45 ACP REVOLVERS

I am looking to buy a charter 45 acp as a backup gun. since SW no longer makes a snubnose 45; that leaves me to get the charter arms 45. Come to think of it ; it might be a good thing not to need moon clips.

azrn said:

I am looking to buy a charter 45 acp as a backup gun. since SW no longer makes a snubnose 45; that leaves me to get the charter arms 45. Come to think of it ; it might be a good thing not to need moon clips.

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Were it me, I would rather go for a 5-shot 44 Spl., a real revolver round in a more compact gun than you would find in a 45, typically on a larger platform. I guess I would tend to avoid Charter Arms and go for a classier gun. Actually, my personal choice is my 6-shot GP100 3" in .41 Special Clement conversion.

Old Dog said:

Well, 36 posts before someone brought up MIM parts, I guess that's a record. Since I've never personally had a MIM part break (on countless late model pistols and revolvers) nor have I ever known personally anyone (in spite of my fairly extensive shooting experience and relatively large circle of shooting buddies and acquaintances) who's had a MIM part break ... all I can say to that is ... whatever.

Having started in my law enforcement career with a S&W revolver, with my shooting experiences beginning back in the '60s with S&W revolvers, having used S&W revolvers until now, including many with the dreaded MIM parts, I can also relate that I've seen the cycles of S&W quality at its peak, ebb and wane, and eventually return to pretty doggone well made handguns. Ask THR member Mr. Borland, who knows a thing or two about S&W revolvers ... or Jerry Miculek, for that matter, what they think.

Frankly, I care not for opinions of those who chime in with casual remarks about the "cheaper, more fragile MIM parts" yet can't devote a couple extra minutes of typing to document their firsthand knowledge of such.

How many MIM parts have you personally seen break or otherwise fail, last poster?

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Um.....yeah. S&W pays Jerry Miculek a fortune for advertising & he's going to say anything negative about S&W? That would quiet that Ca Ching quickly.

Not strictly a .45 ACP but here is my only revolver that I currently own, and it happens to be capable of shooting .45 ACP and does so very accurately.

Shaq said:

Um.....yeah. S&W pays Jerry Miculek a fortune for advertising & he's going to say anything negative about S&W? That would quiet that Ca Ching quickly.

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True, but try as I might in searches of forums I have yet to find anyone report breaking a MIM S&W part in a current production revolver. It simply doesn't happen with any level of significance to warrant concern from a reliability standpoint.

I suspect that if all the people worried about MIM parts would consider just how uncommon parts breakage of properly produced MIM really is that they would just find something else to complain bitterly about. Consider that MIM is commonly used in many other industries to make parts for applications that are more stressful than a hammer or trigger in a revolver is going to see. This obsession with MIM is about equivalent to the wailing and gnashing of teeth years ago over Ruger investment cast parts, which was also a non issue. Fact is MIM produces more dimensionally consistent parts in production volume than machining from billet or forgings, and render parts that are 98-99% as dense as a forging with similar ability to be hardened and polished as needed. Because the MIM is still a sintered part there is a possibility that the ductile strength of the part to resist breakage from impact is a bit less, but in practice this has not proven to be a significant issue.

For those who can't get past this, I suggest replacing the hammer, trigger (order an over sized hand to get fitted), rebound slide, and cylinder stop with parts from Power Custom and having them fitted to your new revolver if desired. The fact that the hand and cylinder stop come over sized will also render a very tight lock up.

That said I don't think most new S&W revolvers will need such parts. I've looked at a few here recently, thinking of pickup a .357 Magnum, and the various S&W Performance Center guns I'm considering have all locked up pretty well, the timing has been right even with me grasping the cylinders trying to prevent the cylinder from turning to see if I can cause the DA hammer to fall out of lock up. The triggers have all been quite good too, albeit these are MIM parts that have been hard chromed which will make them smoother.

Coal Dragger said:

Not strictly a .45 ACP but here is my only revolver that I currently own, and it happens to be capable of shooting .45 ACP and does so very accurately.

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Now, dear Coaldragger, this one REALLY appeals to me, let me assure you of my boundless envy

Since the diameter of 45. Auto is smaller than that of 45 Colt i always wondered if this lead to a slight loss in accuracy?

Hm, just re-thought is and found my question is based on several assumptions:
- The spare cylinder is for a different cartridge
- it MIGHT be for 45 Colt or 454 Casull...or even a totally different cartridge

Could you enlighten me on my assumptions and/ or my question?

(What a beautiful gun!!!)

Greetings from across the pond!
Carsten

Carsten,

You're looking at a Model 83 Premier Grade, 6" bbl originally produced with a .454 Casull cylinder. I sent the revolver back a few months after receiving it for Freedom Arms to produce and install a .45 ACP cylinder, as well as perform their action job and install an over travel stop on the trigger. I also ordered a mounting base for a Trijicon RMR for times when running a red dot sight is advantageous since I already had the RMR. The ramp sights and fiber optic sights are Freedom Arms .380" and .430" (if memory serves), in order to accommodate the wide range of bullet weights and velocities. The two under cut Patridge style sights were made by a gentleman named Ken O'Neil, I never use the ramp fronts anymore because the undercut sights give a far superior sight picture.

Shooting .451" bullets in .45 ACP through the barrel that slugged .452" (measured with calipers not a micrometer so take it with a pinch of salt), has proven to be a non issue. Precision is still very good, probably another benefit of the line bored cylinder where the chambers are cut with the cylinder timed in the frame. Also a benefit of the very tight lock up provided by the tightly fit cylinder stop, there's just enough lateral play to allow the stop to freely engage the notches on the two cylinders.

I will note that assembling .45 ACP reloads using cast .452" 255gr semi-wadcutters produced better accuracy than some cheap bulk copper plated .451" bullets through this gun, in fairness these copper plated plinking bullets lag behind in my .451" barrels too. I've had very good results with .451" Hornady XTP bullets through this revolver loading to .460 Rowland and .45 Super data. My only complaint with shooting .45 ACP in the revolver is that without a case rim to provide a 90 degree angle at the base of the case, there is little other than brass expansion in the chamber to stop carbon from building up on the back plate of the frame. So after a few hundred rounds you get a sooty black ring around the firing pin. This doesn't happen when shooting .454 Casull, and the .454 is notably cleaner to shoot... seems like .45 ACP is always perpetually dirty and sooty in every .45 ACP I own.

I got one of those Freedom Arms guns with 45LC, 45ACP, 454 Casull and 45 Win Mag cylinders. So far all I have done is look at it. Broke my leg a while back and can not get to the ranch with out help. Guess I have something to look forward to. Am not convinced I want to shoot 454 in a pistol. I sot it in a rifle and it really gave a jolt. My buddy ran a pawn shop in Alaska and said he had quite a few for resale.

Have a Lipsey's 3.75 inch all stainless Bisley 45acp/45 Colt arriving next week. Wish I knew how to post a photo.

Also have. 3.75 inch stainless 45 acp Birdshead. And a 45 Convertible New Vaquero in stainless. And a couple Blued Blackhawk convertibles, 4.62 inch.

I love 45 acp in a revolver.

Or you can go old school... S&W 625-1, with 3 inch barrel, like mine.



Deaf

I just bought a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Auto. It's really neat to be able to throw
six .45 auto cartridges in there and fire them. No moon clips or other paraphernalia.

Zeke

I own and love the ruger Blackhawk in 45 auto.

I love my 625JM. Its a fun gun to shoot. I put a small Bushnell TRS-25 red dot on mine and it makes it crazy accurate. The moon clips make it fast to reload. There is also a company called EZ moon clips which make a plastic moon clip which you can load and unload ammo without tools. I was a little concerned at first but they actually work. I think I like shooting it more then my 1911. The 625 is almost like shooting a 629 using 44 Special. The great thing about the revolver is if you reload you have all your spent brass in one place and you don't have to pick them up.

I had a plain 625, and foolishly sold it

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LOL, Me, too!

357mag357 said:

I love my 625JM.

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I have one of those myself. I love it, but at the same time my particular example has some gremlins.

It appears my hammer boss may be bent. As of consequence my DA trigger pull is well over the capabilities of my Lyman digital trigger scale (12+lbs. Est. maybe 14lbs). It also has some wear on the hammer where it's riding on the frame. It's also horribly gritty.

The polygonal rifling also leads pretty badly with my particular 200gr LSWC load.

But the SA trigger is still very nice and crisp and the 625JM shoots like freakin' laser! Even the leading seems to be only superficial and self limiting.

I'm debating what to do with it. My local gunsmith didn't do it any favors. I should really send it in to the big blue mothership and let them have a crack at it. But sending it somewhere like Cylinder & Slide sounds more attractive and probably about the same price.

My Charter Arms Pit Bull is right beside me at my desk .It is a down and dirty self defense gun. Loaded with Matts full wadcutters I feel it will handle just about any close range situation. I did get a laser grip for it .

zb338 said:

I just bought a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Auto. It's really neat to be able to throw
six .45 auto cartridges in there and fire them. No moon clips

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Moon clips for a single-action revolver? Now that's an enterprising, if impossible, idea!