Pistol Caliber Carbine Builds - Parts sales and What parts did you use and why?

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Here are some spring weight measurements from David Tubbs... just food for thought.

A2 (old) - 7.6lb closed, 14.5lb open
A2 (new) - 9.1lb closed, 16.7lb open
Tubb Flatwire - 10.5lb closed, 16.3lb open
Tubb .308 Flatwire - 13lb closed, 16.7lb open
SpringCo White ? (standard) - 8.3lb closed, 16.3lb open
SpringCo Red (extra) - 10.5lb closed, 18.4lb open
SpringCo Orange (increased) - 13.9lb closed, 24.8lb open


IMHO, an extra power spring isn't needed , nor wanted.

I tried both the "Red" and "Orange" ... both caused needless muzzle dip, and were slamming the BCG really hard into the breach face

Try a Tubbs flatwire.... and you might need a spacer.
 
bfoosh006 said:
PSA Hybrid BCG, Colt pattern 16" upper ...http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ailed-upper-with-hybrid-bcg-ch-516446602.html in a PSA AR15 lower.... polished the feed ramps and "edge" of the chambers breach. PSA mag block ( w/ BHO )... can't find a link Tubbs .308 Flatwire spring...http://www.davidtubb.com/tubb-springs/bufferspring-sr-ar10, and a KAK configurable 9MM buffer ..https://www.kakindustry.com/ar15-config-9mm-buffer-system( the "longer" buffer eliminates the need for a spacer in a carbine tube when using a standard carbine buffer .) The heavier spring rate and heavier buffer weight helps tame the "bark and blast" of a blowback carbine. The OEM carbine spring and buffer were WAY to light... the cyclic action was like Linda Blair in the Exorcist in its factory configuration. It is very important not to have a lot of bolt "over travel" in a PCC... to much will break the BHO latch. PSA branded Metalform 32rds mags... bought 'em while they were $13 each.
Click to expand...
 
Green Swamp tactical has AR45 lowers that accept Glock 21 mags.

I have one. Build quality looks pretty good. All the parts fit in nicely. Pretty great product, IMO.
Only problem I have with Green Swamp is I can't get the Green Swamp guys to call me back.

I will probably use a Macon Armory upper to finish it. I talked to the Owner of Macon and he is a pretty fun guy. We talked about everything from mil surps and military machine guns to my build inside and out.
 
heres my macon upper. the kit is super easy to install and fit great too. but I haven't had time to break it in yet.

20170915_230058.jpg 20170915_230229.jpg 20170915_230330.jpg
 
I have a PSA Glock mag lower that started life with a pistol tube, matched to one of their 16" barreled uppers. My experience is that the buffer it shipped with is way too light and the spring is too weak. I was getting swelled brass with normal power hand loads.

IMG_0596.jpg

I ended up putting a rifle stock on it and pouring a rifle buffer full of lead to tame it a bit...which sort of defeats the purpose. If you're going to carry around an 8lb gun it might as well be chambered for a rifle caliber.

My Camp Carbine is still my favorite PCC.
 
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Back when ARs were $1000 I could see the benefit in having one lower and swapping uppers to make a PCC. But in today's market, I don't really get the appeal of an AR based PCC- unless you love the ergos, which is fine. :)
IMO, one is better served by going with a dedicated platform, such as the Beretta CX, Kel Tec Sub2000, or one of the lever guns. Even the High point carbine seems to be developing a decent reputation.
'Course I'm weird, so I went with a Taurus CT9 (great gun if you can find one cheap- be prepared to fab. your own mags), and a Norinco 320 (Uzi clone.)
Would love to find a Ruger PC too....but they have vanished like a toot in the wind....
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
I don't really get the appeal of an AR based PCC- unless you love the ergos, which is fine. :)
IMO, one is better served by going with a dedicated platform, such as the Beretta CX, Kel Tec Sub2000, or one of the lever guns. Even the High point carbine.
Click to expand...
Please honor my OP thread title of a "build" thread.
bds said:
Since interest in Pistol Caliber Carbines (PCC) seems to be increasing, starting a new support thread to help members/guests with their builds and component selection.
Click to expand...
If you want to discuss virtues of dedicated platforms, please start a new thread.

I do agree on the use of dedicated PCC lower than using magwell block with AR lower. I have essentially replaced all of my magwell block PCCs with dedicated PCC lowers that use Glock magazines and very happy with the reliability of feeding from the magazine.
 
Delta Team Tactical has 5 oz carbine buffers for $20. I got two of them on sale for $16 each last week.
With the AR9, you need to find the right buffer and spring combo. Right now my AR9 has a Rock River 9mm buffer in it with a standard carbine spring. The recoil is smooth.
IMG_0813.JPG
IMG_0814.JPG
 
GunnyUSMC said:
Delta Team Tactical has 5 oz carbine buffers for $20. I got two of them on sale for $16 each last week ... With the AR9, you need to find the right buffer and spring combo.
Click to expand...
Very good point and good price.

With carbine recoil spring, I found 19-22 oz combined weight of buffer and bolt produces more comfortable felt recoil. 16-18 oz combined weight produces harsher felt recoil - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...es-and-what-parts-did-you-use-and-why.825314/

PSA bolt 14.7 oz + PSA buffer 5.3 oz = 20 oz combined weight and produces comfortable felt recoil with various 9mm loads. For longest "in battery" time for more consistent chamber pressures (and not get funny looking brass like Elkins45), use heaviest buffer that will reliably cycle the bolt. With 20 oz combined weight, my PCCs will cycle even lighter target loads (115 gr RMR FMJ with 4.6 gr W231/HP-38 or 4.1-4.2 gr Red Dot/Promo) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-what-am-i-in-for.824002/page-3#post-10606695

For reference:

- H1 buffer weighs 3.8 oz
- H2 buffer weighs 4.6 oz
- H3 buffer weighs 5.4 oz
 
I'm stuck on the theory (my own) that a LRBHO is the way to go, mainly because I am use to the 223 platform. Does it really matter or not wether it's a LRBHO?? Or once again is it just a personal preference?
 
I fired Spikes Recluse integrally suppressed, 9mm AR. It had the LRBHO, that seemed flimsy. I put a BAD lever on mine. To lock the bolt to the rear, I just put my finger under the lever, lift and pull the bolt to the rear.
 
Ok, so took the plunge and just ordered a Spartan lower from JoeBob's. But the question that just ran thru my mind was...what are you guys using for a vise block to build it with? I have the magpul BEV, which won't work for this. Thanks
 
GunnyUSMC said:
Delta Team Tactical has 5 oz carbine buffers for $20. I got two of them on sale for $16 each last week.
With the AR9, you need to find the right buffer and spring combo. Right now my AR9 has a Rock River 9mm buffer in it with a standard carbine spring. The recoil is smooth.
Click to expand...

So Gunny, good to go using an AR stock with spring as long as the buffer is for the pistol cartridge, correct?
 
bbqreloader said:
So Gunny, good to go using an AR stock with spring as long as the buffer is for the pistol cartridge, correct?
Click to expand...
Pistol caliber ARs use the blowback system and need heavier buffers. If you use to light of a buffer the gun will beat itself up. Depending on the buffer spring, 5 to 9oz buffers get the job done. There are buffers like the one I have in my carbine that are made for pistol calibers.
Frontier Armory sales a spacer that goes on the buffer tube. It moves the spring about an inch forward and allows you to use 4 or 5 oz buffers .
Sometimes a little tuning is required, as in finding the right spring and buffer comb to match the barrel you use.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
Pistol caliber ARs use the blowback system and need heavier buffers. If you use to light of a buffer the gun will beat itself up. Depending on the buffer spring, 5 to 9oz buffers get the job done. There are buffers like the one I have in my carbine that are made for pistol calibers.
Frontier Armory sales a spacer that goes on the buffer tube. It moves the spring about an inch forward and allows you to use 4 or 5 oz buffers .
Sometimes a little tuning is required, as in finding the right spring and buffer comb to match the barrel you use.
Click to expand...
GunnyUSMC said:
Pistol caliber ARs use the blowback system and need heavier buffers. If you use to light of a buffer the gun will beat itself up. Depending on the buffer spring, 5 to 9oz buffers get the job done. There are buffers like the one I have in my carbine that are made for pistol calibers.
Frontier Armory sales a spacer that goes on the buffer tube. It moves the spring about an inch forward and allows you to use 4 or 5 oz buffers .
Sometimes a little tuning is required, as in finding the right spring and buffer comb to match the barrel you use.
Click to expand...
Thats what I was wondering. Looked like you were using a rifle stock vs shorter ones I have seen. Knew about using a heavier buffer because of the blow back, was just wondering if I had to add spacers or buy a separate spring that matched the buffer or if I could use the stock spring. Thanks
 
Hey where'd the guy who started this thread, disappeared faster than the Enterprise in warp :)
So curiosity, all weapons not being created equal, anyone have an opinion on what weight 9mm bullet has shown to work better than others? Have 115 FMJ and some 124 FP but was wondering if I should order a small pack of 147's to load also. Still working on getting parts together. Thanks.
 
I know Quarter Circle 10 makes, or at least used to, a "large frame" Glock mag stripped lower that could be built for 10mm or .45ACP.

Any lower priced variants?
 
bbqreloader said:
Hey where'd the guy who started this thread, disappeared faster than the Enterprise in warp :)
So curiosity, all weapons not being created equal, anyone have an opinion on what weight 9mm bullet has shown to work better than others? Have 115 FMJ and some 124 FP but was wondering if I should order a small pack of 147's to load also. Still working on getting parts together. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I built mine as SBR and pretty much only shoot it suppressed so 147gr is all I load for it. The Wolf/Tula 115gr works fine too, but is significantly louder supressed.
 
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