if you worked at a gun shop-loonys.

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If the staff had any concerns about the customer they have the obligation to not make a firearms sale to them.

I'm a little concerned about your attitude on "tactical XYZ", though.
ohihunter2014 said:
asked for the most tactical/assault weapons in the store
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When is an AR any different than any other semi auto rifle or carbine? When are good ergonomics somehow anything to be critical of?
 
Snyper said:
An FFL can refuse to do any transfer with no repercussions.

There is no obligation on his part to sell to anyone he doesn't want to for any reason he chooses.
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Wish I were confident this would really be true in all cases. But my guess is the LGS would be on their own if the customers who were refused sale make a claim in court that refusal of the sale was based on race, ethnicity, sexual preference, etc.
 
hso said:
If the staff had any concerns about the customer they have the obligation to not make a firearms sale to them.

I'm a little concerned about your attitude on "tactical XYZ", though.


When is an AR any different than any other semi auto rifle or carbine? When are good ergonomics somehow anything to be critical of?
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I was really trying to be nice in my opinion but here it goes.

I was using the word tactical because i don't like assault weapon. this kid had the look like he sits in the basement and plays video games and probably gets picked on at school and now the kid-in dads words wants an "assault weapon" the kid doesn't want a 22 semi auto, M1, benellie auto loader, or a AR-22. he specifically wants a 5.56 or a home defense shotgun w/pistol grip. these weapons are made to defend yourself not screw around shooting pop cans-yes they can be used for that but not as a first gun IMO.

I have 0 issue with people owning these weapons as i like them myself but ive been around guns my whole life and first gun was a 12ga pump bird gun at 14yo. If it was dad saying hey son ill buy you an AR because you have other guns then id be good with it but based on how he was talking and acting and not just the way he looked anyone with gun knowledge would say he probably isn't an enthusiast like us here and IMO it was a little strange the kid wanted those weapons with no other gun ownership. I guess I'm wrong. dad and kid both acted like they were stoned out of their mind, it just didn't sit right with me. lets just hope the kid actually did want that AR/pistol grip 12ga for shooting cans.
 
Snyper said:
An FFL can refuse to do any transfer with no repercussions.

There is no obligation on his part to sell to anyone he doesn't want to for any reason he chooses.
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Be nice if its true, but it flies in the face of recent lawsuits about not selling wedding cakes to gay couples. Is this exemption specifically spelled out in current law? Not trying to be a pill, I'm genuinely curious about this.
 
I have another one. Some guy in store was buying a small handgun. During the transfer he sets his drivers license down and it disappears in the store. So near the end of his purchase he is loudly complaining and blaming the store clerk for losing it. Awkward. I left without knowing the conclusion. We live in a more free society than others in the world. As long as someone doesn't directly threatened others and obeys the law they have a second amendment right in America. It's the risk of a free society. I prefer it over a nanny government any day.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I was really trying to be nice in my opinion but here it goes.

I was using the word tactical because i don't like assault weapon. this kid had the look like he sits in the basement and plays video games and probably gets picked on at school and now the kid-in dads words wants an "assault weapon" the kid doesn't want a 22 semi auto, M1, benellie auto loader, or a AR-22. he specifically wants a 5.56 or a home defense shotgun w/pistol grip. these weapons are made to defend yourself not screw around shooting pop cans-yes they can be used for that but not as a first gun IMO.

I have 0 issue with people owning these weapons as i like them myself but ive been around guns my whole life and first gun was a 12ga pump bird gun at 14yo. If it was dad saying hey son ill buy you an AR because you have other guns then id be good with it but based on how he was talking and acting and not just the way he looked anyone with gun knowledge would say he probably isn't an enthusiast like us here and IMO it was a little strange the kid wanted those weapons with no other gun ownership. I guess I'm wrong. dad and kid both acted like they were stoned out of their mind, it just didn't sit right with me. lets just hope the kid actually did want that AR/pistol grip 12ga for shooting cans.
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I can't fathom why you don't understand that some people like to shoot for shooting's sake. Not every kid is as fortunate as us and grew up hunting pheasants along the Snake River with Dad's 12g single. The city kids who are fortunate enough to go shooting may have no need or desire for hunting firearms. Around here there are 2 and 3 gun challenges at the shooting ranges. About 90% of competitors use Glocks, AR' s and a tactical shotgun. You may find this difficult to believe; kids are allowed to compete. Yes sir, no lie.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who shoot guns and are nothing like you or me or the next guy.
 
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When I worked in a gun shop the boss was crystal clear on the subject. "If you ever feel something's not right about a sale, don't make it.".
 
COD is just one way young people get interested in shooting. Sadly it may be the only way for some, but we can hope that the online generation takes a moment and looks at how to safely handle the firearm and use it than just going out and putting a hole in the garage.
 
Davek1977 said:
Looking scary isn't a crime. Being obnoxious isn't a crime. Speaking at high volume isn't a crime. A parent buying a gun for their child as a gift, even if its a "scary" looking ar-15 or pistol grip shotgun is again, not a crime. Buying a gun without any knowledge of firearms too, is not a crime. AS has been said, an ffl can refuse a sale for whatever reason, but as far as the guy doing anything illegal, I don't see it. I presonally wouldn't want my 2nd Amendment rights infringed upon simply because someone took issue with my appearance or offense to my behavior. If I'm doing something illegal or dangerous, by all means, do what you need to do, but if I'm simply talking louddr than you feel comfortable with, and my kid has a t-shirt on that you take offense to for whatever reason....maybe you think its devil worship stuff.....Thats no reaason to to deny them their rights.
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So freedom only extends to the purchaser? What about the freedom to decide whether or not to do business with certain people? I see it all too often, people want freedom, but only when it's convenient or beneficial to themselves.
 
claiborne said:
I can't fathom why you don't understand that some people like to shoot for shooting's sake. Not every kid is as fortunate as us and grew up hunting pheasants along the Snake River with Dad's 12g single. The city kids who are fortunate enough to go shooting may have no need or desire for hunting firearms. Around here there are 2 and 3 gun challenges at the shooting ranges. About 90% of competitors use Glocks, AR' s and a tactical shotgun. You may find this difficult to believe; kids are allowed to compete. Yes sir, no lie.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who shoot guns and are nothing like you or me or the next guy.
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and i bet those kids grew up with dad or someone else doing it. all I'm saying is their actions threw up a red flag to myself, my buddy and another guy who stood there looked at the guy and shook his head. I get that people still shoot without being hunters but when dad and kid act like they have never touched a gun in their life and act like they just smoked a pound of weed or smoked meth then its a red flag.

what if this kid who specifically wanted these weapons uses them in vein? i bet hes on facebook and youtube showing it off or trying to scare people. when you act like your on drugs, come to a gun store, ask for the cheapest AR-15 to gift to your kid who just stood there and held the gun like hes holding a tray of food and says yeah man i want that one. dad says or would you rather have the pistol grip shotgun. you don't shoot competitions with a $400 POS AR or a pistol grip shotgun. when he cant even spell his own street name, get all angry about it and then laugh something's wrong.
 
Man, the video game stereotype is super annoying. I am 36 and play my fair share of video games. I guess it's generational, but it's easier to jump on a game with friends than find a sitter to go out for a night on the town. My favorite part is figuring out what developers get right and wrong about the guns they put in their games.

Video games are an excellent way to get youth interested in firearms, hell the Army even used a video game they made as a recruitment tool.
 
Hanzo581 said:
So freedom only extends to the purchaser? What about the freedom to decide whether or not to do business with certain people? I see it all too often, people want freedom, but only when it's convenient or beneficial to themselves.
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what about if the customer is gay or a minority and is refused a sale?. then they would have the freedom to get the state or the feds involved in a discrimination lawsuit bankrupting the business
 
salt&battery said:
what about if the customer is gay or a minority and is refused a sale?. then they would have the freedom to get the state or the feds involved in a discrimination lawsuit bankrupting the business
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There are anti-discrimination laws that handle those cases. If I had my way people would have the freedom to choose who to do business with, I'd let the free market decide how to deal with them.

But that is outside the scope of this thread since loudly cursing in a store has nothing to do with race, creed or sexual orientation.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I was really trying to be nice in my opinion but here it goes.

I was using the word tactical because i don't like assault weapon. this kid had the look like he sits in the basement and plays video games and probably gets picked on at school and now the kid-in dads words wants an "assault weapon" the kid doesn't want a 22 semi auto, M1, benellie auto loader, or a AR-22. he specifically wants a 5.56 or a home defense shotgun w/pistol grip. these weapons are made to defend yourself not screw around shooting pop cans-yes they can be used for that but not as a first gun IMO.

I have 0 issue with people owning these weapons as i like them myself but ive been around guns my whole life and first gun was a 12ga pump bird gun at 14yo. If it was dad saying hey son ill buy you an AR because you have other guns then id be good with it but based on how he was talking and acting and not just the way he looked anyone with gun knowledge would say he probably isn't an enthusiast like us here and IMO it was a little strange the kid wanted those weapons with no other gun ownership. I guess I'm wrong. dad and kid both acted like they were stoned out of their mind, it just didn't sit right with me. lets just hope the kid actually did want that AR/pistol grip 12ga for shooting cans.
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So, in the end, its as much about the gun being bought, as it is the person buying it. Judgemental much?
 
Hanzo581 said:
There are anti-discrimination laws that handle those cases. If I had my way people would have the freedom to choose who to do business with, I'd let the free market decide how to deal with them.

But that is outside the scope of this thread since loudly cursing in a store has nothing to do with race, creed or sexual orientation.
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most sex and race discrimination cases are based on false claims by the "offended" but they still go thru and most of the time they win. I am totally against all that but it will never change only get worse
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I'm curious for those who work in the gun industry if its legal to not sell a gun to someone who acts and looks like they are a loon? I was in a larger mom and pop shop yesterday and 1 adult and 2 late teenage guys walk up to the gun counter and the older guy maybe about 40yo basicly pushed everyone out of the way and yells to the counter guy "hey is that an AR 223 or a 22? It was loud enough to catch my attention over 25ft away. He tells the guy he wants the cheapest one and is really loud. he then grabs it pointing it all over the place and hands it to the young guy and says "here dude you like that **** or you want a shotgun with pistol grip"? the kid doesn't even shoulder the AR and says he likes it but wants to see a shotgun. Meanwhile the dad is being loud and cursing and just acting like a loon.

About 15min later I hear him say "hey man let me get one of those AR's its his first gun" again I'm several aisles away and he's laughing and saying "yeah you can shoot 556 out of it too, LOL! that's soo cool man"! then as I'm looking at a use pistol 20ft away the guy yells :cuss:... I messed up the street name! "hey man let me get another sheet"

we get to the register and he comes up behind me and says yeah, man I just got him an AR-15. I say yeah, he says "yeah its his first gun man"

First off isn't it illegal to buy and do the form for anyone other than yourself?

is it illegal to deny someone a gun because you think they aren't all there? when I walked by after he did the form the counter guys were talking about another shop denying someone stating federal law and they brought up the AR so I'm assuming it was him and some other shop told them take a hike.

I took it the guy was doped up on something just how hyper he was acting and the way he was talking but they let him walk out with an AR 15 with his kids that look like they worship the devil.

Okay, rant over!
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Davek1977 said:
So, in the end, its as much about the gun being bought, as it is the person buying it. Judgemental much?
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just a little bit. when you act mentally unstable or like your high on drugs in public and especially purchasing something like this as a first weapon. A kids first gun shouldn't be an assault weapon and when you look stoned out of your mind at 16yo. i would have been 100% good with him wanting an AR but when you bring the pistol gripped, home defense shotgun into the mix that's a red flag. I shoot competitions with polymer handguns, tactical shotguns, AR, etc so no issue with the weapon wanted just who was wanting it and the possible reasons why. in todays society everyone is worried about being too judgmental and hurting someone's feelings and that's why this worlds becoming a crap hole as we know it.
 
one could argue overly judgemental people who make rash assumptions about people like drug abuse and Satanism from someone being a bit loud and obnoxious contribute to the "crap hole" as well.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
just a little bit. when you act mentally unstable or like your high on drugs in public and especially purchasing something like this as a first weapon. A kids first gun shouldn't be an assault weapon and when you look stoned out of your mind at 16yo. i would have been 100% good with him wanting an AR but when you bring the pistol gripped, home defense shotgun into the mix that's a red flag. I shoot competitions with polymer handguns, tactical shotguns, AR, etc so no issue with the weapon wanted just who was wanting it and the possible reasons why. in todays society everyone is worried about being too judgmental and hurting someone's feelings and that's why this worlds becoming a crap hole as we know it.
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I won't even touch on the fact picking someone's first gun in subjective, but an AR-15 is a great first gun. Low recoil, cheap ammo, infinitely adjustable and customizable. It's sad that not only do we have the media demonizing "scary black rifles" but now we have one of our own doing it.
 
In 5 years of working in three gun shops, there were two times that I refused to sell a gun to someone.
1. A guy started cussing out employees because he called first & asked if we had a product & either the salesman misunderstood him or he wasn't clear about the product he asked for. Then he asked me to let him check out a gun. I said, "No sir...the thought of you having a gun is disgusting; with your temper, you'll end up doing something you'll regret. And a gun shop is not a good place to be when you're intoxicated."

2. A woman asked to see a revolver. After I checked it & handed it to her, she said, "If I put this gun right up to my mother's head & pull the trigger, how long will it take for her to die?" Obviously she had mental issues & I wanted to get the gun back without any problems, so I said, "Hmmm...let me have it so I can check." She gave it back to me & I said, "I'm sorry, ma'am, no one here is allowed to sell you anything or show you anything. I warned the other salesmen about her, then I went to lunch. When I came out of the lunch room, another salesman was selling her the gun. I asked him, "What the hell are you doing; you know she shouldn't go near a gun." He replied, "Hey man...there's $25.00 commission on this gun; I ain't losing it...not my problem." I said, "You're an a--. I called the owner & he stopped the sale. A year before that, the store paid $400,000.00 to the parents of a 20-year-old who committed suicide with a gun he bought. The parents saw the receipt for the gun during the waiting period & spoke to the store manager about their son being suicidal & not to sell him any guns. Apparently, the salesman who sold the gun either wasn't aware of the situation or he just didn't care.
 
Its not against the law to be a jerk and its not against the law to buy your kids a gun....
 
Hanzo581 said:
I won't even touch on the fact picking someone's first gun in subjective, but an AR-15 is a great first gun. Low recoil, cheap ammo, infinitely adjustable and customizable. It's sad that not only do we have the media demonizing "scary black rifles" but now we have one of our own doing it.
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how many times did i say i don't have an issue with it being an AR. there's a time and place for all firearms. i don't own a 50bmg because there is no reason to and i have guns that i purchased just for the hell of it. being around drug addicts half my life you tend to know when someone is doped up. if the kids going to shoot competition with it awesome have at it but these 2 clearly purchased it because its in 99% of people eyes a bad ass gun and makes you a bad ass owning one. normal people don't start cursing at the paperwork because they made a mistake, normal people don't stand there like a zombie staring at the wall. both appeared to myself and another person to be on drugs and now they were sold a rifle. not just because its an AR id be pissed if it was a handgun.
 
Shaq said:
In 5 years of working in three gun shops, there were two times that I refused to sell a gun to someone.
1. A guy started cussing out employees because he called first & asked if we had a product & either the salesman misunderstood him or he wasn't clear about the product he asked for. Then he asked me to let him check out a gun. I said, "No sir...the thought of you having a gun is disgusting; with your temper, you'll end up doing something you'll regret. And a gun shop is not a good place to be when you're intoxicated."

2. A woman asked to see a revolver. After I checked it & handed it to her, she said, "If I put this gun right up to my mother's head & pull the trigger, how long will it take for her to die?" Obviously she had mental issues & I wanted to get the gun back without any problems, so I said, "Hmmm...let me have it so I can check." She gave it back to me & I said, "I'm sorry, ma'am, no one here is allowed to sell you anything or show you anything. I warned the other salesmen about her, then I went to lunch. When I came out of the lunch room, another salesman was selling her the gun. I asked him, "What the hell are you doing; you know she shouldn't go near a gun." He replied, "Hey man...there's $25.00 commission on this gun; I ain't losing it...not my problem." I said, "You're an a--. I called the owner & he stopped the sale. A year before that, the store paid $400,000.00 to the parents of a 20-year-old who committed suicide with a gun he bought. The parents saw the receipt for the gun during the waiting period & spoke to the store manager about their son being suicidal & not to sell him any guns. Apparently, the salesman who sold the gun either wasn't aware of the situation or he just didn't care.
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this is my feelings on my case. im a customer that's not even standing close to the guy and i thought he had a couple screws loose so how did the counter guys not. im pretty sure someone else told him no he wouldn't sell them a gun because the counter guys were talking about someone being denied and told it was a federal law. i bet 95% that they went elsewhere beforehand and was told no either because of dads actions or him wanting to buy for the kid.
 
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