I'm trying to make a cheap practice round that replicates my 124gr Gold Dot carry ammo, which Midway says clocks in at 1150 FPS. Berry's says to use lead or low to mid range jacketed data, AND that the bullets are rated for 1250 FPS. I can achieve the 1150 FPS according to my Speer manual, but it will require a near maximum charge of Power Pistol. So, when loading plated, do you have to meet both requirements of low to mid range data AND 1250 FPS or less? Or just one of them?
Plated Bullets, again
- Thread starter lpsharp88
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While there are exceptions, plated bullets, owing to their lead bullet heritage, will generally be 0.356 inches in diameter in the 9mm Luger world. In contrast, jacketed bullets are 0.355 inches in diameter. The difference in diameter means that more energy is required to swage the plated bullet into the rifling than jacketed bullets and the fact this energy is required shortly after the bullet starts to move out of the case means that the point at which pressure within the case reaches its peak occurs earlier.
To more nearly match the performance of the bullet to published data, the manufacturers of plated bullets generally recommend using lead bullet data or low/mid-range jacketed data and that recommendation should be observed. If you cannot obtain the performance you are looking for from the published data with the powder you are using, it might be necessary to switch to a different powder.
To more nearly match the performance of the bullet to published data, the manufacturers of plated bullets generally recommend using lead bullet data or low/mid-range jacketed data and that recommendation should be observed. If you cannot obtain the performance you are looking for from the published data with the powder you are using, it might be necessary to switch to a different powder.
Right, but which maximum do I need to heed? Charge or velocity? Or both? In my case, I'd go above their recommended range for charge before I touch their maximum recommended velocity.
So it's more of a whichever one you hit first type of deal.
There is plenty of plated data out there now to do what you want. The Berrys 124 gr HBRN-TP will easily handle the pressure and velocity. So will the Powerbond 124 Gr HP.
Right now RMR has some jacketed stuff that rivals plated prices.
Right now RMR has some jacketed stuff that rivals plated prices.
I was actually just on their website looking around. Very good prices, even before you apply the THR discount
Schwing
Member
My experience with plated bullets is that, while you certainly can drive them hard without leading, you won't necessarily get accurate loads at higher velocities than you would with regular lead bullets. What I mean is that, if you have a plain lead bullet that is accurate with say 5 grains of titegroup, that same bullet is most likely going to be accurate with the same 5 grains of titegroup even if you plate it. If you push it harder, it might not lead your barrel, but it won't necessarily be accurate either.
Bullet diameter is far more important to accuracy than what a bullet has as an exterior coating. I am not talking about jacketed, that is an entirely different topic. Plating, or coating bullets doesn't change the BHN of the core and does very little to nothing to increase/decrease accuracy.
Bullet diameter is far more important to accuracy than what a bullet has as an exterior coating. I am not talking about jacketed, that is an entirely different topic. Plating, or coating bullets doesn't change the BHN of the core and does very little to nothing to increase/decrease accuracy.
I'm more concerned with safety in loading right now. Looks like I'll give RMR a look since they have well priced FMJ projectiles and I won't have to worry about it at that point.
Zendude
Member
There are many ways to go with plated bullets. Xtreme makes an inexpensive 124 grain .355 bullet with a heavier plating that can take velocities above 1250 fps. I don't know how accurate it is at such high velocities though.
Schwing
Member
I just bought 2k of the RMR 115 grain FMJs myself
I haven't had time to work up many loads but for less than .08 each, they look pretty dang good!
How fast does that gold dot ammo go out of your pistol? If you are shooting something less than a 4" barrel, I bet your velocities will be lower.
Rather than trying to match the claimed velocity, I'd try to match the actual velocity out of your pistol.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
RMR 9mm 124gr 9mm MPR JHP
https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...ow-point-made-in-house-by-rmr/?v=7516fd43adaa
$99.00/1000, free shipping, 10% discount with PM only code. (PM me if your interested)
The RMR 124Jacketed RN and FNs are $82/k - 5%. (free shipping)
I have been really happy with everything I have ordered from RMR at they are great to do business with.
Nothing wrong with Berrys but I would say give RMR a try, Jake is kind enough to help THR members by offering us the discount.
With everything you are concerned about pressure, and with plated you don't want to exceed the velocity the bullet is rated for.
In a 9mm pistol with a 124 you are probably going to run up against a pressure limit before you exceed the velocity the bullet is rated for in your case 1250fps.
I checked Alliants data no loads for PP with a 124???? 115s and 147s listed.
Lyman lists a 124 JHP max charge of 5.6gr PP, and a 125gr JHP MAX charge of 5.7gr of PP, and a 120 lead with a MAX charge of 5.6gr of PP.
for the 124 Start 5.0gr 1043fps MAX 5.6 1112 fps so to match vels you are going to be at listed MAX charges (and may still be a little slow)
But for practice if they are around 1100 I don't think you will feel a big difference, ( I can only reliably feel about 25fps)
Also you may not be getting 1150 with the Gold Dots.
Lots of people really like BE86 for the full power stuff in 9mm, less flashy than PP to.
Alliant lists a vel of 1170 with a 124 JHP (type unknown) with a MAX of 5.9gr of BE86.
(I stopped at 5.7 in my workups, no pressure signs but vels seemed to indicate I was gettting to +P pressures, since there is no such thing as a free lunch)
For your carry ammo these guys have a good price on Gold Dots
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/speer-gold-dot-le-duty-9mm-ammo-124-gr-jhp-53618-p-3526.aspx $21.99/box of 50 (non +P flavor)
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/spe...luger-ammo-124-grain-p-jhp-53617-p-58577.aspx $24.99/50 (+P)
Beats the $25 for the small "consumer" boxes of 20
These numbers are for the +P Gold Dots listed at 1220fps (you appear to be using the non +P ones at 1150)
5" 9mm 1911
String: 7
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 2:40:50 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1246
Low Vel: 1230
Ave Vel: 1238
Ext Spread: 16
Std Dev: 6
Speer 124gr Gold Dot +P 53617
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1239 153.636 422.635
1241 153.884 424.001
1246 154.504 427.424
1234 153.016 419.231
1230 152.52 416.518
Same round in my 3" XD subcompact
String: 3
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 4:16:10 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1149
Low Vel: 1118
Ave Vel: 1133
Ext Spread: 31
Std Dev: 11
Speer 124 Gold Dor +P 58617 XD Subcompact 3 inch
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1130 140.12 351.544
1149 142.476 363.466
1139 141.236 357.167
1129 139.996 350.922
1118 138.632 344.118
So 2" of barrel cost 100fps (or gained depending on how you look at it)
So if the 1150 # was from a 5" barrel you are probably only getting about 1100 from a 4",
Lymans Data used a 4" barrel.
https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...ow-point-made-in-house-by-rmr/?v=7516fd43adaa
$99.00/1000, free shipping, 10% discount with PM only code. (PM me if your interested)
The RMR 124Jacketed RN and FNs are $82/k - 5%. (free shipping)
I have been really happy with everything I have ordered from RMR at they are great to do business with.
Nothing wrong with Berrys but I would say give RMR a try, Jake is kind enough to help THR members by offering us the discount.
With everything you are concerned about pressure, and with plated you don't want to exceed the velocity the bullet is rated for.
In a 9mm pistol with a 124 you are probably going to run up against a pressure limit before you exceed the velocity the bullet is rated for in your case 1250fps.
I checked Alliants data no loads for PP with a 124???? 115s and 147s listed.
Lyman lists a 124 JHP max charge of 5.6gr PP, and a 125gr JHP MAX charge of 5.7gr of PP, and a 120 lead with a MAX charge of 5.6gr of PP.
for the 124 Start 5.0gr 1043fps MAX 5.6 1112 fps so to match vels you are going to be at listed MAX charges (and may still be a little slow)
But for practice if they are around 1100 I don't think you will feel a big difference, ( I can only reliably feel about 25fps)
Also you may not be getting 1150 with the Gold Dots.
Lots of people really like BE86 for the full power stuff in 9mm, less flashy than PP to.
Alliant lists a vel of 1170 with a 124 JHP (type unknown) with a MAX of 5.9gr of BE86.
(I stopped at 5.7 in my workups, no pressure signs but vels seemed to indicate I was gettting to +P pressures, since there is no such thing as a free lunch)
For your carry ammo these guys have a good price on Gold Dots
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/speer-gold-dot-le-duty-9mm-ammo-124-gr-jhp-53618-p-3526.aspx $21.99/box of 50 (non +P flavor)
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/spe...luger-ammo-124-grain-p-jhp-53617-p-58577.aspx $24.99/50 (+P)
Beats the $25 for the small "consumer" boxes of 20
These numbers are for the +P Gold Dots listed at 1220fps (you appear to be using the non +P ones at 1150)
5" 9mm 1911
String: 7
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 2:40:50 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1246
Low Vel: 1230
Ave Vel: 1238
Ext Spread: 16
Std Dev: 6
Speer 124gr Gold Dot +P 53617
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1239 153.636 422.635
1241 153.884 424.001
1246 154.504 427.424
1234 153.016 419.231
1230 152.52 416.518
Same round in my 3" XD subcompact
String: 3
Date: 3/31/2017
Time: 4:16:10 PM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1149
Low Vel: 1118
Ave Vel: 1133
Ext Spread: 31
Std Dev: 11
Speer 124 Gold Dor +P 58617 XD Subcompact 3 inch
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1130 140.12 351.544
1149 142.476 363.466
1139 141.236 357.167
1129 139.996 350.922
1118 138.632 344.118
So 2" of barrel cost 100fps (or gained depending on how you look at it)
So if the 1150 # was from a 5" barrel you are probably only getting about 1100 from a 4",
Lymans Data used a 4" barrel.
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It chrono'd out of my G19 at around 1130
I'll PM you in a bit for that code, I really appreciate the offer. I got the data for PP from my Speer manual. It lists 124gr TMJ data, so figured I'd start a bit lower and work up since I'm not 100% sure if TMJ/FMJ can use same info.
LiveLife
Member
For decades, I have used WSF to produce duplicate factory JHP using same bulk projectiles like Speer Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber for practice but recently have gotten very good velocities and accuracy from BE-86.
Jacketed bullets have .015"-.030" thickness gilding metal jacket. Speer Gold Dot and TMJ are thick plated bullets with around .015"-.018" copper plating - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195
Speer 115/124 gr "plated" TMJ showing copper base
I have interchanged TMJ and FMJ load data using the same OAL/bullet seating depth with good results.
Even with 1200-1250 fps rating, regular plated bullets with around .004" thickness copper plating tend to lose accuracy above mid-range jacketed load data. Thicker plated bullets with .008"-.014" copper plating and 1300-1500 fps rating are better at maintaining accuracy at higher velocities.
Jacketed bullets tend to be more accurate than plated bullets, even thicker plated bullets.
Here are 25 yard 10 shot groups with RMR 115 gr FMJ and 115 gr Hardcore Match RN bullets (.012"-.014" thickness copper plating) loaded to 1.130" OAL with 4.2-4.3 gr of IMR Target (17" Just Right carbine) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-vectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/#post-10508215
RMR 115 gr FMJ ----- RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match RN
Among thick plated bullets, RMR Hardcore (11-12 BHN) Match bullets are pretty good at higher velocities. These are 50 yard 10 shot groups with RMR 100 gr Hardcore Match RN bullets pushed to almost 1500 fps (1478-1475-1480-1471-1467 fps) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-3#post-10245856
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Hondo 60
Member
CHARGE! Never exceed listed charges!
Excellent info, thank you for that. So, pretty much as always, start low and work up.For decades, I have used WSF to produce duplicate factory JHP using same bulk projectiles like Speer Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber for practice but recently have gotten very good velocities and accuracy from BE-86.
Jacketed bullets have .015"-.030" thickness gilding metal jacket. Speer Gold Dot and TMJ are thick plated bullets with around .015"-.018" copper plating - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195
Speer 115/124 gr "plated" TMJ showing copper base
I have interchanged TMJ and FMJ load data using the same OAL/bullet seating depth with good results.
Even with 1200-1250 fps rating, regular plated bullets with around .004" thickness copper plating tend to lose accuracy above mid-range jacketed load data. Thicker plated bullets with .008"-.014" copper plating and 1300-1500 fps rating are better at maintaining accuracy at higher velocities.
Jacketed bullets tend to be more accurate than plated bullets, even thicker plated bullets.
Here are 25 yard 10 shot groups with RMR 115 gr FMJ and 115 gr Hardcore Match RN bullets (.012"-.014" thickness copper plating) loaded to 1.130" OAL with 4.2-4.3 gr of IMR Target (17" Just Right carbine) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-vectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/#post-10508215
RMR 115 gr FMJ ----- RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match RN
Among thick plated bullets, RMR Hardcore (11-12 BHN) Match bullets are pretty good at higher velocities. These are 50 yard 10 shot groups with RMR 100 gr Hardcore Match RN bullets pushed to almost 1500 fps - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-3#post-10245856
TheDomFather
Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
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I struggle with the same as I have berrys for .380 and Ranier plated bullets for 9mm and .45 ACP however, Someone have me a link to Rocky Mountain Reloading who actually sells FMJ bullets for less than the price of plated bullets at least for 9mm, just got 2000 of them in the mail yesterday for $148.20 delivered with a code that gives us 5% off from the high road. thats 7.4 cents per projectile which is pretty much the cheapest I have found delivered to my house for a 9mm 115gr FMJ.
Ranier plated 115gr HP are 42.99 for 500 rounds from Midway getting you to 8.6 cents per projectile. I plan on putting up a cost of reloading video later today if I can get the time.
Dom
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