NIGHTLORD40K
Member
My LGS has a LNIB DP51 with spare mag asking $350- has me tempted. Anybody have good\bad 1st hand experience with these?
Daewoo DP51?
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Monac
Member
I have a Daewoo DH 40, which is the same gun as yours but chambered in 40 S&W. I have not shot it a lot, but when I did, it gave me no problems, and the accuracy was reasonable considering how little I shot it. By today's standards, $350 strikes me as a low price for a 9mm example in as-new condition. OTOH, I do not know if full-size 9mm pistols with aluminum frames are in much demand now.
As you may know from handling the gun, the big novelty of the DH 51 and the DH 40 was the trigger mechanism, which was a design first worked on by FN of Belgium, and perfected by Daewoo. When the hammer is at full cock, it may simply be pushed forward (toward the muzzle) with a finger until it is fully down. The gun is then safe, but the hammer spring is still compressed. When the trigger is pulled in this condition, the hammer first flips back to the full rear position, and then is dropped. The trigger pull is pretty much the same as any DA automatic in SA mode.
The gun has a manual safety, and can also be used as a conventional DA automatic. That is, it can be carried fully uncocked, or carried cocked-and-locked. It has been a few years since I handled the gun, and I cannot now recall if the safety also functioned as a conventional decocker.
All this makes the trigger mechanism unusual and complex (I assume), so few people will know how to work on it. The gun has also not been imported for some years, so parts are no doubt difficult to come by. But the initial quality was sound with regards to materials, workmanship, and design, as far as I could tell.
For the price being asked, I think this gun would be a reasonable choice as a weapon, and an unbeatable choice as a collector's item for those interested in mechanically unusual pistols (which is why I bought mine).
The pistol's trigger mechanism had a trade name like Safe Action or Fast Action, but I no longer remember what it was. FN had a name for their version, too, but they never marketed it.
There was a very long article about the 40 caliber Daewoo in American Handgunner back in the 1990's. It was mainly the accuracy problems Daewoo had with the 40 caliber model, and how they solved them.
PS - I am wrong about these guns no longer being imported, as boom boom's post below shows. I am glad to hear they are not gone from the market.
As you may know from handling the gun, the big novelty of the DH 51 and the DH 40 was the trigger mechanism, which was a design first worked on by FN of Belgium, and perfected by Daewoo. When the hammer is at full cock, it may simply be pushed forward (toward the muzzle) with a finger until it is fully down. The gun is then safe, but the hammer spring is still compressed. When the trigger is pulled in this condition, the hammer first flips back to the full rear position, and then is dropped. The trigger pull is pretty much the same as any DA automatic in SA mode.
The gun has a manual safety, and can also be used as a conventional DA automatic. That is, it can be carried fully uncocked, or carried cocked-and-locked. It has been a few years since I handled the gun, and I cannot now recall if the safety also functioned as a conventional decocker.
All this makes the trigger mechanism unusual and complex (I assume), so few people will know how to work on it. The gun has also not been imported for some years, so parts are no doubt difficult to come by. But the initial quality was sound with regards to materials, workmanship, and design, as far as I could tell.
For the price being asked, I think this gun would be a reasonable choice as a weapon, and an unbeatable choice as a collector's item for those interested in mechanically unusual pistols (which is why I bought mine).
The pistol's trigger mechanism had a trade name like Safe Action or Fast Action, but I no longer remember what it was. FN had a name for their version, too, but they never marketed it.
There was a very long article about the 40 caliber Daewoo in American Handgunner back in the 1990's. It was mainly the accuracy problems Daewoo had with the 40 caliber model, and how they solved them.
PS - I am wrong about these guns no longer being imported, as boom boom's post below shows. I am glad to hear they are not gone from the market.
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RPRNY
Member
http://www.guns.com/2012/12/12/daewoo-dp-51-k5/
May be helpful. The Review from 2012 suggests a $350 - $400 range.
May be helpful. The Review from 2012 suggests a $350 - $400 range.
Lionheart Industries of Redmond WA is the current importer under the LH-9 model number so you might be able to get parts from them.
https://www.lionheartindustries.com/product/lh9n/
https://www.lionheartindustries.com/product/lh9n/
Walt Sherrill
Member
I've had a couple of DP-51s and a DH-40. I now have a Lionheart LH9. They're all fine guns. (My first DP-51 was a real tackdriver and I regret trading it away; the second one was almost as good -- but the DH40, while reliable, was never as accurate in my hands. It wasn't terrible, however -- and it may have been me, not the gun.) I like the guns a lot, and wouldn't hesitate to get another DP-51 if the price was right -- but I haven't seen one for sale for a long time. The DP-51 is (or was) the standard military pistol for South Korea, where it's called the K5, and I think it's still used there. Here's a link from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_Precision_Industries_K5
While Monac, above, says otherwise, I don't think the trigger "Fast-Action" mechanism was based on anything developed by FN. The only FN system I know of that seemed even vaguely similar was used in the Single Action Hi-Power. THE DP-51/LH9 design is very different than the Hi-Power, if for no other reason than it's DA/SA.While some of the later FN semi-autos were DA/SA but I don't think any of them had a hammer-down SA mode. (Monac may know something I don't...)
S&W Model 59 or 59xx mags will work in the gun, but will stick out about 3/8" farther than the stock mags. (I have a bunch for my LH9, and also used them with the DP-51. You can make them work in the DH40 with a little modification, too. (I don't know of any other double-stack S&W mags that can be made to work in the DH40.)
The DA/SA Fast-Action deign (they use another name, too -- maybe "tri-action"?) uses a hinged hammer. The trigger can be used in 1) DA, with or without the safety, 2) SA with safety, or more unusually, 3) SA, with hammer pushed forward/down, with safety or without. In that final mode, as you pull the trigger, it flips back but very noticeably, and gives you a CLEAR and DISTINCT stage that is VERY easy to use. It's a bit like a two-stage DA trigger, which starts as DA, and changes to SA, with a "safe" or stage break in the middle.
Parts may be an issue for the older guns, but the new LH9 is being imported and the parts appear to be interchangeable.
You could do worse, and the guns have a reputation for being very durable/reliable.
While Monac, above, says otherwise, I don't think the trigger "Fast-Action" mechanism was based on anything developed by FN. The only FN system I know of that seemed even vaguely similar was used in the Single Action Hi-Power. THE DP-51/LH9 design is very different than the Hi-Power, if for no other reason than it's DA/SA.While some of the later FN semi-autos were DA/SA but I don't think any of them had a hammer-down SA mode. (Monac may know something I don't...)
S&W Model 59 or 59xx mags will work in the gun, but will stick out about 3/8" farther than the stock mags. (I have a bunch for my LH9, and also used them with the DP-51. You can make them work in the DH40 with a little modification, too. (I don't know of any other double-stack S&W mags that can be made to work in the DH40.)
The DA/SA Fast-Action deign (they use another name, too -- maybe "tri-action"?) uses a hinged hammer. The trigger can be used in 1) DA, with or without the safety, 2) SA with safety, or more unusually, 3) SA, with hammer pushed forward/down, with safety or without. In that final mode, as you pull the trigger, it flips back but very noticeably, and gives you a CLEAR and DISTINCT stage that is VERY easy to use. It's a bit like a two-stage DA trigger, which starts as DA, and changes to SA, with a "safe" or stage break in the middle.
Parts may be an issue for the older guns, but the new LH9 is being imported and the parts appear to be interchangeable.
You could do worse, and the guns have a reputation for being very durable/reliable.
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OP
OP
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I also go for quirky, but reliable, shooters so I went ahead and snagged it. I agree, the quality appears to be very good- which is funny considering how terrible their cars were......lol. I'll add some pics and a range report soon! P.s.- sorry bout the grainy pics, my camera stinks....
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For others wanting the original DP-51 Issue before the last issue of the Firearm News had Sarco selling some DP-51's for $350. They might also have magazines. Have no idea whether they still have them in stock.
Like your sig line from the Gordon Dickson series.
Like your sig line from the Gordon Dickson series.
One in very good to excellent cndition is worth $300. Reason being for little more there are gen III S&Ws. While S&W is not a better gun reasons most would pick one over Daewoo are very obvious.
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NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Not sure where you live, but round here in South FL, 3rd gen Smiths are in the $550-750 range......and climbing fast! Besides, I already have a few of stashed away here somwhere-
Walt Sherrill
Member
I've had several 3rd Gen S&Ws and several DP and DH models. I prefer the Daewoo.
Parts for the S&W guns are starting to be harder to get, too. (I found this out with a S&W 4506 a while back, but Numrich generally has most of them.). S&W doesn't have some parts for these guns. (But the same is true of some of the earlier Ruger semi-autos, too.
Parts for the S&W guns are starting to be harder to get, too. (I found this out with a S&W 4506 a while back, but Numrich generally has most of them.). S&W doesn't have some parts for these guns. (But the same is true of some of the earlier Ruger semi-autos, too.
kBob
Member
A buddy of mine has had a Korean Wonder Nine since back then and occasionally enjoys telling me he likes it and that I should have listened to him and bought one then.
Nightlord40k,
The shy Dorsai are their snipers. (and now to the tune of My Darlin' Clemintime....) "On the wagon, on the wagon, on the wagon doing fine, 'til I met with Gordie Dickson and we drank a ton of wine."
Oh course "If it wasna for the Dorsai what would yea do? Ya wouldna have yer freedom to take a drink or two, ya wouldna have yer choice of the devil or the blue were it not for the strength of the Dorsai!"
I do miss my BC (Before Children) days of con going.......
-kBob
Nightlord40k,
The shy Dorsai are their snipers. (and now to the tune of My Darlin' Clemintime....) "On the wagon, on the wagon, on the wagon doing fine, 'til I met with Gordie Dickson and we drank a ton of wine."
Oh course "If it wasna for the Dorsai what would yea do? Ya wouldna have yer freedom to take a drink or two, ya wouldna have yer choice of the devil or the blue were it not for the strength of the Dorsai!"
I do miss my BC (Before Children) days of con going.......
-kBob
Monac
Member
I believe I first read about the FN development of this kind of trigger mechanism in the book "The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol" by R. Blake Stevens, but that's been out of print a long time. You can find scattered references to the FN gun on the Internet, like here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/fast-action-the-trigger-that-almost…….251515/
and here:
http://modernfirearms.net/handguns/hg/skor/daewoo-dp-51-e.html
There is even a YouTube preview for a short e-book about it:
Like I said, FN never got it working to their satisfaction, so they never put it on the market. They made prototypes and samples only.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/fast-action-the-trigger-that-almost…….251515/
and here:
http://modernfirearms.net/handguns/hg/skor/daewoo-dp-51-e.html
There is even a YouTube preview for a short e-book about it:
Like I said, FN never got it working to their satisfaction, so they never put it on the market. They made prototypes and samples only.
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Walt Sherrill
Member
I think FN did get it working, and a lot of folks have, over the years, installed the system on their BHP and FN High Powers. I'm not sure it was ever available as a factory option on a NEW BHP, but I think I did see some NEW SFS-equipped BHPs offered on CDNN several years ago. The SFS system was available for owners from some source, and Cylinder & Slide offered it as a upgrade. If FN isn't selling the parts, somebody is.
The FN system was created for the SINGLE ACTION HI-POWER, and was for an entirely different type of trigger/fire mechanism. To use HP's SFS [Safety Fast Shooting] system the shooter just pushes the hammer down. Doing that flips the safety lever up. Then, pressing the safety down (releasing it) re-cocks the hammer. All very natural.
It's an interesting system that allows some folks to feel more safe when carrying a SA gun (hammer down) but you must still release the safety before the gun can be fired, either way. If you keep the safety on and your finger out of the trigger guard, either system is equally safe and idiot proof. With the DP-51, you CAN engage the safety is you choose to do so with the hammer cocked or down.
The internal mechanisms of the two guns couldn't be more different. (The HP design doesn't use a trigger bar in the frame -- the connection between the trigger and the hammer is in the SLIDE, which, I think, is called the sear connector! The HP (or copies based on the same design) is the only design I've ever seen that does that. There may be others, but they're certainly NOT common.)
The DP-51 system is is a DA/SA system that, when used in SA mode, allows you to use press the hinged trigger down.. Doing that gives you what feels like a two-stage trigger. You can cock and carry it it like any other SA gun, however, and start from cocked & locked, safety engaged. The first stage is pronounced, while the second stage is lighter and more like a typical SA trigger.
Here's an explanation on the FN Forum (and a video) that explains the SFS system. http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-hi-pow...st-shooting-system-browning-fnh-hi-power.html
Saying the DaeWoo system is based on a FN design is like comparing a 6-speed automatic transmission to a 6-speed manual transmission, and saying the automatic transmission is based on the manual transmission because they both have 6 speeds. The FN and DP "Safe" system are really THAT different.
The FN system was created for the SINGLE ACTION HI-POWER, and was for an entirely different type of trigger/fire mechanism. To use HP's SFS [Safety Fast Shooting] system the shooter just pushes the hammer down. Doing that flips the safety lever up. Then, pressing the safety down (releasing it) re-cocks the hammer. All very natural.
It's an interesting system that allows some folks to feel more safe when carrying a SA gun (hammer down) but you must still release the safety before the gun can be fired, either way. If you keep the safety on and your finger out of the trigger guard, either system is equally safe and idiot proof. With the DP-51, you CAN engage the safety is you choose to do so with the hammer cocked or down.
The internal mechanisms of the two guns couldn't be more different. (The HP design doesn't use a trigger bar in the frame -- the connection between the trigger and the hammer is in the SLIDE, which, I think, is called the sear connector! The HP (or copies based on the same design) is the only design I've ever seen that does that. There may be others, but they're certainly NOT common.)
The DP-51 system is is a DA/SA system that, when used in SA mode, allows you to use press the hinged trigger down.. Doing that gives you what feels like a two-stage trigger. You can cock and carry it it like any other SA gun, however, and start from cocked & locked, safety engaged. The first stage is pronounced, while the second stage is lighter and more like a typical SA trigger.
Here's an explanation on the FN Forum (and a video) that explains the SFS system. http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-hi-pow...st-shooting-system-browning-fnh-hi-power.html
Saying the DaeWoo system is based on a FN design is like comparing a 6-speed automatic transmission to a 6-speed manual transmission, and saying the automatic transmission is based on the manual transmission because they both have 6 speeds. The FN and DP "Safe" system are really THAT different.
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OP
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
In any case, its a neat quirk that helped sell me on this impressive pistol.
Oh, and is a DCT an automatically-shifted manual, or a dry-clutch automatic: you decide! Either way they shift funny and me no likey........
Monac
Member
Thanks, Walt Sherrill! I have not read about this subject in long time, and you know more about it than I do.
I have to say that from your description, I can see why the FN system never caught on. Given that it engages the manual safety, which must then be released before firing, it seems rather pointless to me. I guess it is an added safety factor, but at the cost of excessive complexity.
I have to say that from your description, I can see why the FN system never caught on. Given that it engages the manual safety, which must then be released before firing, it seems rather pointless to me. I guess it is an added safety factor, but at the cost of excessive complexity.
bannockburn
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Walt Sherrill
Very interesting! Never heard of the SFS or Safety Fast Shooting system before. The only different firing system I can recall was the one Browning used with their BDM pistol back in the early '90s. Thanks for the enlightening info.
Very interesting! Never heard of the SFS or Safety Fast Shooting system before. The only different firing system I can recall was the one Browning used with their BDM pistol back in the early '90s. Thanks for the enlightening info.
Walt Sherrill
Member
bannockburn said:
I've seen and handled the BDM, but never went much farther. Seems as though it was somewhat similar to the 3rd Gen S&Ws and it WAS DA/SA. I don't know if there was (or FN ever made something like) a SFS system for it. The ARCUS pistols come in a HI-Power version, and a design (DA/SA) similar to the BDM/3rd Gen S&W.
Monac
Member
I have a BDM. It is not a good gun, but not because of the trigger mechanism. It is because the accuracy of my example is very poor, and it does not feed reliably. At least one type of Fiocchi 147gr HP would not even chamber, which was a new experience for me.*
The gimmick with the trigger mechanism centered around a small slotted screw in left side of the slide. The screw could be turned to align with either a "P" or an "R" stamped on the slide. The magazine baseplate was formed into a small screwdriver tip so you would always have a tool to turn it.
When the slot was was aligned with "P", the gun was in "Pistol" mode, and the trigger mechanism worked in a conventional DA, Walther-PP, manner. I cannot remember if the manual safety acted as a decocker, or if there was a cocked-and-locked setting instead.
When screw slot was aligned with R, the gun was in "Revolver" mode. Then, the hammer could ONLY be thumb-cocked. Neither racking the slide to put a round in the chamber nor firing the gun would cock it. Unless you thumb-cocked it, every shot was DA-only. I think you could still apply the manual safety, but once again, I do not recall if there was cocked-and-locked setting.
This worked all right, for the small amount of shooting I ever did with the gun. It did not have a particularly good trigger pull, but I don't remember it being particularly bad, either.
I think the gun got a poor reputation pretty quickly, but for the reasons I mentioned at the top, not the dual-mode firing mechanism. The trigger worked all right, like that of the Daewoo, but neither of them seemed to fill any deeply felt need. The Glock trigger mechanism, which went in the complete opposite direction of irreducible simplicity, obviously did.
*By this I don't mean it would not feed; I mean that if you dropped a round of it directly in the chamber, it would stick out the back too far to allow the slide to go into battery.
PS - I believe the Zastava 999 pistol was also designed with some kind of trick trigger mechanism, adjustable by a small lever on top of the slide. This did not make it beyond the prototype or maybe a pre-production batch; it is not on the current guns. But the prototype photograph was widely distributed and can still be seen on the Internet.
The gimmick with the trigger mechanism centered around a small slotted screw in left side of the slide. The screw could be turned to align with either a "P" or an "R" stamped on the slide. The magazine baseplate was formed into a small screwdriver tip so you would always have a tool to turn it.
When the slot was was aligned with "P", the gun was in "Pistol" mode, and the trigger mechanism worked in a conventional DA, Walther-PP, manner. I cannot remember if the manual safety acted as a decocker, or if there was a cocked-and-locked setting instead.
When screw slot was aligned with R, the gun was in "Revolver" mode. Then, the hammer could ONLY be thumb-cocked. Neither racking the slide to put a round in the chamber nor firing the gun would cock it. Unless you thumb-cocked it, every shot was DA-only. I think you could still apply the manual safety, but once again, I do not recall if there was cocked-and-locked setting.
This worked all right, for the small amount of shooting I ever did with the gun. It did not have a particularly good trigger pull, but I don't remember it being particularly bad, either.
I think the gun got a poor reputation pretty quickly, but for the reasons I mentioned at the top, not the dual-mode firing mechanism. The trigger worked all right, like that of the Daewoo, but neither of them seemed to fill any deeply felt need. The Glock trigger mechanism, which went in the complete opposite direction of irreducible simplicity, obviously did.
*By this I don't mean it would not feed; I mean that if you dropped a round of it directly in the chamber, it would stick out the back too far to allow the slide to go into battery.
PS - I believe the Zastava 999 pistol was also designed with some kind of trick trigger mechanism, adjustable by a small lever on top of the slide. This did not make it beyond the prototype or maybe a pre-production batch; it is not on the current guns. But the prototype photograph was widely distributed and can still be seen on the Internet.
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