if you worked at a gun shop-loonys.

Old Dog said:

"ISTR?" Another acronym I'm not familiar with ... Doesn't matter. Marijuana is still a Schedule 1 controlled substance as far as the federal government is concerned, so regardless of whether pot is legal for recreational use in one's state, if one is a regular user of this substance, one is a prohibited person.

Lotsa folks up in my state who cannot understand this ...

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ISTR = I seem to remember

Not only recreational users, but even users of medical marijuana in states where that is legal, are prohibited persons.

ohihunter2014 said:

A kids first gun shouldn't be an assault weapon.

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LOL..... oh, how that word is subjective. Many not in the know apply it to any semi-auto weapon capable of accepting large magazines....you know...kind of like a 10/22, which has been say...thousands of people's first gun over the years. Would you have cringed as much had it been a blued and hardwoood 10/22? You also claim you don't own a .50 cal because "there's no reason to". I think you have that wrong....YOU have no use for one. That hardly means a use doesn't exist. There's lot of things I dont have a need for that I have absolutely no problem with ayone else having

OP wrote a rant based on living with 50% of the people around him on drugs. Sees similar behavior at a gun store, goes to the internet, and the resulting discussion solves nothing other than to air prejudices.

How people act in retail stores and the store clerk's decision to sell them something are two different things. You can't stop people being rude and arrogant - I will say it again, IT'S NORMAL. HAPPENS ALL THE TIME NOW IN PUBLIC SOCIETY.

Whether anyone around them likes it or not, tough. They don't care. They are insensitive to someone picking up cues that might or might not lead to assessments of character or a lack of it. Brusque, rude, and even belligerent behavior is NORMAL now and the #1 reason why it's getting harder to keep retail help.

Ask me how I know. The common denominator is that the individual who does this is usually a person with a high degree of unfamiliarity - outright ignorance - about the subject that store deals in. They go overboard to display an image of being competent when in fact they are only giving cues about what little they do know.

I will say that happens a lot on the internet, too.

How somebody acts or looks these days is a matter of diversity - people dress and act as they please, with NO regard for how I, or you, or anyone else likes it. There is no common denominator that says we are all in this together any more. We live in a society of fragmented niches which make no effort to relate to each other.

Try discussing what kind of dress people should wear going to church near the beach sometime. Exciting exchange of views. No level playing field there.

What I am reading about comments saying someone looks like they just crawled out of a basement to appear in public might well apply to those who apparently have never seen the general public or interacted with them. I can only conclude that someone is living an equally sheltered life absent contact with the general public and certainly not on a daily basis.

Work retail and you learn you haven't seen it all, yet. There's always something new. From the wide variety of different nationalities, accents, and ethnic groups to every flavor of lifestyle you may not have wanted to discover, demonstrated in public. Some act out their new found identity to ensure you, the retail clerk, are made aware of their proclivity.

Some loud guy and his son buying a firearm is tame in comparison. And going to the internet to stir up some kind of agreement is, too. Unfortunately, being a public forum and consisting of a large variety of different viewpoints, getting substantiation for an opinion isn't a guarantee.

Insisting on it won't happen either.

We can agree to disagree about the substance of what happened, vs what was presented as an opinion on it, and that's about it. Other than that I suspect the mods are spring loaded to close this as very little positive benefit is presented in the opening thread. It's just a rant about how somebody perceived human behavior.

I suggested that it meant very little compared to the fact they drove a car to get there. Think about that the next time out on the roads of America and how we still tend to successfully interact to get to all our destinations. Even as different as we are.

Tirod said:

OP wrote a rant based on living with 50% of the people around him on drugs. Sees similar behavior at a gun store, goes to the internet, and the resulting discussion solves nothing other than to air prejudices.

How people act in retail stores and the store clerk's decision to sell them something are two different things. You can't stop people being rude and arrogant - I will say it again, IT'S NORMAL. HAPPENS ALL THE TIME NOW IN PUBLIC SOCIETY.

Whether anyone around them likes it or not, tough. They don't care. They are insensitive to someone picking up cues that might or might not lead to assessments of character or a lack of it. Brusque, rude, and even belligerent behavior is NORMAL now and the #1 reason why it's getting harder to keep retail help.

Ask me how I know. The common denominator is that the individual who does this is usually a person with a high degree of unfamiliarity - outright ignorance - about the subject that store deals in. They go overboard to display an image of being competent when in fact they are only giving cues about what little they do know.

I will say that happens a lot on the internet, too.

How somebody acts or looks these days is a matter of diversity - people dress and act as they please, with NO regard for how I, or you, or anyone else likes it. There is no common denominator that says we are all in this together any more. We live in a society of fragmented niches which make no effort to relate to each other.

Try discussing what kind of dress people should wear going to church near the beach sometime. Exciting exchange of views. No level playing field there.

What I am reading about comments saying someone looks like they just crawled out of a basement to appear in public might well apply to those who apparently have never seen the general public or interacted with them. I can only conclude that someone is living an equally sheltered life absent contact with the general public and certainly not on a daily basis.

Work retail and you learn you haven't seen it all, yet. There's always something new. From the wide variety of different nationalities, accents, and ethnic groups to every flavor of lifestyle you may not have wanted to discover, demonstrated in public. Some act out their new found identity to ensure you, the retail clerk, are made aware of their proclivity.

Some loud guy and his son buying a firearm is tame in comparison. And going to the internet to stir up some kind of agreement is, too. Unfortunately, being a public forum and consisting of a large variety of different viewpoints, getting substantiation for an opinion isn't a guarantee.

Insisting on it won't happen either.

We can agree to disagree about the substance of what happened, vs what was presented as an opinion on it, and that's about it. Other than that I suspect the mods are spring loaded to close this as very little positive benefit is presented in the opening thread. It's just a rant about how somebody perceived human behavior.

I suggested that it meant very little compared to the fact they drove a car to get there. Think about that the next time out on the roads of America and how we still tend to successfully interact to get to all our destinations. Even as different as we are.

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there are way more drunks driving around then ones drugged up. most people do not care what others think of what they do loud Harleys are an example

dogtown tom said:

Wait...........you yanked the form and cancelled the sale because a customer didn't check a box on 10a?
Did you ASK him to give an answer? Did he refuse?All you have to do is tell him 10a needs to be answered to get your gun.
I ask 'cause that's the silliest damn reason to cancel a sale. Either you're leaving out some information or you don't now what the heck you're doing. If I had an employee cancel a sale because a buyer failed to answer 10a..........I would find a new sales clerk.

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Yes, I pointed out his omission, he got pissed to the point of trembling and turning red. Yes. I refused to sell him a firearm.

Wisco said:

No joke. Fired on the spot.

As with all the internet, it's hard to know unless you were there, but I know when a customer is a turd the same as I know when a sales clerk is screwing with me.

Both the help one hires and the average clientele says a lot about the business...

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Nope, not fired. The customer got pissed about 10a. He didn't get mouthy or say the standard, but I answered it here (10b). He got red faced, trembling pissed. The other sales clerks even came over to see if everything was alright.

Sorry I did not feel that selling this gentleman a firearm was responsible. You are correct, you had to be there to see this guys response.

tommy.duncan said:

Nope, not fired. The customer got pissed about 10a. He didn't get mouthy or say the standard, but I answered it here (10b). He got red faced, trembling pissed. The other sales clerks even came over to see if everything was alright.

Sorry I did not feel that selling this gentleman a firearm was responsible. You are correct, you had to be there to see this guys response.

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It does sound like he had anger issues.

Captcurt said:

It does sound like he had anger issues.

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That was my thought.

Like I posted you really had to see this guys response.

Snyper said:

An FFL can refuse to do any transfer with no repercussions.

There is no obligation on his part to sell to anyone he doesn't want to for any reason he chooses.

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It's easy. "Sorry, you've been denied."

Hanzo581 said:

Don't know when this was but nowadays that is quite common. Tons of people go online to do their research then just walk in and say they want whatever.

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This was about 10 years ago. I wasn't all that much into guns yet, I was a newbie. Didn't do much internet research, and i wish I had. Just been in that shop a few times before.

Snyper said:

Wedding cakes aren't covered by Federal laws nor sold by licensed dealers.

No reasonable. logical person would refuse a sale based on reasons protected under the Civil Rights act alone. That would be illegal.

Of course anyone can sue for anything as long as they file the paperwork, so that's always a risk. They would have to prove the reason was one of those listed.

You can always ask here:
https://www.atf.gov/contact
E-Mail questions:
[email protected]

E-Mail:
[email protected]

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I can't imagine liberals being upset about not selling someone a gun. Especially since they think nobody should have one.

HexHead said:

It's easy. "Sorry, you've been denied."

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I wouldn't go this route. We had someone get approved but the sales guy suspected the guy was drunk so he denied the sale stating he was denied, the customer then asked for the information to follow up with the state police and figure out why. State police tells him nothing was wrong and he was good to go....now we had the guy asking why we lied to him. But this time he's back, sober. That was an uncomfortable conversation.

Wow! There's a whole lot of "what if's" going on with respect to refusing a sale.

If the signs aren't "right" for a sale, then simply REFUSE THE SALE. End of story.

If we live our lives in constant fear of litigation then we'll get nowhere, except maybe hospitalization for ulcers and possibly an early grave.

The plain fact of the matter is the anybody can sue anybody else for anything. Don't let that get to you.

There are plenty of ways to fight a frivelous law suit, the most important of which probably being how you handle the scenario leading up to it in the first place.

Dang, Chief -- normally, I'd agree with you -- (and quit introducing common sense into the thread) -- but denying someone a Constitutionally-protected right simply because their behavior (with no provable illicit substance use as a causative factor) doesn't live up to one's subjective standard is, as I noted, a slippery slope.

While I, as previously stated, strenuously object to sharing the roadways with stoned/drunk drivers, or otherwise having to share space in public with same, we cannot deny people protected rights simply because we don't like the way they act in public.

If a dealer "suspects" someone is high or drunk then he should deny the sale. Isn't that the law? Now, suspecting and proving are 2 different things but I don't know any shop set up to offer a breathalyzer or blood test to prove anything. Also, if you deny someone their "right" to buy a firearm in your store, you aren't denying him his 2nd amendment right to own a gun, you just won't be the guy selling him one. The buyer can sober up and go elsewhere or buy private or whatever You didn't strip him of any right. He still has the right to own, just not from your store.

RetiredUSNChief said:

Wow! There's a whole lot of "what if's" going on with respect to refusing a sale.

If the signs aren't "right" for a sale, then simply REFUSE THE SALE. End of story.

If we live our lives in constant fear of litigation then we'll get nowhere, except maybe hospitalization for ulcers and possibly an early grave.

The plain fact of the matter is the anybody can sue anybody else for anything. Don't let that get to you.

There are plenty of ways to fight a frivelous law suit, the most important of which probably being how you handle the scenario leading up to it in the first place.

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yes you can fight a frivolous law suit by bankrupting your business even if you win. most of those suits are trumped up false charges and they always seem to win anyway