AK47 or AR15

Tirod said:

I can access the gas cylinder on my AR in less than 20 seconds without removing handguards. Yet some AK owners still claim their gun is "easier to clean." Whatever.

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I don't understand how you can make that statement. My AR has the standard gas impingement system and it a monumental pain in the butt to clean thoroughly. Even with a casual cleaning, my AK takes half the time.

Is your AR a piston gun? I admit that would greatly simplify things, but most ARs and all the military ones, are G.I.

DrewAK47: Brunowbe summarized what the Moderators and most seasoned enthusiasts at AKfiles cojsistently recommend. Their language at times can need some polish, but are very astute in their knowledge.

An AK imported by Century such as a WASR 10 has the high-quality steel bore and trunnion, bolt lug channel etc.

Century's all-American RAS and C39 look very nice, but have only lower quality, commercial grade steel, in contrast to what is used in military AKs exported to "customers".

Several new I.O. AKs are seen malfunctioning on YouTube videos because of very inferior quality control.

If you have a budget of 1k, spring for a Colt LE6920, and that will leave you some left over for a rear sight and mags. Get a good rear sight though (Colt carry handle would be my preference for the money), not some airsoft thing off ebay, or worse yet a cheap red dot or scope. Then save your pennies and get a used aimpoint next.

As far as AKs go, I wouldn't touch anything besides an Arsenal. They're basically Bulgarian, and Bulgarian AKs are more or less identical to their Russian counterparts, so you're more or less getting Russian milspec when you buy an Arsenal. When you get into an AK though it's just a nightmare trying to make it halfway ergonomic. And there's really no great solution for mounting optics. The AR is just an all around more user friendly platform, and more reliable as well. And cheaper, quite a bit cheaper actually, especially considering there's nothing you have to do it to make it 21st century ready. By the time you get an AK all decked out with a new stock, grip, optic, specialized mount for optic, etc. you're looking at around two grand, and decent mags aren't cheap either.

I would get an AR. You can't beat the price and they are more consistent. AKs are fun, but I wouldn't recommend buying one at the moment. Besides ARs have better aftermarket parts.

If 6.8spc had been available in AR's when I bought my AK.........I wouldn't own an AK.

"...mags aren't cheap either."
What??
Magpuls can be had for less $12, and the Tapcos I have work just fine too - I've seen those less than $8. Steel mags are quite durable and available cheaply at RTGparts.

Oh and +1 on the Bulgarian recommendation.

you can buy a vepr for about 700 on gunbroker. many will say they are the best built aks ever made, certainly overbuilt. tho an argument could be made that they arnt true ak's as well. they are more of an rpk(receiver/trunion/barrel and rear sight)

at this time AR's are dirt cheap. it will stay this way untill we get closer to the next election. you could easily build an AR for 450$
veprs may just go up in price in that time.


I do own a 16inch vepr in 7.62x39. significantly more accurate then my maadi and wasr

Prijador said:

"...mags aren't cheap either."
What??
Magpuls can be had for less $12, and the Tapcos I have work just fine too - I've seen those less than $8. Steel mags are quite durable and available cheaply at RTGparts.

Oh and +1 on the Bulgarian recommendation.

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The real deal mags are about 40 bucks each and getting harder to find.

grampajack said:

The real deal mags are about 40 bucks each and getting harder to find.

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Real deal mags?? You can get Polish, East German, etc. for $20ish or less.
Not sure why one would be hung up on steel magazines, though, when Pmags and Tapco polymer mags work great, take at least some abuse, and are cheap and sooo *much* lighter...

A lot of AR guys love to hate on AKs while most AK guys like both platforms for different reasons. I own several ARs and AKs, and IMHO, there aren't many other options that can beat a Vepr, Arsenals, or Wasr 10... These are military grade weapons made on the same machinery by the same people who manufacture weapons for the Russian and other militaries around the world. Veprs are built like tanks, and are plenty accurate. They aren't as finicky as ARs, and they hold and increase in value much more so than ARs. There have been torture test, accuracy, as well as meltdown test done by the popular YouTube channels Iraqveteran8888, AKOU, and others where the AK out preformed or preformed just as well as the AR15. Rob from AKOU even did a 5000 round test comparison tested with a top of the line, I believe, $2000 Daniel Defense AR15 vs the much more inexpensive Vepr. The Vepr had less reliability issues and preformed just as well if not better than the AR. The Vepr also fared better than than the AR15 in the meltdown video.

I own a BCM (Bravo Company) AR, several PSA ARs that I built myself, a Wasr 10, a NPAP under-folder and AK handgun, and several Veprs chambered in 7.62x39, 308 (x2), and 12 gauge. I prefer my AKs, and they are more fun to shoot. Plus while AR prices are dropping, all of my AKs have increased in value. I'm not going to get $1k+ for my used BCM or make my money back on my PSA builds. The same can't be said for all those who purchased a Vepr, Saiga, Norinco, Wasrs, etc... It's a good platform that has been and still is being used across the globe....

I seen it mentioned that ARs are dirt cheap, and cheaper than AKs... Well sure, but in most cases you're not getting the same quality barrel, and other parts. Even still, there are $400-$450 AKs on the market.

Prijador said:

Real deal mags?? You can get Polish, East German, etc. for $20ish or less.
Not sure why one would be hung up on steel magazines, though, when Pmags and Tapco polymer mags work great, take at least some abuse, and are cheap and sooo *much* lighter...

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Real Russian military surplus mags.

I think if I was going to get a first AR, this deal would be tempting:

https://www.cdnnsports.com/6920-16-flat-top-rogers-ret.html?___SID=U

6920 with a soft case, pop up rear sight and a mag for $799.

I'll start off I'm not a fan of the AK. I do have two Saigas but IMO the AK is a good weapon for the other side to use.

My prejudice is based in the fact I started using M16/AR/M4s almost 50 years ago. I've used them as a soldier and a LEO. More than once in serious social situations. Contrary to what you might hear the 5.56 always worked for me.

Your $1000 budget gives you a variety of ARS to shop for. I have S&W and DPMS and theres been no issues with either. I'd stick with 5.56. 300 blackout is just 7.62x39 performance in a caliber that feeds better in an AR. You can get 5.56 anywhere.

Yeah, after using them for 50 years everything is muscle memory for me with ARs. It's what I would choose for a battle rifle and has accuracy way better than almost all AKs.

Some have suggested building your own AR. I can understand that it's pretty easy. However, if there's a problem you need to figure it out. If you buy a new one you can always send it back. I never had to do that but I like having the option.

grampajack said:

Real Russian military surplus mags.

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But why? Why spend 40 dollars on a mag, when there are perfectly acceptable mags on the market...all over the place....for under 15 a pop? These mags do everything a russian mag would, at a 1/3 of the price. Why insist on Russian, when theres nothing truly superior about them?

Davek1977 said:

But why? Why spend 40 dollars on a mag, when there are perfectly acceptable mags on the market...all over the place....for under 15 a pop? These mags do everything a russian mag would, at a 1/3 of the price. Why insist on Russian, when theres nothing truly superior about them?

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Well if you're getting a military style semi automatic rifle then it stands to reason you're planning on using it for home defense. Otherwise what's the point of having it? If it's just for plinking at the range then fine, but if that's the case then I don't know why we're even having this conversation because it doesn't matter one iota what you get. A 600 dollar Polish knockoff AK will serve just as well as anything else, or a 400 dollar knockoff AR. But if you're planning on using it for home defense or whatever then you don't want to take chances on using crap mags. AK mags aren't nearly as forgiving as AR mags. You can't just plug any old mag into any AK and expect reliable function, or any function for that matter. Many aftermarket AK mags won't work at all with some AKs, or will only work some of the time. It can be really hit and miss. But if you've got a Russian pattern AK (either Bulgy or Russian parts) and use Russian mags you probably won't have any problems. Start using the knockoff mags made for export and you just never know.

I have a S&W mid length AR and a Arsenal SAM 7 milled AK . I like them both , I would have a hard time picking my favorite . I guess the edge could go to the AR for fitting everyone and ease of adding accessories and more accurate . My AK fits me great like it came so I don't have a problem with it's fit and I like the larger caliber , it's so fun to shoot , easy to clean and cheap ammo .

Im a die hard AR guy. Used one in combat and have used one in LE for almost 10 years now. Ive basically used one as part of my job since 2002. I know that rifle inside and out and am even a certified armorer for the platform.

Just because I prefer the AR over the AK for social work doesn't mean I think the AK is a bad rifle. I love AKs. However having owned 2 older WASRs (early 2000s vintage) and seeing crap AKs in Iraq I can tell you that It is not the infallible machine that some think it is. And unlike an AR you cant just go to the gun store and start slapping new parts on it in your kitchen. It uses rivets and the barrel is pressed into the receiver with a 10 ton press (i think its 10, might be wrong on that). So if you decide to buy an AK I urge you to buy a good one even though it might be a couple hundred bucks more than some other types. I can say that shooting my friends Arsenal and my brother in laws high end, properly built, parts kits really made me change my mind about the rifle. Sub 3 MOA groups regularly. Head shots at 200 yards with regularity. Body shots at 400 yards with regularity.

That being said, the deal posted above by GTscotty is ridiculous and you should definitely buy that. Im going to post the link again.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/6920-16-flat-top-rogers-ret.html?___SID=U#.WVNmWuvyuUk

grampajack said:

Well if you're getting a military style semi automatic rifle then it stands to reason you're planning on using it for home defense. Otherwise what's the point of having it? If it's just for plinking at the range then fine, but if that's the case then I don't know why we're even having this conversation because it doesn't matter one iota what you get. A 600 dollar Polish knockoff AK will serve just as well as anything else, or a 400 dollar knockoff AR. But if you're planning on using it for home defense or whatever then you don't want to take chances on using crap mags. AK mags aren't nearly as forgiving as AR mags. You can't just plug any old mag into any AK and expect reliable function, or any function for that matter. Many aftermarket AK mags won't work at all with some AKs, or will only work some of the time. It can be really hit and miss. But if you've got a Russian pattern AK (either Bulgy or Russian parts) and use Russian mags you probably won't have any problems. Start using the knockoff mags made for export and you just never know.

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LOL...to each their own, but An AK is an AK mag to most people. The steel ones built like tanks and last a lifetime. The plastics like Magpul, well, its obvious when one's failed, and it takes a lot of abuse to get there. I wouldn't use ANY mag, russian or otherwise, without function testing it in the particjlar rifle I planned on using it in. Other than that, I would feel as comfortable defending my home with WASR with a functioning Magpul as I would an Arsenal running Russian mags. You might be a bit more picky, but in the end, bot are going to do the job just fine as long as the man behind the rifle does his part. As for magazone forgiveness....other than some WASRS with roughly cut magwells, most AK mags wor iiin darn near any AK...the ones that don't are certainly the anomaly. Do you really think a rifle used efficiently by 3rd world armies worldwide for decades would use a platform that was picky about what mag you stuck in it? Your opinion simply doesnt match my experience, and think spending a premium for russian mags is a mom=numental waste of money that could be better spent on something like ammo. I see no need to spend 40 plus dollars on something an 8 dollar item does just fine and has for ages. AS for the AR mags being "reliable"....I call BS. Modern mags like Magpul, yes, but the aluminum mags are very prone to feed lip issues, and thgey aren't are immediately recognizable as when a Pmag suffers the same problem. Magpul mags are an example of an improvement over the original design. When comparing orignal standard issue mags, I sincerely doubt many expeirenced shooters would rate the AR-15's as being "more durable or forgiving" LOL...you can drive a tank over an AK mag, pound a houses' worth of nails with it, toss it in a stream overnight, and its more than likley stiull going to work....bulgarian, russian, romanian, chinese, east german, yugo....it matters not. Steel ak mags are a dime a dozen and are more or less interchangable as far as reliablilty and practical use. Russian mags do nothing better, except for saying "made in russia"

Yeah I don't get it, AR or AK, what's not to like about Magpul mags?
Lightweight, effective, durable, and inexpensive. For $40, you can get 4 or even 5 if you wait for a sale.

Back to just talking AK's, I've seen East German mags that were hot blue works of art. Functioned flawlessly.

Ah well, that's one of the beauties of our freedom - plenty of choices...

Prijador said:

Yeah I don't get it, AR or AK, what's not to like about Magpul mags?
Lightweight, effective, durable, and inexpensive. For $40, you can get 4 or even 5 if you wait for a sale.

Back to just talking AK's, I've seen East German mags that were hot blue works of art. Functioned flawlessly.

Ah well, that's one of the beauties of our freedom - plenty of choices...

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East German stuff is great. They may have been commies but they were still Germans after all. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but they never made any AK74 mags did they? At least I've never seen any for sale. But that doesn't mean they'll work with just anyt

That may be the source of the misunderstanding here. I'm assuming that by AK47 everyone means an AK74. If this is going to be used for home defense then I hope the OP doesn't have any intention of firing off 7.62 inside his house. Thus I assume he's looking at 5.45 or 5.56. But I've had 5.56 AK stuff and wouldn't recommend it.

Davek1977 said:

LOL...to each their own, but An AK is an AK mag to most people. The steel ones built like tanks and last a lifetime. The plastics like Magpul, well, its obvious when one's failed, and it takes a lot of abuse to get there. I wouldn't use ANY mag, russian or otherwise, without function testing it in the particjlar rifle I planned on using it in. Other than that, I would feel as comfortable defending my home with WASR with a functioning Magpul as I would an Arsenal running Russian mags. You might be a bit more picky, but in the end, bot are going to do the job just fine as long as the man behind the rifle does his part. As for magazone forgiveness....other than some WASRS with roughly cut magwells, most AK mags wor iiin darn near any AK...the ones that don't are certainly the anomaly. Do you really think a rifle used efficiently by 3rd world armies worldwide for decades would use a platform that was picky about what mag you stuck in it? Your opinion simply doesnt match my experience, and think spending a premium for russian mags is a mom=numental waste of money that could be better spent on something like ammo. I see no need to spend 40 plus dollars on something an 8 dollar item does just fine and has for ages. AS for the AR mags being "reliable"....I call BS. Modern mags like Magpul, yes, but the aluminum mags are very prone to feed lip issues, and thgey aren't are immediately recognizable as when a Pmag suffers the same problem. Magpul mags are an example of an improvement over the original design. When comparing orignal standard issue mags, I sincerely doubt many expeirenced shooters would rate the AR-15's as being "more durable or forgiving" LOL...you can drive a tank over an AK mag, pound a houses' worth of nails with it, toss it in a stream overnight, and its more than likley stiull going to work....bulgarian, russian, romanian, chinese, east german, yugo....it matters not. Steel ak mags are a dime a dozen and are more or less interchangable as far as reliablilty and practical use. Russian mags do nothing better, except for saying "made in russia"

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Most of the cheap AK mags on the US market were made for export and are not up to par. The feed lip geometry is all over the place and the steel isn't always heat treated very well. They're a far cry from what they're using in third world countries, which are mostly using combloc military surplus. And if we're talking about Africa where there's no standard issue anything, they do have issues. They'll actually sort their mags by order of function, and hopefully not have to use the ones that don't work well in whatever AK type they happen to have. And if we're talking about countries in the middle east like Pakistan they do have standard issue items across the board. They wouldn't just throw any mags into the pool without testing them. And if we're talking rebel armies like ISIS and the Kurds, they're mostly using Russian and other combloc surplus, and again, they do run into issues sometimes. If you watch the videos they upload to youtube you will see right off that they suffer from constant and crippling equipment issues, including their small arms.

To me the plastic ones are a write off. Long term storage of a loaded AK mag with polymer feed lips will deform the feed lips. You'll see polymer AK mags with the tops worn where the feed lips have expanded and interfered with the carrier.

Besides, the AK pmags are still 25 a pop, which is insane for an all polymer mag IMHO. I would rather spend the 35 for a Russian steel mag that was going to last a lifetime and is pretty much guaranteed to work, assuming your AK is to spec.

grampajack said:

Besides, the AK pmags are still 25 a pop, which is insane for an all polymer mag IMHO. I would rather spend the 35 for a Russian steel mag that was going to last a lifetime and is pretty much guaranteed to work, assuming your AK is to spec.

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http://www.fieldandstreamshop.com/p...mgkm762xgua?camp=CSE:FNS_pg26417_ecom_PLA_453 with zero effort whatsoever in terms of looking for sales, I found them listed for 14.99, and have seen them as low as 8.99 Edited to add- Primaryarms.com has them in stock right now at 10.99

Davek1977 said:

http://www.fieldandstreamshop.com/p...mgkm762xgua?camp=CSE:FNS_pg26417_ecom_PLA_453 with zero effort whatsoever in terms of looking for sales, I found them listed for 14.99, and have seen them as low as 8.99

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Those are the old ones without the steel reinforcement. They're fine for plinking, but you don't want to rely on them for anything else. The Gen 3 ones I've never seen for under 25, and even those have a lot of problems reported with them. Each to his own, but I would spring for the Russian ones for 35.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/rifles/ak-47/ak-magazines.html
https://www.cdnnsports.com/magazines/762x39-30rd-steel-bulgarian.html#.WVPojHqIbMI
Plenty of decent mags for 30$ and under. I would stay away from anything plastic or korean/asian.
Anything steel from the Warsaw pact, Russia, and China are good. The Croatian blued mags are well made, but are really tight in most magwells. If you are going to spend 40$ a mag I would pay a little more and get the Bulgarian waffle mags.

what do you think of this deal?



even if some are tight at <$6 each ...

what do you think of the $15 korean made 40 round AK mags?

I am just curious