What was the average weight of these deer?Having done effectively this experiment, albeit spread out over multiple seasons and at the majority at considerably longer ranges, I will say you will not experience ANY difference in these two groups of hypothetical deer. Any given one of them, hit with either cartridge, will be just as likely to drop in his tracks OR to run ~40-50yrds before collapsing.
Been there, done that. Unlike your hypothesizing, I have the luxury of experience in this particularly unique case. Given a well placed bullet of proper construction in each, it's nearly arbitrary to compare the 9mm to the 357mag for hunting deer.
My wife dropped a meat doe several years ago with her 2 1/4" SP101, shooting the Leverevolution 140 FTX at 43 layered tar ds. Ran a ways and crumpled. I hit a deer in the early 2000's with a G19 firing either a 125 or 147 Gold Dot at 35 stepped yards, she jumped straight up at the shot, but her legs buckled and she died where she had stood. Used the same bullet the year before in a High Point carbine to take a doe past 60yrds, she ran about 60yrds.
The difference in performance on DEER really isn't applicable, but it certainly does NOT support your contention of a significant difference in stoppage between the two.
You have to get out past 50-75yrds before the 357mag starts really shining over the 9mm, and frankly, that difference remains to be INCREDIBLY limited if you're talking about short barreled pistols. A full length revolver or carbine can give the 357 enough barrel to leave the 9mm behind, but for a snubby, the difference isn't substantial.
Not so sure about the .357 Mag
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What was the average weight of these deer?
Varminterror
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With the herds I've managed, I don't shoot any doe I don't believe will dress at least 150. I've had a few "ground shrink," on over-estimation which dressed at 125-130, but I've also drug doe back to the truck which dressed 180-190lbs. So in doe, that's somewhere 165-250lbs on the hoof. For bucks, I don't usually target anything I think will dress under 180, so 225 on the hoof. The buck I took in 2011, my processor claimed would have gone 315-325 on the hoof, but I'd taken him with a rifle. He wasn't the biggest body in our herds that year, just had the most points out of the boys of the right age. My wife dropped an 8pt cull buck with a .357mag Redhawk shooting 158xtp's which dressed over 180lbs, which should be in the 240's on the hoof.
Presuming to predict your next comments, I will say, after working animals my entire life, and after participating in pugilistic and combative arts for over 20yrs, there is no man who has ever lived which would be pound for pound as tough as even a lowly whitetail deer. Whether a hog, dog, colt, calf, or sheep, I've not met an animal yet which yields as easily as a human. I'd carry a much, much larger firearm if I thought I had 250lb bucks might attack me, instead of 250lb men.
PlumRotten
Member
Well...only 1 of the 3 you listed use their firearms in the like of duty....Texas DPS
Silly Service has Presidents get shot and never fire a shot. Only time Silly Service MIGHT use a firearm is if they are on a task force with real law enforcement.
Sky Police...when is the last time you heard of a shooting on an airplane?
Deaf Smith
Member
You think they are the only ones? There are more...
Bureau of Industry and Security
Delaware State Police
Montana Highway Patrol
Texas Ranger Division
Virginia State Police
Tennessee Highway Patrol
The Mississippi Highway Patrol
Oklahoma Highway Patrol
Rhode Island State Police
New Mexico State Police
North Carolina State Highway Patrol
As well as local PDs use it.
So? What's your point?
Deaf
Deaf Smith
Member
There is no 'parsing' kemosabe. I guess you never read anything Ayoob wrote.
The police, were the reports come from, had the exact loads used mentioned. They gave for each cartridge the percentage of one shot stops.
You need to look up Ayoob, Evans and Marshal, and to an extent Dave Spaulding.
Deaf
PlumRotten
Member
My Point.....that you only listed one Agency that would use their firearms in the line of duty. I thought that was pretty clear. But now that you mention....having a point....what is your point in listing all these Agencies?
So, they are not all deaf....how do you know?
How many Officer's in each of those Agencies have fired a firearm without hearing protection?
Of those...how many have suffered from hearing loss?
Oh yeah....that's right....You have no idea!!
Big7
Member
I would have no problem with a "regular" .38 and a +P would do even better.
I can remember when there we no such thing as +P.
They were called "SuperVel" back in the day.
No arguementa here. I have a similar background to you + 10 or so years - minus the deer. I do think they are a good measure, better than ballistic gels etc.
CajunBass
Member
I can't explain it either, but that's my experience also. I had a careless discharge with a Colt GM 45 ACP indoors many years ago. Not only did I not hear the shot, a family member in the next room, about 20 feet away, through an OPEN double door heard almost nothing. He said he thought I'd "popped a primer" reloading. Others family members in the other rooms of the house heard nothing at all.
And it was a full power round. The gun functioned normally, and my mother in law found the empty case a few days later, so we can eliminate the possibility of it having been a squib round.
No Quarter
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Auditory exclusion. It is a real thing. Anyone in combat does not put their plugs in first. At least not when I was in. I have let loose with a 50 Cal without any harm. Same with a SAW and a TOW MISSILE or two. Body does amazing things when one is actually doing things instead of just practicing and talking about them.
.357 is awesome. Why do we try to refute things just to have to keep learning that the data was/is correct?
.357 is awesome. Why do we try to refute things just to have to keep learning that the data was/is correct?
Auditory exclusion doesn't prevent actual physical damage to the tiny bones in the ear.
WE ARE A FIREARMS FORUM! Anything that is not directly related to firearms is off topic. Since y'all seem to want to talk about anything but firearms this one is done.
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