Battle of The Carbines : M-1 or High-Point ?

Gun Master has still not said why we're being asked to make this choice.

But, I can answer with respect to my particular situation and needs. I will shortly retire to a 118 acre derelict catfish farm that I plan to restart. The areas not under water are heavily wooded. There is no open area longer than 225 yards and most open areas are less than 50 yards. The need is for personal protection against wild dogs, the removal of nuisance animals (beaver and muskrat) and defense against trespassers. At the time I first experienced the place, I had a choice between a Universal M1 Carbine and a Universal 9mm Carbine. In the end, I chose neither.

I chose an Iver-Johnson carbine in 5.7mm Johnson.

But if the choice was limited to 30 Carbine or 9mm High Point and it was to be a working gun - and not a collector's item - I would choose the High Point 9mm carbine over the M1. This is primarily because its almost a sin to take a 70 year old collector's item out into those woods where it will get wet, dinged up, and may end up at the bottom of the lake. A new High Point that I could replace if it got lost or damaged is much easier to justify and to actually use in an difficult environment.

hdwhit said:

. I will shortly retire to a 118 acre derelict catfish farm that I plan to restart. The areas not under water are heavily wooded. There is no open area longer than 225 yards and most open areas are less than 50 yards.

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Back in the days of the $150-200 Carbines, that would have been the clear answer--light, well balanced, able to take hard knocks.

Now, the modern, knee-jerk answer is "git an AR!" (Heaven help us if Gaston ever cobbles up a carbine )

After much headscratching, I really find I have little to offer. Other than that a Mini-30 or maybe the new 7.62x39 Ruger American. Or a lever in .30-30 or something similar. And a red dot ot RMR for aiming.

Which, given my experiences around aquaculture, won't help you a lick in dealing with snakes. And Cottonmouth are likely to be pretty frequent. Dumb part is that, typically, you generally just need a stick with a metal crook at one end, so you can just herd them off back to water or agin a tree as you go by. But that crooked stick is a pain to tote while toting naything else.

I am a huge M1 carbine fan. I was seven years old the first time I handled an M1A1.That was in 1950. My dad, a warrant officer in the 2nd Infantry Division, was shipping out to Korea to fight the commies. He brought all his gear, including his carbine, home the night before he left. I gave that carbine a through going over. I have owned many carbines in my time, and they all have shot better than me. When the wife and I go camping out in the bunnies, I almost always bring my carbine. Sometimes I bring my Garand, instead.

I have both and have shot both extensively, as I handload for them.
I'm assuming that this is in reference to a defense gun, since they're at opposite ends of the spectrum.
My HP is a 45, but aside from caliber and ammo capacity functions the same as a 9mm High Point.

At 30 yards from a bench rest, both shoot the middle out of the X ring, so accuracy is there for both.
M1 holds 30 rounds, HP in 9mm 25 rounds, so both have high capacity mags.

Both rounds are easy to handload, but you do need to mic the case length of the M1.
No big deal...I find it relaxing.

In order to add optics to the M1, you do need to invest well over $100.00 so as to add a fiberglass stock and upper hand guard with rail. (I had looked into this at one time.)

I have shot both in 3 Gun, albeit .45 instead of 9mm.
Red dot on HP picks up steel and center of mass way faster than M1.

Both guns feed flawlessly for me.

At defense ranges, the M1 will have ample penetrating power and unlike the military, there are now soft point rounds available.

For home defense, Hight Point, for collecting and having a piece of heritage, the M1.

By the way, my M1 is a General Motors Inland Division with an Underwood Typewriter barrel.

By the way to the second power, my preferred carbine is a recently released Freedom Ordnance FX-9 chambered in 9mm, Glock mag compatible, AR platform, with Leupold DeltaPoint Pro optics.

WessonOil said:

By the way to the second power, my preferred carbine is a recently released Freedom Ordnance FX-9 chambered in 9mm, Glock mag compatible, AR platform, with Leupold DeltaPoint Pro optics.

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Thats pretty neat. I must say thats the only 9mm AR looking gun with a price that looked in any way appealing to me.

Between the two I would take the M1 carbine.

This stands guard over a doorway with Winchester JHP ammo in the magazine...no bayonet.



This one is currently on duty in the basement. Since this photo I've removed the front and rear sights and the rail under the barrel. A not-so-expensive Red Dot replaced the sights. At first I had the Red Dot co-witnessed with the irons but it seemed like too much stuff.

The M1 Carbine, in most respects, is a better gun than the Hi Point. So what? They aren't terribly comparable. Comparing the Hi Point to Chiappa's 9mm M1 Carbine would be more reasonable.

Obviously I'd rather have the better gun, but not if I had to pay for it.

The Hi Point is around $250, although it's not unknown to find used ones at $150. A used generic non-GI M1 Carbine can't be had for less than $600. I don't care what they cost 30 years ago. An AO/Kahr is $700. An Inland is $1000. A GI gun might be somewhere around a grand plus or minus a couple hundred bucks depending on condition and rarity. A collectible might exceed a couple grand.

For my purposes, the Hi Point is the better choice (for me). I have more use for a cheap plinker that shoots cheap ammo and can be fired at any indoor range. It's basically a rimfire alternative. I can also buy one at any time without checking my finances or feeling guilty about it.

I have no particular use for an M1 Carbine. It's not a round well suited for hunting and it costs more than 5.56 or 7.62x39. How well do they run on Tula? $600-1000 is also real gun money. For that much, I'd rather get something else. I think the most compelling things about the M1 Carbine are the history and light weight, except it's not enough to overcome the caliber or price (for my purposes).

Aside from cost, there is basically no reason to choose the HP over...anything, let alone the M1.

M1 can be classic, or modernized with plastic and an optic if so desired.

With Hi Point coming out with a 10mm carbine, it might be something to consider as the 10mm Auto from a carbine could definitely give the .30 Carbine round a run for it's money. However, the Hi Point is limited to 10 rounds. If they offered it with Glock mags then I might consider it. But until then, I'll take the M1.

Limited to 10 rounds or less I would rather have a lever action in either .357 of .44 Magnum than any Hi Point.

Magazine capacity isn't an issue for me since neither the M1 Carbine or the High Point would be anywhere near the top of the list of long arms that I'd choose to bet my life on in a serious fight with man or beast.

I love the carbine for its light weight and excellent handling. It's a great gun to take along for a walk in the woods, sort of like a (slightly) more modern Winchester '92 in 32-20 or 25-20. It just feels "right", even though I wouldn't carry it for serious hunting purposes.

I don't have a lot of experience with High Point carbines but my impression from handling and shooting a couple is that they feel about as natural as a spiral cut plastic two by four. The overall look and feel screams "CHEAP", but they're reasonably accurate and I've never had one jam on me.

Sunray said:

Factory 110 grain .30 Carbine has more velocity and energy at 300 yards than a 9mm has at 100. And that's assuming the High Point can hit anything at 100.
"...half an hour with a dermal..." With a what? Dremel? Rotary tools are not required to keep any firearm working. A regular bath is though. 30 round Carbine mags might require opening the lips a tick with needled nosed pliers, but no rotary tools.

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In my experience the .30 carbine isn't exactly great at 300 yard shooting, it's going to require a lot more windage and elevation doping than a 9 mm carbine will at 100 yards.

"...with needled nosed pliers..." With what? Needle nosed pliars?
If you have to start bending on a new mags lips with pliars to make 'em work properly, you need to find a better source of magazines. Most of mine are USGI but I've got a few Korean made mags that seem to work just as reliably.

phil dirt said:

My dad, a warrant officer in the 2nd Infantry Division, was shipping out to Korea to fight the commies.

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My dad was an Indian Head too, mortars and Artillery Observer.

For home defense or teaching a new shooter, I'd go Hi Point. It can be a cheap throw-away in the event of a defensive shooting and the low noise of a pistol caliber in a 16" barrel is good for my hearing if shooting inside a house as well as being easier for new shooters.

Outside of the home, M1 all the way.

Here's a picture of how the Hi Point in post #57 actually looks. I removed the front and rear sights plus the rail that was under the front barrel. Added a not so expensive TruGlo Red Dot. The aftermarket Red Ball 20 round magazines work great. Hi Point and Red Ball guarantee them to work and sells them on their web sites....also available from other sources. I bought my two from Natchez.