, from what I read he didn't have a firearm.
So it seems he would need to take responsibility for someone else's actions.
I do find funny that the convicted murderer grabbed "her" gun. If it's a no, no for you to have it and you get shot there likely will not be much correction made by the police dept.
Not sure of the law in PA. In many states a death that occurs during a felony in progress will cause the perpetrators of the crime to be charged with murder. It doesn't have to be a violent crime.
In some states a burglary committed while residents are present (not necessarily confronted) becomes a robbery whether or not violence is used.
barnbwt
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The police are probably also trying to use every method available to put this behind them as quickly as possible without admitting to any wrong-doing, so they may elect to not press the issue.
If it *is* morally superior for a freed murderer to die from incidental violence in a high crime area (which is where ex-cons tend to live, btw) instead of defending himself, we might as well have executed him for his crime in the first place, and saved considerable expense as well as risk to the public of re-offense.
TCB
Rather two-faced sentiment, don't you think? The guy was in fear for his *life* as well as his family's; it sounds like he had every reason to be prepared considering his surroundings, too. At some point, the demands of law become a lot less important than practical reality for a human, and defending one's life is a pretty obvious one. Even for an ex-con, who is still very much a human being, after all. Much better he be helpless in a violent home invasion and he/his family murdered, because the justice system saw him safe enough to be set free upon the public, but not safe enough to defend himself properly from said public. That absolutely serves the interests of justice better than allowing an ostensibly free man to make the decision to defend himself.
If it *is* morally superior for a freed murderer to die from incidental violence in a high crime area (which is where ex-cons tend to live, btw) instead of defending himself, we might as well have executed him for his crime in the first place, and saved considerable expense as well as risk to the public of re-offense.
TCB
I could not agree more. Well said.
Dog Soldier
member
These are the issues that are rarely discussed. The freedom to carry concealed weapons for protection is wonderful. But this and other cases prove that using "Deadly Force" can have consequences. 
salt&battery
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this happens so many times. when will people learn to call the cops AFTER you control the situation. when you call and tell cops a guy has a gun stalking your house the chances of you getting shot are very high
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not sure I understand how that's relevant.
Do you think the cops identified him, looked up his record, decided he was a felon in possession of a firearm, and so decided to shoot him?
I'd have a pretty hard time believing that's what happened, seeing as being a felon in possession of a firearm isn't, in and of itself, a justification for the use of deadly force.
Far more likely is that the officers arrived, heard shots, and saw someone with a gun that appeared to be pointing that gun at them, and/or threatening them with it, and so they shot. Very reasonable choices made on the facts understood in the moment can still have very unfortunate consequences.
In this case, the deceased's felony record seems to be irrelevant (at this point ... more information could change that). This appears to be the sort of tragic mistake that could happen to any of us.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not sure I'm ready to consider that a good suggestion. There are plenty of good reasons to call the police before violence occurs, if you have time.
But aside from that, it pays to read the whole story: "Brenda Richmond Thompkins said he grabbed her gun, not realizing the authorities had already been summoned by their alarm company."
salt&battery
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but Sam how could the alarm company tell the cops some one had a gun. I watched the news video and the guy told his wife to call 911 sealing his fate. the guy who broke in was still in the house and the dead guy fired at him from top of the stairs cause his mother was sleeping on the 1st floor then got killed by the cops. the guy that broke in was arrested still on the 1st floor I say this when the cops know there is a gun present the victims have a much greater chance being shot by the cops then the burglar who they did not say had a gun
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I don't think the alarm company told the cops someone had a gun. I'm guessing they were tipped off by the fact that they heard gunshots. If you hear gunshots when you respond to a break-in alarm, somebody's probably got a gun.
Most cops would assume there's (probably) a gun present anytime they are called to home because, there probably is! After all, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of US homes have guns, plus you're talking about a break-in in this case, and there's a pretty good chance the bad guy has a gun which raises those odds more yet. So it would be incredibly foolish for any officer to go to an emergency call thinking there are no guns involved.
Or are you saying that if a homeowner TELLS the cops they have a gun, the cops will go and shoot them? I certainly doubt that's what you meant because that's just absurd, but none of these things would be relevant to this case as the couple DIDN'T call the cops.
Where are you getting your data from?
This is unclear. You mean to say that when the cops know there's a gun present (whos gun? How do they know?) they're MORE likely to shoot a homeowner than an intruder? If so, based on what? What study has ever shown that responding police officers shoot homeowners more than criminals?
Most cops would assume there's (probably) a gun present anytime they are called to home because, there probably is! After all, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of US homes have guns, plus you're talking about a break-in in this case, and there's a pretty good chance the bad guy has a gun which raises those odds more yet. So it would be incredibly foolish for any officer to go to an emergency call thinking there are no guns involved.
Or are you saying that if a homeowner TELLS the cops they have a gun, the cops will go and shoot them? I certainly doubt that's what you meant because that's just absurd, but none of these things would be relevant to this case as the couple DIDN'T call the cops.
Where are you getting your data from?
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