Browning BPS Vs. 870 Wingmaster vs. something else

If I could shoot a Wingmaster, BPS and Ithaca before purchasing it would be a no brainer for me-the one I shot the best. Nothing else really matters. Fit is king when it comes to shotguns.

Got to handle a relative's 1969 870TC this week which I didn't even know he owned until shotguns came up in conversation - OMG. Barely used and almost mint, lovely action that still feels tight and new, not even broken in. Beautiful wood, makes mine look ordinary.

cdb1 said:

If I could shoot a Wingmaster, BPS and Ithaca before purchasing it would be a no brainer for me-the one I shot the best. Nothing else really matters. Fit is king when it comes to shotguns.

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I agree that fit is king. However, although I have never owned or shot a BPS or Ithaca 37, have owned several 870's. IMO, it depends upon the grade and year made as to which 870 you might like. My favorite skeet 870 had a 26" IC VR barrel bought LNIB for $110 in 1969 from a LGS in Omaha (without the box) but it had a 2-1/4" drop at the heel, allowing me to see the entire VR with a solid cheek weld. Others I have owned ranged from 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" drop at the heel, and did not fit me nearly as well. All had a factory thick ventilated recoil pads and ~14" LOP.

goldpelican said:

Got to handle a relative's 1969 870TC this week which I didn't even know he owned until shotguns came up in conversation - OMG. Barely used and almost mint, lovely action that still feels tight and new, not even broken in. Beautiful wood, makes mine look ordinary.

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Did you get to shoot it? If not, your loss. I shot a TB for one round of trap just for the experience. I am/was lousy at trap.

Back in the day of your gun, Rem 870 Wingmaster TB/TC (with the high comb) and SB/SC grade wood was absolutely fantastic walnut. I suppose the 1100 similar grades were the same but I was fixated upon the 870. Mine had nicely figured but field grade wood. When I worked at Roberts' Shooting Park (Elkhorn NE '69-'70) I had the opportunity to see many fine grades of 870 wood (as well as beautiful wood on Win 12's, Krieghoff's, Win 101's, et al) especially on the trap ranges. Even had a guy show up one day with an 870 TD grade (!) to shoot one round of trap, and IIRC I don't think even broke half of the clays. I pulled that round so I got to see it well. Even as a teenager I was dumbfounded that the guy even shot a safe queen that beautiful. The wood had such a nice burl grain! After the round he even let me fondle and shoulder it. Talk about a BBQ gun! 1911 BBQ enthusiasts these days can't hold a candle to that fine gun.

Fancy Trap guns are meant to be shot also. I've shot a Kreighoff, a Ljutic Mono-Gun, several Perazzis, Rem. 3200's, Ithaca 4's, 870 and 1100 TB's, BT-99's Model 12's done by Simmons, even owned a Win. 101 for a while. But I do like shooting my 870 Tactical Magnum (with the extended mag removed, and a 28" barrel with a Turkey Full in it, instead of the 20") and the looks I get, until I shoot a 23 or 4.

entropy said:

Fancy Trap guns are meant to be shot also. I've shot a Kreighoff, a Ljutic Mono-Gun, several Perazzis, Rem. 3200's, Ithaca 4's, 870 and 1100 TB's, BT-99's Model 12's done by Simmons, even owned a Win. 101 for a while. But I do like shooting my 870 Tactical Magnum (with the extended mag removed, and a 28" barrel with a Turkey Full in it, instead of the 20") and the looks I get, until I shoot a 23 or 4.

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Entropy: Yes, fancy ones are meant to be shot but only by the folks that can afford for the value to depreciate drastically, and I am speaking directly to the 870 TD. That is a safe queen. I can see the B/C grades both in trap and skeet guns being shot regularly. They had the better wood but no engraving. Those grades were common among the more well-to-do folks that owned them back in the day, but us lesser folks shot the same specialized "field" gun with at least as much proficiency as the folks that were better off. It started as a whim, but I remember shooting skeet #4 station high house birds using only the right arm (gun mounted on the right shoulder) and hitting them so regularly with the 870 that the range masters showed me off to new shooters as to how not to stop the gun during the swing. I think they did that to sell more rounds of skeet, to be honest.

And I never, ever, went 25 straight in one round of skeet, with both hands. Station 3 or 5 were my bad luck. Don't know why. Sigh...

Glad you are in the 870 brotherhood.

Try to shoulder all three, whichever fits their best, and swings nicely is the one. My go to Grouse gun is a 20ga 870 Special field, next is a Rem 17 (same as a Ithaca 37), was offered a BPS at a ridiculous price but it was way too heavy. IMHO a '37 is in your future

If you're open to suggestions the Model 12 Winchester is arguably the finest pump shotgun ever mass produced. There are still good ones around here's proof. Both of these are in 99%+ condition. I've seen some equally as good in gun stores.



There is no stamping or plastic in a Model 12. The receiver is machined from a block of steel. Every part of it is built to last.

i own a 20ga,16ga and a 12ga winchester model 12,s, and all you say is true and thats what killed the model 12 to costly to make and be at a lower sale price. remington ran into the same thing with their model 31(second picture),but saw the light and came out with the model 870 in 1950. while winchester continued with the model 12 untill the earier 60,s, allowing the remington 870 to gain a great footing with the hunters of the world and also helping is the fact that all the parts including extra barrels can be bought and installed by the owner-hunter with out the aid of a gunsmith.eastbank.

DDDWho said:

If you're open to suggestions the Model 12 Winchester is arguably the finest pump shotgun ever mass produced.

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Agreed for the most part-but shooting steel loads might pose a problem.

Remington Wingmaster with "Light Contour" barrel will outhandle new Ithaca 37 or BPS. Used market is full of bargains. Today I examined custom 10ga BPS with plain 20" Magna Ported barrel (cut from original length of 24"), custom Briley choke system, front and rear "Ghost Ring Sights". All this was professional grade no hobby job. The sight system was sweated on and in addition held in place for hex head screws and when one looked through the sight system only center blade was visible there was no interference from protective wings on the front sight). Top notch work with all components matching finish of the entire gun. Basically I was looking at 10ga "Wilson Combat" pump gun. The price was very reasonable $500.

Not sure what original user had in mind, but no pennies were saved in putting together that set up. The only downside is any extra choke tubes will expensive and have to come from Briley, but with IC and Full provided I don't see need for any other being IC can be used for slugs and full for BK shot or turkey loads. Upside is that with Briley choke system most likely done by Briley there is next to zero concern about POI issues which can occur if choke system is not threaded in correctly.

I bought one of my sons an engraved 12ga BPS many years ago. He absolutely loves it. It is heavier than the two older 870 Wingmasters I have - one 2 3/4 and the other 3". Since I only shoot upland game, I used the 2 3/4" nearly all the time. Clean up the BPS once in a while and you'll have an outstanding (albeit heavy) shotgun.

Mike