Deadly force against a dog to protect one's own dog?

4v50 Gary said:

Happened in Colorado. 70 year old lady was walking her football size dog when it was grabbed by the neck by a pitbull. She grabbed the pitbull's collar and twisted, choking the pitbull and causing it release her dog. Talk about cajones. Pitbull's owner had a retractable leash and was in a wheelchair.

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It has been a while since I last examined this issue legally, but here in Colorado I recall wildlife rules say:

1) you can't shoot wildlife to protect your dog.
2) you can shoot wildlife to protect yourself.
3) you can shoot wildlife to protect your livestock.

I'm not entirely sure how this changes when the offending animal is another dog, but I can tell you I'd protect my dog. In a decade and a half of law enforcement experience out here, I've never once encountered this type of defensive shooting, so please excuse me for being a bit rusty on this segment of law.

The pit bull owner didn't control his property. I figure she had a right to protect hers. She didn't use deadly force. She used just the right amount to make the threat go away....I salute her.

A lot of this has to do with what state you live in.

My neighbors dog is what I believe is called a teacup chihuahua . Anyway it is a mean little bastard and badass. I know for a fact that it killed a pitbull...the pitbull choked on it.

I thought you were going to say someone shot a dog. I've often wondered about that myself. My father told me he almost had to shoot some dogs while out on a walk the other day. It was a pit bull running with a rottweiler, and they were trying to get behind him. People don't realize how incredibly dangerous that is when you've got two big dogs tag teaming you. People die every year from dog attacks. A woman around here was just killed by two pit bulls while she was out for a stroll. I always pack heat whenever I go for a walk, and it's entirely because of dogs. I carry pepper spray, too, but if it's two pit bulls I'm not playing around.

I had a big Pit run up on me while out with my Lab Pup, about 4 years ago. I heard him coming, scooped up my dog and spun around with my gun in hand, I yelled Stop, No, he did, about 10 feet from me, maybe 12. I was totally prepared to kill the dog, if he crossed that line I had made in my head, "he was already too close". The dog left, I called Animal Control, they got the dog, he was hunting, and had escaped before from a woman's yard. I was glad I didn't have to kill him, but the cop said he would have shot the dog, before allowing him that close showing teeth. I took a chance, and was sure I could have hit him dead on, but would never kill someone's dog unless I had to.

Where I live I was talking to a local Deputy Sheriff and told him I was worried about being attacked by a dog when I go on my morning bike ride. He said " shoot it , we'll stand behind you". That's all well and good but I wonder what kind of legal trouble the owner of that dog could cause me?

george burns said:

but would never kill someone's dog unless I had to.

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Letting a dog like that run loose is so much worse than leaving a loaded gun down with kids in the house. At least the gun doesn't have a mind of its own. I have no sympathy for owners of vicious dogs who don't take them seriously.

Here in Tennessee you can not protect property with deadly force. A dog is considered property. If the other dog attacks you also, the situation changes.

If you get attacked while trying to protect your dog, you may be in a better position to defend your actions if you use deadly force.

I have filed several complaints about the amount of roaming dogs in my area to local and county police. Unfortunately there is only 1 animal control employee for the entire county. I was told by my local law enforcement that if I encountered a wild or aggressive dog that didn't back down, I could shoot it. Just call them afterwards to file a firearm use report. So far, I have only had to use a BB gun to give them the hint to stay off my property so far.

Well if they consider a dog property, then an attacking dog should be no cause for alarm if it had to be lost or damaged during an attack. I was at a party many years ago when a guy stood up to introduce himself. He said you lived near me in Queens,NY, I said ok, he then went on to tell me the story, remember when those 2 Italian Mastiffs, killed the 21 dogs, in the dog Park off "Union Tpke","if I remember correctly, His dogs had made the TV news and papers. I couldn't believe that he wanted everyone to know what they had done. They went through that dog park like a saw.
I knew right there that there was something very wrong with him. I excused myself and left. He was proud of what they did in some screwed up way, All I could do was pull him on the side, and tell him what an ass he was, and That I would have killed both dogs right there on the spot, "which Police who responded did. There were some LEO's there at the time as was th guy whose house it was,who I later asked how could you be friends with this idiot. He had no answer, never went back.

george burns said:

Well if they consider a dog property, then an attacking dog should be no cause for alarm if it had to be lost or damaged during an attack. I was at a party many years ago when a guy stood up to introduce himself. He said you lived near me in Queens,NY, I said ok, he then went on to tell me the story, remember when those 2 Italian Mastiffs, killed the 21 dogs, in the dog Park off "Union Tpke","if I remember correctly, His dogs had made the TV news and papers. I couldn't believe that he wanted everyone to know what they had done. They went through that dog park like a saw.
I knew right there that there was something very wrong with him. I excused myself and left. He was proud of what they did in some screwed up way, All I could do was pull him on the side, and tell him what an ass he was, and That I would have killed both dogs right there on the spot, "which Police who responded did. There were some LEO's there at the time as was th guy whose house it was,who I later asked how could you be friends with this idiot. He had no answer, never went back.

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It's like they say, there are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners. I had this roommate in college that got a pit bull puppy, and he stated he was going to "teach it to protect him." He was totally in love with the idea of having a dangerous dog, and he wouldn't be reasoned with. If only there were some practical way to ban idiots from having dogs like that.

I used to see idiot dog owners in the Bronx who would put a long chain, the thickness of which you could tie up an ocean liner, around their dog's neck for them to drag to "toughen him up". Unfortunately, there was a lot of pit bull fighting and cock fighting there. Lots of restraint required.

grampajack said:

It's like they say, there are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners. I had this roommate in college that got a pit bull puppy, and he stated he was going to "teach it to protect him." He was totally in love with the idea of having a dangerous dog, and he wouldn't be reasoned with. If only there were some practical way to ban idiots from having dogs like that.

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About a zillion years ago when I was an accountant, one of my clients was a machine shop. The wife lived on the premises with her 5 dogs, which I would always pet etc when I came there. I didn't (and I guess still don't) know many breeds. The one dog there that I totally loved was so sweet... I asked her what breed he was, she said pit bull. So I guess maybe while they have the innate ability to be very aggressive, each one's individual upbringing makes a lot of difference.

Comanche county, OK does not have a dog warden. Our sheriff is very clear on dogs. If the dog threatens livestock, pets or humans kill the dog.

old lady new shooter said:

The one dog there that I totally loved was so sweet... I asked her what breed he was, she said pit bull. So I guess maybe while they have the innate ability to be very aggressive, each one's individual upbringing makes a lot of difference.

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One of the sweetest dogs I ever owned was a Pit bull/Rottweiler mix. According the the "aggressive breed" folks, she was a cocktail of hostility that should have destroyed every person in the house. Only time she ever lost her temper was when defending herself or my son.

old lady new shooter said:

About a zillion years ago when I was an accountant, one of my clients was a machine shop. The wife lived on the premises with her 5 dogs, which I would always pet etc when I came there. I didn't (and I guess still don't) know many breeds. The one dog there that I totally loved was so sweet... I asked her what breed he was, she said pit bull. So I guess maybe while they have the innate ability to be very aggressive, each one's individual upbringing makes a lot of difference.

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I absolutely adore pit bulls. All of our dogs have been rescues and foundlings, and we now go out of our way to rescue pits and pit mixes, partly because there are so few people willing to take them in. Our current pit came to us through a family who didn't want to keep him because their son's friends' parents wouldn't let their kids play at the house because of the dog. It started with a pit/lab mix who was just the sweetest, most patient dog anyone could ever hope for. At that time, I had a few friends get pit bulls and it was obvious that they naturally had a very sweet disposition as a breed. One of my friend's fathers was dealing with a very serious degenerative disease, and they got the pit to be a companion for him.

It's a two edged sword, though, because when they go bad they have truly terrifying power and speed. Anyone who's ever play wrestled with one can attest to the fact that they're physically different from other dogs. During patience testing, they're one of the least likely dogs to bite, but when they do it's pretty much always serious. They account for the majority of dog attack fatalities, but they account for only a very small number of dog bites relatively speaking. Believe it or not, labs, golden retrievers, and dalmatians are statistically the most likely to bite. It's just relatively rare to see one of those breeds be able to kill a human, and when they do it's usually a small child.

It's very sad though, as the pit used to be the most popular family dog in America, and before that it was the most popular family dog in England, as well. They were known for being very patient with children especially. It was very hard on our Thor to lose his little boy. When we got him, he spent the first three days in my lap and you could tell he was in mourning. Moral of the story, rescue a pit if you're in a position to, because there aren't very many decent people who are willing to take them.

This topic has been brought up before. Laws tend to vary but in general unloading at a dog isn't the best idea. I say that with primarily the backstop in mind, but state/local laws are indeed different from one place to another.

As a pit owner and dog lover in general, I will say that anyone that has a dog with strong bite strength (there are more than a few) and wants to take them out in public, a break bar is a necessity. Regardless of the breed you just never know. And they do work.

All that being said if I felt in fear for my life or someone elses I would put it down in one fashion or another depending on the circumstances, although I hope like heck I never have to.

2 years ago my daughter was walking our pointer. The pit bull from down the street got through the owner's open door, crossed the street and attacked my dog, grabbing him by the back of the neck. My dog was pinned with my daughter caught between them. A neighbor next to the pit bull's home saw what was going on and feared my daughter was in danger, ran into his house and grabbed his pistol and came to the rescue. It was just at that moment that the PB's owner got to the scene and eventually pulled it off my dog by twisting his collar in the same manner as the 70 year old woman in the OP. It's a good thing, too. The pistol neighbor was ready to shoot the pit.

Police were called and the PB's owner tried to file a complaint against the neighbor for brandishing his gun. Te officer scolded the PB owner and told him he was lucky his dog wasn't dead, that she would have shot it, and then called animal control to come get the dog for a mandatory 72 hour observation. The PB owner was ticketed for failing to keep his dog under control.

When my daughter told me what happened, I bought my neighbor with the pistol a case of his favorite beer in appreciation for his action to protect my daughter.

4v50 Gary said:

I'll talk to a local cop and see what (s)he says. BTW, my cousin had a pitbull that was a very gentle animal. Never showed any aggression towards any other critter. By the same token, I met some mean poodles, cocker spaniels and other little football sized dogs.

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I think there's a link between overbreading and aggression. If you look at the list of biting breeds, they tend to be some of the most overbread, and in addition to being short tempered they have health problems, with dalmations being an obvious poster child. My cousin's family has always gotten labs as long as I can remember because they all hunt, but it's just been one disaster after another. The dogs weren't mean that I know of, but they weren't especially friendly either, and they've had bad health problems. I don't think they've gotten more than eight years out of one so far.

Deleted by alsaqr: Double post.

"It's very sad though, as the pit used to be the most popular family dog in America, and before that it was the most popular family dog in England, as well."

That was before dog fighters and dopers starting selectively breeding pit bulls for aggressiveness. Dog fights remain popular in parts of the US. i know guys who owned and fought pit bulls. Many folks have no idea where their pit bull pup came from. A pup from an aggressive fighting line will be an aggressive dog.

Russian scientists studied aggressiveness in artic foxes for decades.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...tten-russian-experiment-in-fox-domestication/