Vietnam-Era Shotguns

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Ruggz1515

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Hey everyone, I am very interested in owning a Vietnam Era shotgun. I want to get one as period correct as I can without breaking the bank. Any one of these would be great.

Ithaca 37 riot.
Winchester Model 12
Stevens 77E
Remington 870

My problem lies getting any one of these period correct. As far as Ithaca's go, I want one without a game scene on the receiver but those are hard to find. I guess could have it parkerized in time, because most civilian models are blued, and deal with the game scene.

One of my big questions is, the Winchester Model 12s that were used in Vietnam, were they used in Trench gun configuration with the heat shield and bayonet lug? Or were Winchester Model 12s used in Riot configuration as well? Because getting an actual model 12 trench gun is expensive. And buying a heat shield to install it and everything seems very complicated.

Stevens 77E are very hard to find for some reason. Especially with the black paint look they had on them in Vietnam.

And how much were Remington 870s used in Vietnam? Because I feel a lot of people don't really associate the 870 with Vietnam. Also, I feel that I can buy an 870 and put the corncob forend on there to get it more period correct.

I am having an issue and was wondering what would be the best way to go about getting a Vietnam Era/period correct shotgun. Any Vietnam Veterans help would be much and greatly appreciated! Any other knowledge about this would help so much! Thank you!
 
I am a 64-year-old USAF vet and all of the SP's guarding the bases then used Rem 870 Police or Riot Models.

I have had a copy of this book for a couple of decades and It has a lot of information:

https://www.amazon.com/Streetsweepers-Complete-Book-Combat-Shotguns/dp/0873644247

A new copy is $3.51 + $4 shipping. Cheaper than I paid in the 90's.

The only VietNam flick I have ever seen to use a Savage/Stevens pump shotgun was a class B movie "Platoon Leader" (I still have an old VHS copy but no player: thanks be to YouTube!). The best part is watching how often the actor has to keep feeding shells into the mag (even though it appears to be a Stevens 69RXL with extended mag which was not produced until around 1988).

It starts around 15:40 and later...



I think the 77E shotguns were mostly Savage, but Stevens was the cheaper line and they could have been more prominent.

Good luck in your quest, sir!

Jim
 
Inland and Ithaca are collaborating on re-issue of a Model 37 Trench shogun. However, it will break the bank.

https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Shotguns/M37-Trench-shotgun.html

Not sure how "authentic" you want to be, but I looked at an old but sound Remington Model 10 at the LGS the other day for $100. The Model 10 loads and ejects from the bottom like an Ithaca 37, no engraving on the receiver. If you found one of the Remingtons, you could chop the barrel, tap for a bead, refinish the stock and have the metal parkerized. Probably not a lot of money invested. Or redo the metal yourself for even cheaper. That would be, IMHO, period correct as to configuration but not "authentic".

I've seen a picture of a Vietnam era swift boat guy coming ashore with what appears to be a 37 with a short barrel. If you Google "Ithaca shotguns in Vietnam," you get a lot of articles and pictures about the 37 and other in-country scatterguns.
 
I would go with any of those listed except the Model 12. Even beat up field grade Model 12s go for hundreds more than other pump guns and in any military configuration its 'sticker shock' prices.
 
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If I recall correctly the military did use some Ithacas with the game scenes on the sides of the receiver.
 
That is pretty neat if they were using shotguns with game scenes. How many other militaries have such a strong civilian RKBA that the military is borrowing civilian manufacturing overrun instead of the reverse (which is no longer allowed.)
Sad that civilian firearm ownership is no longer on par with the military to the extent we see that kind of thing anymore.

If fact I find that a fascinating topic, when military weapons started deviating from civilian technology thus changing the give and take relationship they had.
A lot of why the AR is a much better rifle today than when it was first fielded is upgrades the civilian market has brought to the platform.
The military market doesn't create technology like the civilian market, even though the civilian market creates all level of quality good and bad, it has a lot more variety to allow different technologies to improve. The result is a special operations unit can shop in the civilian AR market and get better equipment to customize their tools than the general military has purchased from the lowest bidder. A situation many nations cannot benefit from.
 
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Have you seen this article? It might be useful in your quest.
icons_ar_logo.png

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/22/combat-shotguns-of-the-vietnam-war/
 
Thanks for providing that link! Seems I was looking at pics of Stevens 77's instead of 67's, although I know at least one was a 67.
I guess I have sort of a collection of them going- I have an Ithaca 37 and an 870. Maybe I'll have to finally pick up my own Win. M12, and stop passing on all those cheap Savage 67's and 520's. ;)
 
I have a Rem 870 purchased new by me in 1970 so I know it's period correct. Vietnam barrel length I'm not sure about because I wasn't there. I was in N. Africa at the time. USN 67-71. I can send you a pic if you want, but it looks exactly like the one in the AR link except there is no USN property stamp. Best pump gun ever built. Simple, high quality and solid as a rock.

I have a feeling most of those are either still in Vietnam or in the USN arsenal. They just don't surplus that stuff. I had a 1911 that I'm sure was WW2 vintage. The Marines maintained our arsenal and there were plenty of vintage Garands and 1911's in there.

I also have a Win 97 with a riot barrel that shipped with the gun. I guess they had a lot of bank robbers and riots in 1917. :D
 
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The least expensive Vietnam era Military contract shotgun is probably going to be the Stevens 77E riot gun or maybe a Remington 870. Trench guns, no matter who the maker is, are going to cost a lot more money unless it's one of the commercial made Ithaca trench guns which can be had for around $1,500. The Vietnam Ithaca Military contract shotguns do not have game scenes on the receiver.
 
My enthusiasm for the Savage/Stevens 67 and 77 series went downhill when I knocked a 67 out of my gun safe and the pot metal trigger group broke completely in two pieces.
 
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The Model 12 and Ithaca 37 are great designs. If kept, they'll run forever. I have one of each (the Winchester in a trench gun configuration, the Ithaca a riot model) and count them among my favorites. The trench gun I built. The riot gun is as it came.

It's hard to argue with an 870. How many were in Viet Nam, where, and when is the question. I believe the RVN bought a number in the middle '60s. As pointed out, the USAF had a few. The Marines didn't make an official purchase until 1972...doesn't mean some didn't filter into the arms room, though.

The 67 is problematic. They were cheap guns then. Now they're OLD cheap guns and most of them (in my experience) have problems. Some of these are cosmetic. Some of these are inherent in being cheap and old. The reason you don't find them much anymore doesn't have a whole lot to do with their collector value. Frankly, the cost to fix one usually exceeds the value of the gun.

My opinion. No more, no less.
 
Occasionally carried a Winchester M97-12Ga pump with exposed hammer, heat-shield and bayonet lug. I was in the raggedy A** Marine Corps
 
Hangingrock said:
Occasionally carried a Winchester M97-12Ga pump with exposed hammer, heat-shield and bayonet lug. I was in the raggedy A** Marine Corps
Click to expand...


All the Department of the Navy had to spare ? I understand that there was talk in 1967 of issuing the Corps with the Rogers & Spencer cap & ball revolvers until someone realized they had been sold off to Bannerman at the turn of the century...
 
Tom D said:
The least expensive Vietnam era Military contract shotgun is probably going to be the Stevens 77E riot gun or maybe a Remington 870. Trench guns, no matter who the maker is, are going to cost a lot more money unless it's one of the commercial made Ithaca trench guns which can be had for around $1,500. The Vietnam Ithaca Military contract shotguns do not have game scenes on the receiver.
Click to expand...

It appears they had a price cut. I'm seeing the Ithaca/Inland trench guns for right at $1000 on the auction and big box sites. Probably because nobody was buying the damn things for $1500. But, I hear the Ithaca shotguns made today (they still make a number of models BTW) are really good guns. $1000 is still a lot and technically it wouldn't be an original trench gun, but it is a close replica and the price while expensive isn't totally unreasonable.

A while back I set up a Mossberg M590A1 into a sort of "modern trench gun" format with heat shield and M7 bayonet. I've since sold that gun though. It was excessively heavy and handled like a dead pig on a shovel. I am much more of a fan of the 4-6 round magazine tube guns. I also used to have a Winchester M12 riot gun that was a joy to shoot and handle but had some feed problems.
 
to be really kewl like I was; I had my father bring me one to Viet nam in 1969 : An Ithaca M37 LAPD model . It certainly wowed the troops and guess what ? I used ny MACV pass to bring it back (with a general officer signed chit :) )
No I don't have it since early 70s , and the M37 DeerSlayer I bought in the 80s to replace it was given to my son about 5 years ago. Take my word for it you want an M37 Ithaca military riot . The only other ones of them I saw were in the hands of Saigon MPs and Navy Security guards.
http://www.armslist.com/posts/30129...-ithaca-model-37-12-gauge-riot-shotgun-8-shot
 
A quick flip through Bruce Canfield's Combat Shotguns book reveals that no less than 38,500 870s were supplied to South Vietnam just in the early '60s, while the number issued to U.S. forces appears to be well into the thousands despite the use of several other types of shotguns.
I remember read the memoirs of Marine infantryman Ron Flesch who was part of the initial contingent that landed at Danang in 1965, and it appears he was issued an 870 early in January 1966, mentioning that the first time he fired was in combat!
 
The 870 is my favorite shotgun hands down, an old ex police riot will be accurate enough. For kewl and iconic factor tho the Ithaca 37 Riot has it IMHO, everyone over there who saw mine thought it was. In my second tour , as a 97B on TDY there 1970 and I only was issued a 1911a1 with 3 mags. My dad was a manufactuers rep for the first FLIR units being installed in the Mohawk Army plane and had enough pull with brass in Saigon , combined with my MACHV "pass" to bring me what I requested a model 37 Ithaca riotgun . I used brass cased buckshot which was easily enough found. I never saw any model 12 trench guns in use, I was even then a gun enthusiast and was constanttly checking stuff out. all over the country.
 
I had a friend who was there in '68 as an 11B that carried one and I believe he said it was an Ithaca, but I can't remember now.
 
Converting a M12 into a trench gun isn't that difficult Numrich has the handguard you'll need to shim it cause real trench barrels are a little thicker.
Please find one somebody has already bubba'd with a polychoke nice M12s are getting scarce.
 
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