Why do so many people get worked up about proprietary magazines?

Jason_W said:

Sometimes, I think the average gun consumer just expects too much.

Gun consumer: Wow, this rifle is great. MOA accuracy, reliability, great customer support from the manufacturer . . . Say, does it take AR mags?

Gun manufacturer: I'm afraid not.

Gun consumer: DIE IN A FIRE, SCUM!!

Yes, there's some hyperbole there, but hyperbole to underscore a point.

Click to expand...

More than some. Outside of black rifles, I can't say I've ever really heard people gripe about proprietary magazines. And where current production EBRs are concerned, it's pretty reasonable these days to expect 5.56mm autoloaders to accept AR pattern mags, because just about every manufacturer has done this. In point of fact, it would be rather foolish to not get on that bandwagon. Why Ruger hasn't adapted the mini-14 is beyond me.

There are a few others that are a good idea to pattern on as well, such as using FAL, G3/CETME or DPMS pattern .308 mags, and a 7.62x39mm should probably take AK mags. If you're gonna design a 9mm pistol caliber carbine, it'd be wise to make it accept plentiful and cheap Glock 17, CZ-75 or Beretta 92 pattern magazines, for which high capacity versions are also readily available.

For hunting rifles or weapons not chamber in 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51 or 9x19mm, I don't think many people care, as long as the proprietary mags aren't stupid expensive.

Speedo66 said:

I have a Kel-Tec Sub2000 that takes a magazine that fits both the carbine and my Glock pistol. Thus, the magazine is well made, reliable, and relatively inexpensive, with choices from 10 rounds to 33 rounds.

Click to expand...

Quite right. Also, feeds full-auto and activates bolt stop. But ironically, when St.George's minions went to develop SUB-2000 from SUB-9, they didn't realize that Glock won. So, the ugliest Kel-Tec can be had in versions taking Glock, Beretta, and... S&W magazines (not M&P IIRC). I'm sure they would not do that now.

Speedo66 said:

On the other hand, I have an early Browning BLR in .308 that nobody makes a magazine for anymore, neither the factory nor the aftermarket, good luck trying to replace that one at any cost.

Click to expand...

It may be possible to adapt the magazine of Henry Long Ranger for BLR, with some judicious application of a metal file, hand drill, and a portable MIG welder. I thought about doing just that, although in 5.56.

cdb1 said:

Magazines have a much higher profit margin than firearms. As a consumer I wouldn't like it. If I were a manufacturer it would be leaving too much money on the table to not sell proprietary magazines.

Click to expand...

Hopefully manufacturers realize that they leave even more money on the table when potential customers recommend that they shove their rifles with proprietary magazines up their butt holes.

I am involved in a couple different hobbies where this type of issue raises it's ugly head frequently. The total lack of compatibility. In some cases I firmly believe that the manufacturer goes out of their way to create a one of a kind thing, obviously so they are the only ones selling it.


I own a lot of guns. And most of them take different magazines. Like several people mentioned: I have been through the situation where buying new magazines or buying normal capacity magazines becomes difficult or cost prohibitive. So, I stock up on magazines for every gun I own. This gets really expensive.

I realize this is wishful thinking, but it would be really nice if there were some "standard" magazines.

Two real world examples. I have a Remington 788 rifle in .223 Remington. The magazine is bad on it. I have been totally unable to buy a new magazine for it. You can find 788 magazines all day long in all kinds of calibers including .44 Mag (!!!) but not .223.
So, I shoot the rifle by single loading it. It's not the end of the world, but it sucks none the less.

I have always been a big fan of the Ruger .22 autoloader pistols. The Mk. 1, the Mk. 2.................... I have owned one since I was 9 years old. I have owned probably a dozen of them and currently probably own 5-6 of them with different barrels, different sights............ Then Ruger came out with the Mk. III and the Mk. IV. And there were all kinds of really cool configurations . I wanted the super lightweight one that was threaded and was lusting after a couple other ones: BUT, their magazine is not compatible with the MK.II magazines, of which I probably have 20. So, I refuse to buy the newer models. I am not going to start over buying magazines and further complicate my logistics of buying, storing, and keep seperate yet another new/different magazine.

So, what magazine a gun takes enters into my decision whether I am going to buy it or not. If it takes a one of a kind, available from only one source magazine, that is a big black mark against it for me and will make me think twice before I buy it.

The AR15 is a good example of the opposite. I can buy all kinds of different magazines from all kinds of different manufacturers, made from different materials (plastic, aluminum, steel). And I can use them in all kinds of different guns even guns in different calibers (223, .300 BO...............). I can go to the range with my friends and we can use each others' magazines..................... And this is a very nice, good thing. I have a bunch of AR15s, and the receivers are made from all kinds of different companies including ones I machined out of 80% receivers................and the same mag works in all of them as well as every other AR 15 out there.

Jason_W said:

Gun consumer: DIE IN A FIRE, SCUM!!

Click to expand...

LOL. I guess I've never witnessed or experience the attitude. Believe I have 2-3 with proprietary magazines. Knew that prior to purchase. Oh well. Haters gonna hate.

zaitcev said:

Quite right. Also, feeds full-auto and activates bolt stop. But ironically, when St.George's minions went to develop SUB-2000 from SUB-9, they didn't realize that Glock won. So, the ugliest Kel-Tec can be had in versions taking Glock, Beretta, and... S&W magazines (not M&P IIRC). I'm sure they would not do that now.

Click to expand...

So it's dumb in your opinion to make the rifle in configurations that are compatible with Glock and other popular magazines? Must be a Glock fanboy. Perhaps you can set that aside for a moment and realize that there are tens of thousands of Beretta 92 and S&W 59 pattern mags out there, and that a person who owns a Beretta 92FS or S&W 5906 but no G17 may, in fact, want a compatible carbine.

When I built my custom 9mm pack rifle, I patterned in on Beretta 92 mags. Because I own a 92 and many magazines for it from 15 to 32 round capacity. I don't own a G17, so why in the world would I want a gun that takes those mags when I can choose?

Proprietary magazines tend to cost more and not be as readily available.
"...the basic "scout" concept..." Was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas.
"...mags for the Mini are made of hardened steel..." Nope. Stamped sheet steel just like every other box mag since time began. Mags do not need to be hardened.

"...mags for the Mini are made of hardened steel..." Nope. Stamped sheet steel just like every other box mag since time began. Mags do not need to be hardened.

Click to expand...

Oh yes they are. The Pro-mag magazines I bought were just a little tight when they snapped in place. I could not remove a little metal from the tab with a file. I had to use a dremel grinder wheel. So unless you have actually tried to file on one you don't know what you are talking about.

Here ya go. I looked up the information for you.

https://promagindustries.com/ruger/80-mini-14-223cal-20rd-blue-steel-magazine.html

From the description.

RUG-A1 A 20-rd Magazine for Ruger Mini-14® rifles chambered in .223cal/5.56x45mm. Magazine body constructed of heat treated steel with a black oxide finish for durability and harsh use in the field. A Chrome-silicon wire spring and precision molded polymer follower ensure reliable feeding and function.

zaitcev said:

Hopefully manufacturers realize that they leave even more money on the table when potential customers recommend that they shove their rifles with proprietary magazines up their butt holes.

Click to expand...

The market is self-adjusting. If a firearm doesn't have enough appeal then your quoted scenario happens. If a firearm does have enough appeal then it doesn't happen.

What I think it boils down to is profit margin. New firearms even though they are big ticket item don't have anywhere near the profit margin as ammunition, magazines and optics.

I've always been baffled over peoples need for high quantities of magazine.

I guess bing proprietary or not is import if you need 20 to go with each of your rifles.

2 each is good enough for me and in some cases 1 is just fine. I don't plan on fighting off hordes of barbarians or zombies anytime soon.

Nature Boy said:

I don't plan on fighting off hordes of barbarians or zombies anytime soon.

Click to expand...

While that may be true, there are many a cause that brings once fine magazines to ruin... and it's a damned shame to have to stop shooting ones favorite rifle because magazines haven't been available for it since George Bush was President... and I don't mean the son.

I've always been baffled over peoples need for high quantities of magazine.

Click to expand...

When you are talking about guns like the AR or any other gun that may be banned or have the magazine capacity restricted owning several mags makes sense. Plus if you have an excess they can be sold for a profit to those who didn't plan well.

Ok. I get it, and I'm not making a value judgement on what folks spend their money on. I just have a different frame of reference. 2ea 30 round AR mags and 2ea M1A mags constitute my personal load out requirements.

The number of magazines also matters if you do training or competition. In a lot of classes or in competition, you need to focus on the tasks at hand and not on reloading magazines. Plus, real training or competition is often tough on magazines. Magazines are expendable and do not have an indefinite life if used. Internal mags, not so much.

The availability of magazines, ammunition, and other spare parts affects the value of the used firearm in the future. Glock so far has been smart to keep compatibility between their different Gens and magazines. Others that have changed mag designs often have hurt their future sales--e.g. during the same time that Glock kept one basic magazine design, Ruger has went through the P generation, the SR generation, and now the American generation of autopistols with different magazines used for each. Maybe Ruger figures on losing money on the handgun but making it up on magazine sales.

When mags are multi compatible with other things, then its a plus..in my book anyways. Its a reason i like my rifles set up for aics styled mags. however, aics setup doesn't mean i can stick .300 win mag rounds in a .308 mag, The sizes still need to be appropriate, however it makes my mag purchasing more available.... or more options essentially. As more companies have different magazine options for aics type mags. This being opposed to x companies proprietary mag being limited to whatever the/that manufacture puts out. If the company only puts out a five round mag and i want 10 round mags, well i want 10 round mags...regardless of legitimate reasons.If i want a better follower, or a mag that doesnt have a body that maybe hangs up on the bolt or a polymer magazine with a bullet count window, well ill go get what i want. I like the option personally, so what im saying is, if i can reconfigure said weapon to take a more "common" style mag than proprietary, ill go that route.
Say with a handgun, take the 1911 for example...there are plenty of after market mags available...and some are better than others. Hell, magpul is starting to make glock mags now, so just shows the industry and market for it, although i've never had a personal issue with the OEM mags.

Regarding magazines, I recommend anyone trading off or selling certain common mag fed guns (handguns & rifles) keep their excess mags, ammo, and accessories. Sell / trade the gun with the 1 or 2 magazines it came with. Keep any excess. You never know when you will come across a great deal on that common firearm again.

I learned that with Glock mags as a younger shooter. Had a Glock 17 didn't shoot it all that well and traded it and all the magazines for something else.
3 years later I had a Glock 19 & a Glock 26 that I shoot well. Wished I'd kept all those excess Glock 17 mags.

I frequently read of shooters that want to standardize their rifles. They have a couple AK's & AR's and either want to go all AR or all AK.
Protip - keep your excess mags, ammo, and accessories. Put them in a box in a closet somewhere and forget about them.

Easily procured mags are a luxury that many people like. before the Knight's pattern AR10 mags became commonplace, Rock River designed an AR10 that used FAL mags, cause there were/are zillions available.Olympic made a 9mm AR that took STEN mags, and there are carbines that take Glock mags. I love my Ruger American- but I didn't love the price of the extra (cheap looking) mag. My MVP functions quite well with pmags- the metal one that came with it is trash. I think I threw it away.

Things like this are good reasons why...

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/category/parts-and-accessories/magazines/fnh-usa/fnar.do

FNH USA FNAR Magazines
Sort By

Grid View List View

• 
  FN FNAR Magazine .308 Winchester 10 Rounds Steel Black Finish 3108929200
  $75.81
  Ships for Free
• 
  FN FNAR Magazine .308 Win 5 Rounds Steel Blued Finish 3108929300
  $75.81
  
  (3)
  
  Ships for Free

Nature Boy said:

I've always been baffled over peoples need for high quantities of magazine.

2 each is good enough for me and in some cases 1 is just fine.

Click to expand...

Because without a good magazine semi-auto is just a single shot firearm.

Because magazines are designed to be a disposable item.

Because magazines can be easily damaged. Body dented, feed lips bent.

Because magazines are easily lost, especially small calibers one.

Because most LGS only stock some of the most popular firearm magazines. Everything else has to be ordered over the Internet. Which means your hunting trip is now a nature viewing trip.

Because there is no certainly that replacement magazine will be available when the one you have goes bad.

Because I rather spend my time on the range shooting, not refilling my magazine after every few shoots.

Proprietary magazines are generally very expensive, hard to find, and hard to keep up with.

1stmarine said:

FNH USA FNAR Magazines

Click to expand...

Man that was so true, it hurt. That said, I decided against buying one because I had trouble with BAR II a while ago, and FNAR is basically a BAR with pistol grip and yet another incompatible magazine (they could at least use BAR II magazines, or the same latch...). I could swallow FNAR's magazines if the rifle itself was outstanding.

zaitcev said:

Man that was so true, it hurt. That said, I decided against buying one because I had trouble with BAR II a while ago, and FNAR is basically a BAR with pistol grip and yet another incompatible magazine (they could at least use BAR II magazines, or the same latch...). I could swallow FNAR's magazines if the rifle itself was outstanding.

Click to expand...

The problem with FN is the proprietary everything stuff. Also if you have a problem and you are military or LE then jump hoops for you but if you are a civilian customer embrace
yourself for the long wait and trouble. I have been there. I think the rifle is great but it could be better. The transfer bars is like the shotguns and not really that strong so no for
any rigorous duty and I know it i snot intended for that. Overall not a bad but the lack of aftermarket, no parts for diy fixes or enhancements plus the outrageously priced magazines
do not make the package that attractive. Did you realize that other than military based rifles the 308 offering is not that great for auto-loaders?
I put the all terrain saigas and vepr in that military category because they are crude but still a nice alternative.
If they made SR25/dpms mags and LRBO that would be the nice. I mean something people can work with and become pretty popular ranch/beater carbines.
the magazines only help with that versatility curve.

Well, it makes as much sense hoping to get ones' hands on somebody else's .223 ammo as it does believing that one can also have access to their rifle's magazine.

You can imagine the taboo subject (scenario) which this could apply to, as it is often discussed on other websites.
On my 100% all-original .223 Saiga, extra mags are stored with the rifle. They are at least as reliable as the factory Izhmash magazines. And each mag has a larger capacity. ("He's not saying that...!).