JeffG
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The bison was 300 hardcast at 1650fps. The yak was 405 Remington jacketed at 1600fps. Both were quick kills, and easy pass through. My 458 is my bolt action 45/70. 
405 gr @ 2000 fps
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The bison was 300 hardcast at 1650fps. The yak was 405 Remington jacketed at 1600fps. Both were quick kills, and easy pass through. My 458 is my bolt action 45/70. 
bfoosh006
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I don't think the recoil will be as bad as you think.
Lean into it like a heavy shotgun load.
I have a Browning 1886 Carbine with a steel butt plate ... and while I wouldn't want to spend a morning at the bench with it ... it really isn't to bad.
I also have a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Lott... 500grs at 2300fps.... that one will make you open your eyes....
Lean into it like a heavy shotgun load.
I have a Browning 1886 Carbine with a steel butt plate ... and while I wouldn't want to spend a morning at the bench with it ... it really isn't to bad.
I also have a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Lott... 500grs at 2300fps.... that one will make you open your eyes....
Fortunately he didn't. If you shoot a bear in WY (without a tag), it's an automatic Federal beef. You're guilty until you prove yourself innocent and to do that it has to be a really clear cut self defense scenario.
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76shuvlinoff
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Well my thumper ammo has not come in yet but I can sincerely say I am learning a lot.
Thanks!
Mark
Thanks!
Mark
eastbank
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if a bear comes into your camp site you will not have much time to decide what to do, and i hope you will be ready and able to take action against it if needed. no one in your family or group will not be able to out run it and it will be able to kill any one of them with one swipe of a paw. look at the difference in size between the hind quarters and the front shoulders to see why the paw swipe is so dangerous. for me i,ll take my chances with a court. this bear weighted close to 600 lbs and was shot in centeral pa several years ago, the ladder by the bear will give you an idea of the size as the rungs are about 14" apart. eastbank.
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salt&battery
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most of the time if a bear comes into your camp it is because he smells food you are cooking.I doubt they come in to attack and eat humans. seems like some guys just like to kill them and are careless in camp
eastbank
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i tend to agree with you, but with a large animal that will eat just about any thing alive or dead. and you make the wrong choice about which bear it is, things can go south in a hurry. i would hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. eastbank.
salt&battery
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good advice makes sense
illinoisburt
Member
Getting a little into the weeds with bears. Personally I don't currently own a big bore rifle, though every time I see one available it gets my attention. A 404 or 45-70 sure would be fun though I don't have a true need for it ...
Unless you like paying lawyers large sums and hangin out in court, an informed and realistic assessment of the danger might be in order.
I doubt if defending a camp's food will meet the leagaleze of "reasonable".
Anyone who lives or recreates in bear country should be able to differentiate between their interest in human's food and an immanent threat, which isn't really the same thing as just being in the same area.
Helpful hint: Don't go into tall weeds with 'em.
I doubt if defending a camp's food will meet the leagaleze of "reasonable".
Anyone who lives or recreates in bear country should be able to differentiate between their interest in human's food and an immanent threat, which isn't really the same thing as just being in the same area.
Helpful hint: Don't go into tall weeds with 'em.
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No no no. You guys are totally off base. All you have to do is walk out and introduce yourself to the bear, tell him you're a liberal, and offer to give him all your food. The bear, being cute and cuddly to leftists, will simply offer his thanks and ask for free health care also. Don't take a gun for protection either. That's what the police are for.
You guys act like you've never watched the news before. You crazy, racist (black and brown bears) right wing fanatics!
You guys act like you've never watched the news before. You crazy, racist (black and brown bears) right wing fanatics!
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76shuvlinoff
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Thus another thread train careens down a dirt road to perdition.
sorry 76shuvlinoff, my bad
Nice lookin Shovel BTW. I had '74 74"and '76 80" FLs, and an '82 FXR. Prolly should have kept that last one.
No biggie. I have been one of the mods on a large Harley tech forum for at least 10 years. Threads going OT is just a thing. Thanks for the comments on the old bike. I've had her 23 years now and in many configurations. Currently sporting a 93" mill in front of 5/4 trans and geared for the highway. She'll run hard all day long but I have a 2012 EG road sofa with a throne my wife is more comfortable on. These days the shovel only gets a few solo putts a year .....but those are the best putts.
Still waiting on the mailman and my buffalo bore rounds.....
Maverick223
Member
I used to shoot a load like that out of my 1885, and honestly didn't find it to be that bad. My new load (I had it rechambered to for a little larger cartridge based upon the .45-120Sharps) is a different story...it drives a 480gr. solid at 2200fps and is somewhat more difficult to handle (on the same level as a .416Rigby and it's a reasonably lightweight rifle to boot).
As illinoisburt suggested that isn't the case when you are using solids. Velocity is never a bad thing from a terminal ballistics standpoint (barrel life is a different story altogether), it can result in most any effect you desire depending upon the bullet construction (from a thin jacket HP or BT that explodes on impact, to a partitioned bullet with limited expansion whilst retaining decent penetration, to a solid that has no expansion but excellent penetration). If you give a large bore (.366-458cal.) rifle enough velocity and you can use it for most anything and retain a decent trajectory in the process.
salt&battery
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when I gave that bullet weight at that speed I was thinking close range not shooting at a buffalo from 500 yds away. I was referring to a guy that shot a cape buffalo at 60 yds. except in Africa you can conjecture for every 10K hunting bullets fired there is one solid fired
35 Whelen
Member
Been there and done it (~2000 fps) with handloads and a 400 gr. Speer. My old Marlin 1895 wear only a receiver sight and has one of those hard plastic buttplates. With the relatively light rifle and the hard buttplate, recoil was brutal.
35W
35W
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76shuvlinoff
Member
bump
Finally got a nice evening and a moment of spare time. The first round felt like a personal best so I touched off another one and confirmed it.
They went 4-1/2" and 4-5/8" into a railroad tire (it was an old RR tie but maybe the paper plate slowed them a bit.)
I called it good and put the lever away.
I am still feeling it.
Finally got a nice evening and a moment of spare time. The first round felt like a personal best so I touched off another one and confirmed it.
They went 4-1/2" and 4-5/8" into a railroad tire (it was an old RR tie but maybe the paper plate slowed them a bit.)
I called it good and put the lever away.
I am still feeling it.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I imagine that there are a lot of solids fired out of .45/70's but most of them are cast.
salt&battery
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you misunderstood me. I was referring to expensive copper solids when I said I think to much speed might make a bullet deflect that is why I like the 45/70 400 cast bullet at 1500 fps rather then 2000. so a guy said that copper solids would not deflect at 2000 + which I still think they might
Elkins45
Member
Wear a glove on your trigger hand. Fold up a towel and put it under the recoil pad. Say a prayer that you don't develop a permanent flinch.
Maj Dad
Member
I loaded some 405 gr slugs to ~1800-1900 FPS a long time ago. After shooting 4 of them in my 1974 M1895 (all I loaded in the tube), I gave the rest of them to a masochist friend. Brutal is classic British understatement with that hard curved buttplate... Since then, my standard load is a 300 gr JHP or JSP with 53 gr of 3031 - it has given 1" groups off the bench in that rifle for 40 years without re-zero despite being dragged all over the country in my military service. Muzzle velocity is ~1800-1900 fps, and just knocks deer off their feet. It's all that's necessary...
I always thought lever gun with long magazine would make fine a HD gun. For .45-70 that would be "Cowboy" style load at 1200fps to 1300fps. Heck, you could even pack that into places like California w/o upsetting the locals. That is due in large measure to Western movies. The same can not be said of civilian versions of AKMs or M16s.
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