How NOT to respond to road rage

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Jeff White

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The backstory that's been released is that this woman threw something from her car that the guy in the pickup says hit his truck. The report on the radio says that when the pickup driver started following her that she called her husband who told her to pull over in a well lighted area. The video shows what happened next:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tent=7879ACA3FCF356F41DEA6B5339292ED9726C1F14

Failure 1: Called her husband instead of the police.

Failure 2: Pulled into a well lighted business parking lot instead of the police station.

Failure 3. Pulled into a parking spot that allowed the driver of the pickup to block her in.

Failure 4. After the verbal confrontation and the pickup driver kicking her car, she gets out of the car to openly film him on her cell phone.

What the heck was her husband thinking when he told her to find a well lighted area and pull over for the guy?

What was she thinking when she pulled in to that parking slot where she could be blocked in?

And after the guy kicked her car, did she think he was just going to stand there and let her film him?

I don't want to blame the victim, but she certainly would have had to try hard to make poorer decisions.
 
The way he was going back to his truck four or five times I would say he said what he wanted to say and was Leaving, but she didn't have the ability to shut her mouth and let him go.
He was in the wrong, but she has a bad case of too many rights and eat smooth up.
 
Doesn't matter what was said. He stood away from her car to talk to her. All she had to do was keep her mouth shut and not look at him and the idiot would have been gone in 10 seconds. But no, she had to have the last word
 
Ya... Probably a whole lot of stupid on both sides; criminal on one side. I always tell my kids, if they end up in a road rage situation, to dial 911 and just drive to the nearest police station.
 
The way he was going back to his truck four or five times I would say he said what he wanted to say and was Leaving, but she didn't have the ability to shut her mouth and let him go.
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Impossible to know for sure if that's what happened, but your comment reminds me of a quote by Ron White. He mentions that at one point in his life he was arrested for public drunkenness and although he had the RIGHT to remain silent, he didn't have the ABILITY.
 
According to the local TV news (St. Louis), the man in question is in his early 50's and has several "incidents" on his record. They are saying he is considered "armed & dangerous" and do not approach.
Last I heard (Tuesday), he was still not in custody.
 
Obviously the guy was wrong in this situation, and obviously this isn't the first time. Nevertheless, there are lessons for all of us.

Never assume that in a confrontation, you're the crazy one and the other person will be better behaved than you are, or will do what's legal, or even that they won't do anything you wouldn't.

Before you decide what's important, think about what that decision will cost you. The guy was clearly ready to go off on someone, but that doesn't mean she had to be the target of his rage. I'm not saying she shares the blame. I'm saying that it's possible to simplify your life by making wise decisions about how important it is to get in front of someone, or throw something out of your vehicle, or gesture at someone, or tailgate/brake check someone, etc. You may see it as petty and harmless, but you aren't the person who will ultimately make that decision. It will be the other guy--and it's in your best interest NOT to assume that the other guy is a model citizen.
 
ponchh said:
The way he was going back to his truck four or five times I would say he said what he wanted to say and was Leaving, but she didn't have the ability to shut her mouth and let him go.
He was in the wrong, but she has a bad case of too many rights and eat smooth up.
Click to expand...

I have seen bullies/attackers go back to a unconscious victim multiple times to inflict additional harm. The unconscious victim isn't fighting back or provoking the aggressor in any way. She very well may have kept her mouth shut. It could simply be that he started to walk away and raged anew, not feeling like he got the satisfaction he wanted.
 
JTHunter said:
According to the local TV news (St. Louis), the man in question is in his early 50's and has several "incidents" on his record. They are saying he is considered "armed & dangerous" and do not approach.
Last I heard (Tuesday), he was still not in custody.
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St Louis Post Dispatch is reporting he turned himself in this morning.

Double Naught Spy said:
I have seen bullies/attackers go back to a unconscious victim multiple times to inflict additional harm. The unconscious victim isn't fighting back or provoking the aggressor in any way. She very well may have kept her mouth shut. It could simply be that he started to walk away and raged anew, not feeling like he got the satisfaction he wanted.
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Which is why we can't make any judgements about what was said between them. We don't have that information.

We can say it would have been smarter to call the police and to drive to the police station.
 
The older that I get, the more I find the good book has a lot of wisdom--namely "a soft answer turneth away wrath."

Giving an apology (even if unwarranted on your part) is better than risking a potential violent encounter, even turning it over to insurance to haggle if the other person demands payment for damage. The other lack of situational awareness is pulling over and not calling the police as Jeff W. says above.

I get as mad as anyone when people drive crazy and nearly cause accidents and living in a congested area, see a lot of it.

I sure as heck won't follow them and generally report them for things like driving 20-30 miles over the speed limit, swerving repeatedly, heading off the road, via cell phone to the police. Nearly got sideswiped on the interstate this Thanksgiving and simply backed off and reported the driver to the State Police with license tags and description of vehicle. The guy kept swerving into the right lane from the left and was either falling asleep, had serious problems with his steering, or was in an altered state.
 
There those who have the world's deadliest disease and I have them in my family,the condition's technical name big mouth and not knowing when to shut it. Have at least 2 friends of family members that are dead because of running their mouths
 
Mr tough guy apparently has a problem dealing with society, or maybe just with people he knows he can pick on.

I agree with all of Jeff's assessments. Particularly about calling the cops and not blocking herself in.
 
Apparently the truck driver is a slow learner as well jailed multiple times for assault perhaps a longer stay at the gray bar hotel will smarten him up but at this point It's doubtful he'll get the point.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
I have seen bullies/attackers go back to a unconscious victim multiple times to inflict additional harm. The unconscious victim isn't fighting back or provoking the aggressor in any way. She very well may have kept her mouth shut. It could simply be that he started to walk away and raged anew, not feeling like he got the satisfaction he wanted.
Click to expand...

Or it could be that being a mouthy fem has consequences.

ironworkerwill said:
Mr tough guy apparently has a problem dealing with society, or maybe just with people he knows he can pick on.
Click to expand...

What most fail to grasp is that there are simply some people you don't mess with. They will hurt you at the drop of a hat if you fail to observe the golden rule. The real problem seems to be those who have an overinflated sense of self worth and actually believe the rest of the world has to tolerate them.

1. Don't be a twit.
2. Don't start altercations.
3. Apologize when you do something to tick someone off.
4. Understand that you mean nothing to the other guy.
5. If you ignore 1-3, take your beating and strive to do better in the future.


​
 
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If1HitU said:
Just asking,if she had a gun,how much trouble would she be in if she shot him?
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IMO: Little or none. Most prosecutors don't prosecute females who are violently attacked by scumbags twice convicted of domestic assault.

From the link:

Heatherly was sentenced in Jefferson County Circuit Court in 2007 to two years in prison after he pleaded guilty to domestic assault, assault and endangering the welfare of a child.

In 2009, he was sentenced to three years in prison after a jury convicted him of second-degree domestic assault and violating an order of protection.
 
If1HitU said:
Just asking,if she had a gun,how much trouble would she be in if she shot him?
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When? When he approached her car, or after he body-slammed her? I'm guessing after the body-slam, it would have been fairly justified; prior to that, probably not; words are hard to kill over justifiably.

Larry
 
I'm guessing after the body-slam, it would have been fairly justified; prior to that, probably not; words are hard to kill over justifiably.
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After the body slam, it would have been murder--straight up. There are no laws that I am aware of that allow a person to retaliate with deadly force AFTER an attack is over. If the evidence showed that the attack was still in progress at the time deadly force was used and also that the attack was likely to cause serious injury or death, and also that there was no reasonable alternative but to use deadly force, then deadly force would have been justified to prevent serious death/injury.

Immediately before the attack, if she reasonably feared that she was about to be seriously injured or killed, then the use of deadly force to prevent the imminent attack might be justified, depending on the evidence.

Remember, legal deadly force is about the PREVENTION of serious injury or death. It is never legal to used deadly force to retaliate after an attack or to punish someone for an attack that is over.
 
JohnKSa said:
After the body slam, it would have been murder--straight up. There are no laws that I am aware of that allow a person to retaliate with deadly force AFTER an attack is over. If the evidence showed that the attack was still in progress at the time deadly force was used and also that the attack was likely to cause serious injury or death, and also that there was no reasonable alternative but to use deadly force, then deadly force would have been justified to prevent serious death/injury.

Immediately before the attack, if she reasonably feared that she was about to be seriously injured or killed, then the use of deadly force to prevent the imminent attack might be justified, depending on the evidence.

Remember, legal deadly force is about the PREVENTION of serious injury or death. It is never legal to used deadly force to retaliate after an attack or to punish someone for an attack that is over.
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Your first sentence is too absolute to be accurate; there was a window (and it's what I was referring to) after the slam where she would have been fully justified in defending herself; since he was larger, male and (presumably) disproportionately strong, lethal force would likely have been seen as 'reasonable.'

I think we're slicing it very finely, particularly what we mean by 'after', but folks do in lethal force cases-

After the body slam, she had been the victim of a physical assault which would make a reasonable person afraid for their life; IMMEDIATELY following (as in, we're hitting the ground) she would have, IMHO, been fully justified in stopping what a reasonable person could conclude was an on-going attack. Once he turned and started walking away, I agree; there was no longer an imminent threat.

To demonstrate the portion of time I was referring to, it's timestamp 0.57 to about 1.01 on the video. A narrow window, but still there- and it's what I was referring to.

Larry
 
alsaqr said:
IMO: Little or none. Most prosecutors don't prosecute females who are violently attacked by scumbags twice convicted of domestic assault.

From the link:

Heatherly was sentenced in Jefferson County Circuit Court in 2007 to two years in prison after he pleaded guilty to domestic assault, assault and endangering the welfare of a child.

In 2009, he was sentenced to three years in prison after a jury convicted him of second-degree domestic assault and violating an order of protection.
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The record and prior actions of the man would not have been relevant at all, and would not be admitted into evidence and made known to a jury, unless they had been known by the defender beforehand.
 
Kleanbore said:
The record and prior actions of the man would not have been relevant at all, and would not be admitted into evidence and made known to a jury, unless they had been known by the defender beforehand.
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Yep, i'm well aware of all that stuff.

We had a case about 30 years ago where a man who was being beaten by a convicted violent felon killed the perp. Prosecutor cited the convictions for violent felonies in his decision not to charge the shooter.
 
alsaqr said:
Yep, i'm well aware of all that stuff.

We had a case about 30 years ago where a man who was being beaten by a convicted violent felon killed the perp. Prosecutor cited the convictions for violent felonies in his decision not to charge the shooter.
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That would usually not be an appropriate legal reason to not charge. There may have been other factors.

Many people like to try to classify people was "good guys" and "bad guys". Well, quite a number of very bad guys have properly prevailed in their defenses of justification after having used force in confrontations, and many persons who have harmed "bad guys" have properly failed in their defenses of justification, sometimes failing to get jury instructions that would even permit such defenses to proceed.

What matters is the event, and not what one party or the other may have done before.
 
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