french mas

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It's everywhere. Google "French 7.5 ammo" and you will see. You will have to buy online, of course. PPU makes it and it runs around $15 for a box of twenty, or $350 for a tin of 500 rounds. Good, reloadable brass, too.
 
sky country

I think I have seen maybe a half dozen MAS-36 rifles (actually one was a MAS-39, the folding aluminum stock paratroop version), in all the years I made the gun show circuit. Can't say I ever saw much in the way of surplus 7.5 French ammo either. As tark suggested, you can find quite a bit of ammo online at a decent price.
 
I had a few of them when they came in as surplus. Ammo was available then
Lee has dies for it and bullets are .308 diameter

PPU loaded ammo is available. I would shoot it and reload the cases
 
That Syrian surplus ammo is junk, click,click,click, and no bang, I ended up pulling all the bullet for future reload projects. Also noticed three different powder types used in the cases. I would recommend to get a basic reloading press/kit and roll your own.
 
When these rifles came into the US, ammunition, Syrian or otherwise, was not available. Initally I shot 6.5 Swedish ammunition, I think it was Norma. That was god awful expensive, but it blew the cases out. I found a cheaper brand of 6.5 Swede and also shot those which fire formed the cases. I do not believe this was dangerous as the case never pinched the bullet. If I recall correctly, the case neck was long enough that the mouth was in the throat. There was absolutely no accuracy with loaded 6.5 Swede ammunition, I saw the bullet hit a berm 25 yards away, sometimes in the middle, sometimes at the bottom, sometimes at the top.

If you try this, coat the 6.5 cases with case lube or a grease. This is a practice Bench rest National Champions do when fireforming, it produces a perfect, stress free case. After fire forming you will have to trim the case neck, but all will be well.

You cannot load the 7.5 French to 308 Win velocities though you can use 308 diameter bullets. The action is a rear locker and is not as rigid as front locking 308 Win rifles. I have data with pulled gunpowder, a 165 gr Corelokt going 2500 fps did not cause sticky bolt lift. However a 165 Corelokt going 2700 fps (with AA2520) gave very difficult extraction.

While the data below is for reference only, and I will provide a caution. The older ammunition gets the higher pressure it becomes. I would keep all 140 grain loads in this rifle around 2600 fps or less.


MAS36-51

140 gr FMJ Syrian Ball ammo
17-Apr-92 T ≈ 80 °F

Ave Vel = 2724
Std Dev = 11
ES = 28
Low = 2708
High = 2736
N = 8


This might be of interest:


http://web.archive.org/web/20060506045913/http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/75french/sainfo.html


Disclaimer: This article contains information that may not be appropriate for your particular firearm. Consult your gunsmith in regards to the safety of firing your particular firearm. Consult your reloading manuals for all safety procedures when reloading ammunition. We are not responsible for typographic errors. Your mileage may vary.

What follows is a reproduction of an article from Handloading Magazine on the 7.5x54 MAS, prefaced with comments by myself, updating the magazine article with considerations for the MAS semi-auto rifles.

Update: Reloading the 7.5x54 MAS.
By Paul Pelfrey

While the reprinted article that follows is essentially accurate, the author did not take into consideration the availability of the various semi-auto French rifles that would later be on the market at an affordable price. This article should be applicable to the MAS-44, MAS-49 and the recently imported MAS-49/56 rifles. With the data in table II of the article below, I didn’t need to reinvent the wheel to start my experimentation. My load was the 150 grain Sierra FMJ spitzer, loaded on Norma brass, with Winchester WLR primers, packed with 44 grains of AA-2520 powder. I had had a good experience with this load through my MAS-36 bolt action rifle and decided to give it a go in the MAS-49/56. The MAS-49/56 I had acquired came from SOG and was still in the arsenal wrapping when I received it. After a thorough cleaning I took it and 50 rounds of my handloads. I first test fired the rifle with some surplus Syrian ammo I had. I was disappointed. The Syrian ammo was rife with hangfires and dead primers, and those rounds that did fire would not actuate the bolt properly. Most of the rounds stovepiped none ejected fully. I then took my handloads, loading a single round in the magazine at a time and easing the bolt forward. To my delight, the rounds were rather accurate, keeping inside 1.5 inches at 50 yards, and the brass ejected cleanly. After 10 shots loaded one at a time I loaded two rounds. This time, I let the bolt fly forward on it's own to chamber the first round. The round immediately slamfired as the bolt closed, and the second round chambered. My finger had been outside the trigger guard. I unloaded the gun, then reloaded two rounds. This time, the round did not fire when chambered. However, when I pulled the trigger, the rifle fired both rounds in rapid succession. My first thought was that this was a repeat of a phenomenon that I had experienced with an SKS carbine. In that case, the modern lube I had used on the SKS was too slippery and allowed the firing pin to travel forward with the bolt actuation with sufficient inertia to impact and detonate the primer. In that case, removal of the lubrication solved the problem. I disassembled the MAS rifle and dried the components completely and reassembled it. The slamfire problem persisted. My attention turned to the handloads. Checking the primer seating depth and dimensions of the case turned up nothing out of spec (except the smaller rim diameter, per the Handloader article). I then chambered a Syrian round and then removed it. Examining the Syrian round showed a slight indentation on the primer. I then left the range to ponder my next move.

Next weekend I returned with more handloads, this time using CCI regular and match primers, and Remington primers. During this session my handloads still suffered from slamfires while the military French and Syrian ammo did not. Conclusion: Commercial primers are too thin to operate safely in the French MAS semi-auto rifles.

Solution: CCI, under the name of their parent company, Blount, manufactures a military spec primer. I found a brick at a gunshow in a plain white box. The label read "1000 M-34 Primer for 7.62mm Cartridge". Loading 50 more rounds with these primers solved the problem. Not a single slamfire. Most distributors do not carry this primer, and will only order and sell it in a case lot (5000 primers). The good news is that these primers sell for only about $6-$9 more than the same quantity of regular primers. I would recommend their use in any round that might be loaded in a semi-auto rifle, just for an added margin of safety.

Reloading this round has become much cheaper since the publication of the Handloader article. Lee now makes the dies for this round, and I have seen a retail store price on them for $29.99 (half of RCBS). After talking to the techs at Lee, they are willing to make a tapered expander for necking up the Swedish brass for $15, and if you send them a formed cased with a bullet (no primer, no powder) they will make one of their Factory Crimp Dies for it for $25. I recommend this, inasmuch as a few of my handloads had a problem with the bullets being pushed back into the case upon chambering. This can lead to overpressure and possible injury. Brass is more plentiful now as well. I find Remington 6.5 Swedish at shows for $27/100 and Kengs in Georgia also stocks Lapua 6.5 Swedish for a similar price.
 
Closest cousin in brass to the 7.5 French is 6.5 Swede as Slamfire says. Grafs and Sons and AIM surplus are the easiest to find 7.5 French Ammo. Grafs and Sons carries the brass off and on and Sportsmans Guide has it at times as well. Thanks Slamfire for giving chrony readings of the Syrian surplus--I'll stash it somewhere when I get the time to develop loads for my Mas 36 as redline type data.

I
 
Prvi 139 grain FMJ runs $18.99 per 20 at Midway. $16.59 per 20 at Grafs. Who also list PCI 150 grain SP's at $27.99 per 20.
7.5 x 55 case is 50 thou longer than the 7.5 MAS. And it's rim diameter is 12 thou bigger.
 
7.5x55 Swiss and 7.5x54 French MAS can fool the naked eye. Both Case types are rimless, bottleneck
Code:
               7.5x55mm Swiss  7.5x54mm French 
Bullet diameter:  0.306 in        0.309 in     
Case:                                          
Neck diameter     0.335 in        0.341 in     
Shoulder diameter 0.457 in        0.445 in     
Base diameter     0.496 in        0.482 in     
Rim diameter      0.498 in        0.486 in     
Rim thickness     0.065 in        0.055 in     
Case length       2.189 in        2.126 in     
Cartridge:                                     
Overall length    3.059 in        2.992 in
If one owns both rifles, do keep the ammos separate. Wikipedia carries the warning: "The 7.5 French cartridge is somewhat similar in appearance to the slightly longer and thicker 7.5x55mm Swiss GP11 round but users should never try to interchange the two rounds."
I am tempted to say if one's 7.5 French rifle will chamber 7.5 Swiss ammo, the chamber is out of spec.

I still remember the adventure of fireforming a 5.56x45mm cartridge in a 6.8 SPC AR . . . .
 
I liked the MAS well before I got one. I think that it is an excellent design and which the AR-15 has a similar direct-gas impingement system that blew the gasses out of the action instead of into it like the AR.

Yes, I know that the MAS design requires head spacing because of this and the AR does not, but really, is this such a big deal? I'd rather have to headspace once (or none if it is done at the factory) then have a dirty jam-prone fouled up action.
 
Flechette is describing the MAS-49 semi-auto which uses the same 7.5x54mm French rounds as the MAS-36 and MAS-39 bolt actions.

Sky country never said which model he had.

Unfortunately the only MAS-49 I have seen was one of those converted to .308 Win by the importer. Now that good 7.5 French ammo is available, that makes me sad.
 
I found the Syrian ammo available 20 years ago to be accurate....... and have a few hangfires. Some of the French Gi stuff I had had Failures to fire even after multiple strikes.

I liked the MAS 36 rifles. I liked it better than the Russian, Italian, Japanese, Dutch, Austro Hungarian and what have you. Honestly as much as I like the K98, if I was arming a 1939 army with bolt actions I think the MAS 36 would be my choice. Of course to suggest I might like it better than the 03 or 03A3 would be sacrelidge and heresy and fortunately those beat out the MAS 36 in the bayonet department so I won't.

Avant-Avant, a le bayonet! That would be my best Francais Militar, sorry for murdering the language.

As for the '49, a buddy has one of the '44s, sort of a prototype '49 and really liked it. I shot the 49/56 in Europe a couple of times. I liked that it had a "real" bayonet and liked the grenade launcher (though I never launched a grenade). Most had a scope rail on the receiver much like an AK 74 and later AKMs and could be pressed into service as a designated marksman rifle (they had a much modified 36 bolt action for a true sniper rifle, even had a safety of sorts and bipod and muzzle break/stabilizer)

Sadly I left the Infantry before the Claron Bullpup came out and the one time I had a chance to shoot one as an Artillery Officer had other duties that day. Some French Commandos I spoke with in 1975 were appalled at the move from 7.5x54 to 5.56NATO......"how will we shoot down planes and Helos?"

Some French Special Forces types and Legion same-same used the HK 51/91 in semi auto only in 7.62NATO during the 1970's. BTW their collapsing stock was much nastier than HKs A3s but work pretty much the same way. Had a hairy but fun day on the range when a French NCO that had a Commando posting before going back to the line Infantry refused to listen to instructions during a Partnership shoot as he had shot this rifle and set his German G3 on full auto. Pucker factor of 9.6 at the time but funny to look back on and he flailed about full auto as I stood over him. He jumped up with the now empty rifle, broke the 180 rule, hurled the rifle down and pronounced it broken German first stage of fertillizer and stormed off the line without permission. But it was OK, he was, after all, French.......

-kBob
 
I have had a Mas 49/56 for 25 years... and never shot it until about 3 months ago. I finally ordered some ammo (I don't remember where) and took it out. WHAT A NICE SHOOTER! I was so impressed with its handeling and accuracy. I have been seriously considering ordering some brass and a set of dies.
 
AIM Surplususually has PPU. I have a MAS-36 that I bought from a member on here. Great, soft-shooting rifle!
 
I have had a Mas 49/56 for 25 years... and never shot it until about 3 months ago. I finally ordered some ammo (I don't remember where) and took it out. WHAT A NICE SHOOTER! I was so impressed with its handeling and accuracy. I have been seriously considering ordering some brass and a set of dies.

They are nice. I picked one up about 20 years ago for a whopping $150 new. Ironically, Century Arms started selling cases of 7.5 Fr before the rifle. When I saw the cheap cases I bought a bunch because I knew the rifles would be next!

If you look around you can find side mount quick disconnect scope mounts. They really work! You can go from iron to glass in about a minute.
 
I have been keeping an eye out for one of the nicer lever locking side mount scope bases. I missed the nicer ones when they were being produced. I would rather hold out for one of the level lock reproductions that one of the screw in knob versions.

I didn't pick up the 7.5 fr ammo before the rifles came along. I was buying other surplus arms that were on the market at the time. I always justified my purchases with "Some day this will be worth a lot of money" and tried to convince myself of this. Now I just wish ignored my family that thought I was crazy and had bought more surplus arms at that time. There were just so many different weapons available that the supply felt limitlress. Of course I don't think of my surplus arms as really worth anything... because I would have such a hard time parting with any of them. I am much better at buying than I am at selling.
 
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