8 Shots: Enough?

Eight is enough. No, not the television show, I'm answering your question. And wondering how many people under forty have no idea what we're all going on about...

Anyway, my own HD shotgun holds five. There's another box of 00 buck handy that I'll drop into my pajama pocket if need arises. Which I hope never does. Because if it's not over before I've expended five rounds, we're in deep doo-doo.

Only reason I can think of for it not being enough is if you get a little trigger happy. Keep a handgun around too if you are concerned...the fastest reload is a second gun.

You can get the Sidewinder Venom 11 shot kit. It converts the 500 to box/drum magazine, now 11 shots should do you very well.

I think we need to consider these facts when considering the ‘low capacity’ of the shotgun.

1. Your shotgun probably feels more natural to ‘point shoot’ than your rifle in low light short range conditions.

2. Each trigger pull has an increased hit probability even if the pattern is only 4-6in big.

3. The buckshot pellets in even a 3in pattern greatly increase the chances of a CNS hit on the first shot. The combined shock will be massive even if not.

4. If you are familiar with your gun, feeding the tube is going to be natural assuming the attacker does not flee (extremely unlikely but may as well not make assumptions I suppose) and assuming you need more than 3 shots (extremely unlikely even with multiple home invaders).

5. In most cases, watching the first perp get a 3-4in hole blown in them, of their entire head getting blown off is going to be extremely discouraging.

6. If you have unusual concerns with organized crime but shoot your shotgun best you can have some ‘ready to go’ rifle rated body armor and ballistic helmet with a bandolier or shell cards added to it. With organized crime they are more likely to have body armor too and a shotgun within in-home distances can shoot through the gaps in the armor, or the neck/face more easily.



Here’s a post by an experienced cop who has only ever needed 4 shots. He can’t find any examples of low shotgun capacity causing an issue even after asking on his 50,000 member mailing list. This is about shotguns I’m aware of people on the street needing more extra mags.



I like a side saddle because it doesn’t get in my way but it’s not the most important thing. I usually use it for hardened barrier slugs so I have that option. Usually I use Brennekke 1 3/8oz Magnum Barrier Penetrators.



The Federal Flight Control #1 buck is a popular (and valid) choice but I prefer a wider pattern so I can have a 4-8in pattern indoors for the reasons I specified above.



Also I would buy some tactical earmuffs and keep them near your shotgun. If you have 1 second to put them on, it’ll be an advantage because it increases your hearing and doesn’t blow your eardrums out.



Finally, if you are comfortable with your shotgun (which you are gathering form your post) if some thug wants to bet on you missing from 5-15 yards he's most likely to be scraped off the walls.

I believe eight is more than enough. I have an 870 that is 18 inches with an extended magazine. Side saddles and speed feeds add too much weight and reduce the ability to use the gun as it should be used in my humble opinion. As stated earlier you probably need close air support if you need more than eight.

I actually think 8 is to many, it makes the gun too muzzle heavy, I'm ok with 4 or 5 in the mag and I don't like side saddles prefer a butt cuff and I have a bandoleer that holds 20 IIRC and is real easy to throw over a shoulder.

I had an two shot extension on my 870 original, but I preferred the handling of the standard tube over it. I do have a Velcro card side saddle mounted with 4 additional shells. 4 in the magazine tube with 4 more on the side.
With my Maverick it has the standard 5 shot tube and a Velcro card with 5 on the side of the receiver, that one is fitted with a Butler Creek side folder.

mavracer said:

I actually think 8 is to many, it makes the gun too muzzle heavy, I'm ok with 4 or 5 in the mag and I don't like side saddles prefer a butt cuff and I have a bandoleer that holds 20 IIRC and is real easy to throw over a shoulder.

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Yeah I like knowing I have 9 capacity in my 20" and it IS fairly short for a rifle ... but if I could do it again I would consider getting an 18in for just a little more maneuverability.

jeepnik said:

8 is Enough. If you can't solve it with 8 shot shells, you need either air or artillery support.

I wonder if any of the kids will get the pun?

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The kids are too busy with their IPhone and texting while crossing a street to "get" it.

IMO, I owned an 1100 12 gauge once back in my teens, and after shooting it and an 870 12 gauge when I worked at a trap/skeet operation (Roberts Shooting Park, Elkhorn NE, 1969-1970, now the site of a community college) I traded it for an 870. I just like the safety variables with the 870: one can leave the fired shell in the receiver or can eject it and have live round waiting in the shell lifter. One has not that option with the 1100. And, if one gets very proficient with the 870, reload capability is as good or better than the 1100.

I found a spare 28" VR barrel later on and cut it down to 18.5" (I like to be as legal as can be), added a Choate 2-round extended mag and a 6-round Sidesaddle (back in the day when it was elastic shell loops) to the receiver for HD for a total of 13 rounds on the gun. I was very surprised how heavy the gun was (not thinking of that ahead of my fantasies). It was not nearly as maneuverable with all that weight, even in a CQ HD situation.

I have gotten a "bit" older (65) and cannot foresee an HD situation where I would need that amount of ammunition unless we were in a civil war situation. Most home invasions are just opportunities for people looking for easy targets.

Protect your home, observe what is happening around you, and don't become an easy target! I no longer have that shotgun, and rely upon a 1911 .45 with 2 extra loaded 7-round mags, which in itself is probably "overkill".

We are in the boontoolies and see very little excitement here, but some day, maybe...

To the OP: good luck with your shotgun and situation. Those Remingtons are very good guns.

Good day!

Jim

Eight is enough, unless you can have more. I like having extra ammo on board my "retired" police trade-in 870. The magazine will hold six rounds. The gun was equipped with a Mesa Tactical sidesaddle, but I don't care for it. There's a butt cuff laying around here somewhere, mostly unused because talk about wrecking the handling characteristics... But I never want to be caught short if things get "social" in the middle of the night.

I just acquired two six-round Esstac shotgun cards for my 870. They're basically a sidesaddle made from nylon webbing, but with very strong elastic loops instead of hard plastic or aluminum loops. There's "hook" velcro on the back. You apply "loop" velcro to the receiver of the gun and just slap the card onto your HD gun. Two cards will fit easily into an AR15 mag pouch, or will stick to any handy loop velcro. Should an HD event go into extra innings, I'll have 12 rounds available. If the sidesaddle runs dry, I can rip the empty card off the gun and replace it with another full 6-rounder. It also gives me the option of loading two cards with different rounds for different applications.

If you choose this option, first be at peace with sticking a 2" wide strip of velcro to your gun's finish. Since mine is a parkerized working gun with plenty of cruiser wear, it didn't bother me one little bit. When I pull the card off and take this gun hunting, the velcro won't snag on my clothes of hang up on brush like the Mesa sidesaddle might.

I AM NOT A SHILL OR SPOKESMAN FOR ESSTAC, I JUST LIKE THE PRODUCT.

Cooldill said:

Thoughts? Is a side saddle a necessity for a home defense/tactical shotgun?

Thanks!

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I live in an area were response times are measured in hours instead of minutes. Our subdivision has average lot size of just over 3 acres. My shotgun has a side saddle. There are three slugs three bird shot in it. Bird shot is for certain non-human threats, slugs for when buckshot won't get the job done.

Cooldill said:

Hey gang!

I have a Remington 1100 Tactical 12 gauge shotgun and have plans to set it up for home defense. It has proven to be extremely reliable over several hundred rounds, including a lot of buckshot.

I have the 22" barrel 9-shot model (8+1 capacity). I want to add a Mesa Tactical Urbino stock to the gun and also an Elzetta shotgun light system.

My question is: do you think 8 shots of semi-automatic 12 gauge #1 buckshot is enough for home defense without using a side saddle to carry extra rounds?

I had a Mesa Tactical side saddle on it but it made the gun a bit too heavy and awkward. Should I add a sidesaddle anyway for extra firepower? Or do you think 8 rounds loaded in the magazine tube is enough?

This will be my "barricade" gun. I'll grab it if time and the situation permits, but will have my Beretta 92A1 at the ready if not or when the shotgun runs dry.

Thoughts? Is a side saddle a necessity for a home defense/tactical shotgun?

Thanks!

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There is a very good chance if you need more than eight in a normal home defense situation it won't matter much to you anyway. BTW: You did not ask, but in a home defense situation, I would strongly suggest #4 rather than #1 buckshot.

jdh said:

I live in an area were response times are measured in hours instead of minutes. Our subdivision has average lot size of just over 3 acres. My shotgun has a side saddle. There are three slugs three bird shot in it. Bird shot is for certain non-human threats, slugs for when buckshot won't get the job done.

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I think you ought to consider a rifle as primary outside the home and save the shotgun for inside the home or really near the buildings. Just my opinion.

Cooldill wrote:
This will be my "barricade" gun.
...
Is a side saddle a necessity for a home defense/tactical shotgun?

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The title of the late 1970's/early 1980's television show not withstanding, Eight is never Enough. You might be facing more than eight intruders. Or you might miss a few. Or they might be wearing body armor. You not only need a side saddle, but you need to line the walls of your barricade position with boxes of buckshot and slug shells so that you can keep up sustained fire. In fact, you might even think about building the walls of your barricade out of cases of shotshells to be sure you'll have "enough" to do deal with whatever nightmare scenario awaits you.

Seriously, unless you're in the drug trade or some other form of organized crime, the likelihood that you will ever face a home invasion is remote. The odds that it will involve multiple attackers is even less likely and the odds that they will have come equipped for - and supplied for - a prolonged firefight extends to the astronomical. Eight shells should be more than sufficient; particularly as you have indicated you will have a pistol with you as well.

Crawdad1 wrote:
Watch at 3:17 where the slug penetrates the wall and goes through 34 inches of gel.

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The OP said he was going to use buckshot, not slugs. And he may be in the position I will be in when I retire, with just my wife and myself living in the house. So if I know where she is when I start shooting, the fact the projectile may penetrate a wall and still be capable of wounding on the other side is just an added benefit because it will mean I got two intruders with one shot.

ChanceMcCall said:

I think you ought to consider a rifle as primary outside the home and save the shotgun for inside the home or really near the buildings. Just my opinion.

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ARs in 9mm and 6.8 are readily available should the treat warrant. And were in not for the snakes (copperheads, Coral, Water Moccs, and big rattlers [neighbor killed a 12 footer last summer] and several varieties of non-venomous which we leave alone ) they would be the primary.

I agree, but I posted that video to show how devastating a shotgun is, that's all.

I'm not a big fan of side saddle carriers...but do like the bandoleer/sling. Pick up the shotgun and the 15-25 or so rounds come with you. Of course they weigh a ton...no way around that with a shotgun.

No one can truly predict how many rounds you may need but personally I'd be pretty confident with 8. My HD shottie only holds 5 and while I do have a shell holder on the buttstock odds are good that if I ever need it I'll have to finish the fight with what's in the gun. I recently moved and in the new house I'll probably go back to the AR for HD. But not due to a lack of confidence in the 12 ga.

Light and handy - 5 and a butt stroke.

GR

YES. what REALISTIC scenario do you see where you will be faced with more than 3, 4 maybe 5 invaders in your home? i dont like side saddles or anything else hanging off my long gun. having said that ya can never have enough ammo.

8 is enough for me. I don’t plan on earning shots or missing. Either way I have stashes of a few items to back me. A 1971 charter arms. Beretta 92s. Louisville slugger. Bayonet off a Mauser. Besides that I live in a place with a 1.5 minute police response time. I’m good.

Rockrivr1 said:

In most cases the distinct sound of loading a pump action shotgun is enough to make a perp run.

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You're basing this claim on what evidence? If you're loading your shotgun where the bad guy can hear you you've already screwed up badly in some way or are terribly unlucky.

Bypassing the cliches of not having to aim, the joys of racking and the big ol' pattern - I suggest an empirical test.

Take a long arm class with your shotgun (shoot buckshot and slugs) and a competing long arm such as an AR. Shoot both in competition with movement and multiple targets. See how you do and what fits you better.

I've done this and conclude my long arm to pick up is the AR. Yes, I have a shotgun ready for whatever, but it's not first choice. In reality, my first choice for HD if it's not a barricade for zombie mobs is a higher capacity handgun. I suggest shooting those in the same manner has above.

You might then take your three guns and maneuver around the house with dummy rounds or lasers. See how you do on corners, lights, phone usage, doors, etc.

Most people just talk 'stopping power' and ignore usage. It's like the Japanese superbattleships - Yamato and Mushashi - great stopping power for a set piece battle that never occurred.