Powder for .260 Rem 143gr ELDX (1k yd deer round?)

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Feel free to take offense, it wasn't intended, but I'm not going to retract any statement. The "accurizing" you describe to your AR, and then some, was how I paid my bills for several years. After building over 200 AR's myself in the last couple decades, and rebuilding twice as many more, as well as competing in various walks of precision shooting, the AR just doesn't hold up to bolt guns. That's not my opinion, that's reality. I build a couple dozen sub-moa AR's every year still, even after closing my shop, getting a 1/2"-3/4" at 100yrd AR isn't a challenge. But the best precision AR builders in the world don't come close to the precision available in bolt guns.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the loving care you or I or any builder puts into an AR, it's a design issue.
I give you that. Especially with today's offerings in which my daughter's Axis was $300 and an hour of work and some reloading made it an MOA gun (until it heats up). Add in the PRS offerings that come in at the same price point I built this rifle for and I must give you this point. When I built it, hunting wasn't even the objective with it. Completing the "milk jug challenge" was. It did that so on to better things. I just don't consider this particular rifle a handicap.
Another interesting point the consider. We all posted up some ballpark calculator numbers. We all have different numbers lol. Numbers are different enough to seriously complicate a .5 MOA shot at 500 yards, let alone 1k. Using a typical calulator, like JBM or AB there are MANY parameters that have to be spot on to get you on paper at long distance. Scope height over bore is notable 2", ZERO RANGE can be a big issue 250yds. If your zero is off by .3 inches at 100 yards you can really notice this way out there in your data. Weather conditions change constantly and can really show up at beyond 1k. Heck, many times the given BC for a bullet is incorrect from the manufacturer... that gives you a miss or worse a wounded animal at normal ranges, let alone at extended ranges. No good.

The point I am trying to make here is that the calculators help you, BUT you generally have to tweak things a bit to get everything to line up with your POI. Once you combine that with your ACTUAL field dope you can finally be getting somewhere repeatably. Go shoot A LOT and get things sorted out. The bullet wont lie, but the calculators sometimes do. Once you do that you can start fighting the weather : ). And the shooting is more fun than the hunting so no problem there.

As I stated earlier, I will stick to the pure hardware aspect of this. Shoot game at any distance you can do it reliably. Heck, check out Broz's posts on Rokslide and longrangehunting. He is an absolute beast and can teach you a lot if you take the time. I shoot a few deer ever year out to around 600-650 yards, and I would go further if my land allowed and felt comfortable. This is done with a variety of rifles. 308, 260, 300 mag, and 338 Edge. I have not lost one in 15 years of hunting because I ONLY take the shot I know I can make. I have passed up MANY good deer that I simply did not feel 100 percent comfortable with the conditions of the shot. Simple as that. Hunt long if you want, but do it right for the sake of the animal. I will take Varminterror's advice of working out to the range. Might end up realizing it won't work before then and this load is regulated to say 600yds and under with LR target only.

Thoughts on your platform... If you are shooting consistently under .75 moa with a gasser you are doing very well! Their 2 part recoil makes them tough, for me at least, to really shoot well. I have gassers that shoot as well as most bolt rifles, but they can be difficult to get there compared to a bolt action. Tuning the gas system is vital. You want just enough to reliably eject and chamber. I did play with necksizing a bit since the heavy bolt can chamber them. Good luck getting them back out without shooting though and it required a full stroke. The rifle weighs in at 15# loaded too. That really helps minimize things. It recoils less than any of my .223's and I watch my impacts. Does have a bit of a bite to the guy on the next bench though. lol

More thoughts on the caliber... you do not NEED 1000ftlbs to take a deer. Not even close, but more bullet and more cartridge does indeed tend to work better at extended ranges, provided you can shoot them of course. Mine are suppressed/braked etc, so they are plenty friendly. I would grab the 338 for a 300 yard shot if the conditions warranted it. I don't need it, but man it sure helps. I have never wished for less gun on a long shot or in poor conditions fwiw.

Continue to research bullets as you are. I find the AMAX does well from my rifles on deer at extended ranges (100 to 650 yards, 178amax 308@2650 muzzle,140 amax 260@2800 muzzle), but the Berger offerings tend to do better in the animal and fly a bit better in the wind from what I have experienced, though I have only been shooting them heavily for few years now. The 215 hybrid in 300mag is amazing, and their 140 6.5 offerings are worth you checking out for sure. I will clarify that these bullets favor extended range shots, and that I prefer a good old soft point for anything inside 100 yards for those rifles. I thought about the AMAX. If the ELDX had not been an option and I wasn't worried about the "match" designation on them, I might have tried them. Did in the 123gr variety they had before they went away. And yeah, I would have to carry a mag of the SST load if I was hunting a situation where both a long and short range shot was possible. Or just watch to closer deer get taken by my "spotter" (usually one of my girls).

Congrats on the lever guns! What caliber? I have a twin to that in 4570, and it REALLY smacks the deer lol.Really fun to shoot too. Tough to argue with a 405 WFN smacking the berm downrange. Not a fan of the 325 FTX to save you some fuss maybe... it seems to like a little more velocity than my shoulder does, but then again ymmv there.
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30/30 is the other one. My younger daughter wanted us to hunt with twin rifles. I will throw together some 150 gr loads for it. I hope it likes 4320 as I have about 12# of it I picked up on clearance for $15/lb. Minute of pop can at 100 will make me happy.

The 1895 is back for warranty work right now. I already decided against the FTX pill you see pictured. Going to try some 350gr JFP and cast plinking loads in it once it returns. If that doesn't work to my liking (minute of deer at 200yds max) then on to 405 cast loading that seem to do well for others.

My biggest problem with the really long range hunting is that at 1k even with good bullets your talking 1.25 to 1.5 seconds time of flight on a critter capable of moving 40 feet per second.
You can do everything right make the perfect shot and oops the deer just decided to take a step forward.
Yes, as a bow hunter I know exactly what you mean. It is the one factor I can't control/calculate.
 
The heart of a deer is the same size as a 1 QT milk jug, not a gallon jug. The lungs are as big as a gallon. I don't hunt when I don't KNOW I'll make the delivery every time.

Here's a litmus test for you: If you line up 50 milk jugs at 1,000, and I give you 50 rounds, how many will be broken when your bolt locks back?
 
The heart of a deer is the same size as a 1 QT milk jug, not a gallon jug. The lungs are as big as a gallon. I don't hunt when I don't KNOW I'll make the delivery every time.

Here's a litmus test for you: If you line up 50 milk jugs at 1,000, and I give you 50 rounds, how many will be broken when your bolt locks back?
At my current rate 35. I know that isn't acceptable. Hence, the search for a new load. Practice is a given. If it wasn't 13* outside, I might go give it a go though. Only went up to 10 at a time so far.
 
Where in the United States would you need to take a 1000 yard shot on a deer?

If a person can't get closer to a deer than 1000 yards, they need to learn how to hunt, not learn how to shoot.

If a person CAN get closer than 1000 yards....do it.
 
At my current rate 35. I know that isn't acceptable. Hence, the search for a new load. Practice is a given. If it wasn't 13* outside, I might go give it a go though. Only went up to 10 at a time so far.

Saying "10 at a time" made me realize, I should have thought more about my hypothetical scenario this morning. If I give you ONE round a day for 50 days, and hang ONE jug at 1,000yrds each day, how many cold bore impacts will you make?

I often joke with my buddies, "Cold bore" is made of of 2 Four Letter Words because it's really that bad...

Here's the downside, and it works out very nicely since you're saying 35 out of 50... In a standard distribution group (aka a round group), 68.2% on a 6x10" milk jug is 99.8% reliable on an 18"x30" target. We all like to think our misses are "JUST off of the edge," but when you put a big backer target behind your milk jug, the true group size shows up. Printed on paper, 35/50 on a milk jug is typically an 18" group. Group distribution is something I've seen often neglected by many/most of the new long range shooters out there. When 100% of your cold bore shots hit the milk jug, then 1000yrds on deer has absolutely no unethical component for you. Of course, you'll also be a world leading professional match competitor...

I take newbies out as part of the classes I offer a few times a year, some of them the first time they've ever shot a rifle, and spot for them to "walk on" to targets at 1,000yrds. The Youtube Milk Jug deal is a game, at best. Your own life right now is a potential gutshot 30% of the time, and as you've said, that's stringing them together. You're picking your environmentals right now, so instead of going out and getting DOPE to know how your load responds to temperature changes, you're just not shooting. Maybe you won't hunt during cold weather either, we don't really have that luxury in the Midwest - our rifle seasons are too short to sit out, and often the coldest days are the best days. I shot my buck this year on the coldest day of the year, high of 22 raw,-5F windchill high... Sucked, thoroughly. I took the opportunity to shoot at a different location during my lunch breaks too - also sucked, thoroughly. But there have been years where I've hunted outside of Eagle, CO at the same temp as my home range in KS that week, but 4,500ft higher, and also outside of Maricopa, AZ, same elevation but 50F warmer than my home range in KS, all within 2wks... My go-to coyote load shifts around 4-6" at 600yrds with those changes, a difference in an ethical kill vs. a gutshot or a miss.

Here are some examples of what we have to answer to improve cold bore percentages, because Kestrel/AB/Strelok/JBM/4DoF/etc won't always give you the perfect, real-world correction: What's the correction at 1123yrds vs. 982? What's the load do when your temp is 13F in the morning vs. 35F in the midday? What does the mirage do across that particular hunting field as that temperature swings up and back down? How does it respond at 2,100ft elev outside of Asheville vs. 400ft outside of Cincinnati (picking random OH and NC cities in which I've worked)? What's the elevation correction in a right to left 13mph wind? Left to right? These are some of the holes we have to plug to improve cold bore impact percentage.

And of course, you don't have to beg a milk jug to hold still for 5-10 sec while you range, read, correct, dial, hold, acquire picture, and break, plus another second and a half waiting for the bullet to arrive. I have taken all of my long shots on deer over water or under a feeder, where I know the deer will come in and stop, relaxed, head down, and stay put for a while, and I've used a spotter to read, run, and reread my enviromentals as I focus on position, acquisition, and reticle picture.
 
I went out last week and got some practice in at 500 yards with a very accurate and consistent load I developed when it was 65 degrees. I was suprised to see that under the conditions of 19 degrees it required an additional 0.3 mil in elevation.
 
part of that was probably due to the temp lowering the DA so the air is thicker, and part is probably due to the lower temp lowering your muzzle velocity. for the two powders i use most in 260, they varied 1.7fps/* and .5fps/* so that's 78fps vs 23fps difference. put that in your calculator and see how much difference you get. honestly, it's mostly that as the lower DA is probably only worth a tenth at 500 yards.
 
Saying "10 at a time" made me realize, I should have thought more about my hypothetical scenario this morning. If I give you ONE round a day for 50 days, and hang ONE jug at 1,000yrds each day, how many cold bore impacts will you make?
Let me get back to you on that!
I often joke with my buddies, "Cold bore" is made of of 2 Four Letter Words because it's really that bad...
Very true
Here's the downside, and it works out very nicely since you're saying 35 out of 50... In a standard distribution group (aka a round group), 68.2% on a 6x10" milk jug is 99.8% reliable on an 18"x30" target. We all like to think our misses are "JUST off of the edge," but when you put a big backer target behind your milk jug, the true group size shows up. Printed on paper, 35/50 on a milk jug is typically an 18" group. Group distribution is something I've seen often neglected by many/most of the new long range shooters out there. When 100% of your cold bore shots hit the milk jug, then 1000yrds on deer has absolutely no unethical component for you. Of course, you'll also be a world leading professional match competitor...
The backing last time shows 14" mostly horizontal spread. Hence my interest in better wind resistance.
I take newbies out as part of the classes I offer a few times a year, some of them the first time they've ever shot a rifle, and spot for them to "walk on" to targets at 1,000yrds. The Youtube Milk Jug deal is a game, at best. Your own life right now is a potential gutshot 30% of the time, and as you've said, that's stringing them together. You're picking your environmentals right now, so instead of going out and getting DOPE to know how your load responds to temperature changes, you're just not shooting. Maybe you won't hunt during cold weather either, we don't really have that luxury in the Midwest - our rifle seasons are too short to sit out, and often the coldest days are the best days. I shot my buck this year on the coldest day of the year, high of 22 raw,-5F windchill high... Sucked, thoroughly. I took the opportunity to shoot at a different location during my lunch breaks too - also sucked, thoroughly. But there have been years where I've hunted outside of Eagle, CO at the same temp as my home range in KS that week, but 4,500ft higher, and also outside of Maricopa, AZ, same elevation but 50F warmer than my home range in KS, all within 2wks... My go-to coyote load shifts around 4-6" at 600yrds with those changes, a difference in an ethical kill vs. a gutshot or a miss.
Here I have and advantage in longer season that allows hunting in anywhere from 80-20* weather. For the days when I don't have a confident DOPE, I can go out with a shorter range weapon in the woods instead.
Here are some examples of what we have to answer to improve cold bore percentages, because Kestrel/AB/Strelok/JBM/4DoF/etc won't always give you the perfect, real-world correction: What's the correction at 1123yrds vs. 982? What's the load do when your temp is 13F in the morning vs. 35F in the midday? What does the mirage do across that particular hunting field as that temperature swings up and back down? How does it respond at 2,100ft elev outside of Asheville vs. 400ft outside of Cincinnati (picking random OH and NC cities in which I've worked)? What's the elevation correction in a right to left 13mph wind? Left to right? These are some of the holes we have to plug to improve cold bore impact percentage.
I would not be out in OH with the .260 for deer unless I wanted to end up with a costly ticket. There I have an H&R ultra and a newly acquired 45-70 to use for 200-250yds max (though most shots are <100yds. No real need for temp and elevation considerations there. I do however keep a range tape for the 150yd plus shots that MIGHT be offered with those high arcing rounds.
And of course, you don't have to beg a milk jug to hold still for 5-10 sec while you range, read, correct, dial, hold, acquire picture, and break, plus another second and a half waiting for the bullet to arrive. I have taken all of my long shots on deer over water or under a feeder, where I know the deer will come in and stop, relaxed, head down, and stay put for a while, and I've used a spotter to read, run, and reread my enviromentals as I focus on position, acquisition, and reticle picture.
Read the next reply for the amount of control I have over the area I would be shooting in. I would not try it in an area I did not have at least some idea of what I was walking into. If it isn't the best it can be, I can always not fire. That is up until the hammer is released.
For your replies, please expand. I have a ton of respect for someone with as much knowledge as you do, so please do not take offense.
Where are you even going to get a 1000 yd shot on a deer in North Carolina?
I have a few fields, one of which is my "target field" shots of 1500yds possible. The deer come out right where I want them to as well there. The owner gives me permission for 2 does each year. I practice there regularly through the year. I can set up any distance away so stepping it out and starting with shorter shots is no issues. So far I have netted 50, 150, 400, and 600yd deer kills there using less gun (.243, .308, 7x57, .257 respectively). It isn't like I am going out having never shot at range under hunting conditions before.
Where in the United States would you need to take a 1000 yard shot on a deer?

If a person can't get closer to a deer than 1000 yards, they need to learn how to hunt, not learn how to shoot.

If a person CAN get closer than 1000 yards....do it.
I am a bowhunter. I CAN definitely get closer. 7yds from the ground with no blind close enough?
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For everyone:
There are different types of hunting and I like pretty much all of the ones I have tried. I have yet to try any bird hunting though I did just pick up a shotgun for it. But pretty much everything else I have tried. I can get close, but the quintessential point to long range shooting for a hunter is to prove those skills on game as well.

I may have to step up to a magnum. If so, I am not opposed to them. I am simply more confident in the endless number of rounds I can practice with comfortably in a near 0 recoil rifle. The big question to me is getting enough precision and power downrange out of it to do the job. That is the question I am asking. What is the best chance powder I have?

The ethics are on me and something I have to live with if I make the wrong choice. I will make that choice at that time based on conditions not even I can know right now. It may not be this year that I take the shot because I don't feel ready. May not be for a few if ever. I can be pretty picky and may when the time comes decide I don't feel it is worth it. Who knows? But at least I am asking with honesty for the best odds for the info.

Have I lost game? Yes. Not many who have hunted as long as I have have not lost at least one of something they hit. When I look back the losses have been at close range and not a single deer over 150yds has not gone into the freezer. Of course, that is also where 90% or more of my kills have been too so the ratio applies. I have helped others recover game that otherwise would have been lost as well which may not be much, but eases my conscience some. I have a dog trained for that just in case as well.
 
If you can get that close, DO IT.

I have no objection to shooting at long range INANIMATE targets. You have no business taking a 1000 yard shot at any living creature unless you're a military sniper.
 
If you can get that close, DO IT.

I have no objection to shooting at long range INANIMATE targets. You have no business taking a 1000 yard shot at any living creature unless you're a military sniper.
I respect your choice and opinion. However, us discussing our views may simply lead to neither convincing the other. Sorry. Kinda like me convincing people a crossbow kill is not actually an archery kill. (I hunt with both and still feel that way). It just ends with arguing.

If you happen to know of a powder you would use for "inanimate" targets with this bullet, please, let me know though.
 
No, I can't do that. You'll have to "prove" whatever it is that you need to prove by shooting an animal at that range without my help. If you wanted to talk about how to hit a 6" plate @1,000 yards, that would be different.
 
No offense taken. I'm not criticizing your "choices," I'm trying to offer my experience and advice to help you fast track you on your goal, and so you don't follow the same mistakes those of us who have gone before have made. Some people get so blinded by their own idea, they can't see any problems with the plan. That's what I do for a living - plug holes in good ideas to make them great, and prevent catastrophe.

I referenced the elevation change between OH and NC on the premise it seems as if you live in OH, therefore would get most of your shooting done there, so your DOPE will be based there, while your hunt will be in NC. There are still a lot of questions to answer, even if you try to limit your hunting to days and temperatures. I've hunted in over 20 US states, none of them have constant temperature throughout the day - the flattest temps I've ever hunted are always the worst conditions, where it starts cold and stays cold all day, while normal days might swing from teens to 40's. One year when I hunted NC, we were in the teens in the morning, and upper 30's that afternoon. There are tricks to mitigate temperature effects on your ammunition too.

243win, 308win, 7x57, and 257roberts at 600yrds and under aren't "less gun" than 260rem. The Mauser and 308win are a lot more gun (or at least should be if you're loading properly), and the 243win and 257bob are effectively the same class as the 260.

Lots of guys don't care for long range hunting, and often, rightfully so. If a guy does his homework, it's really not so different than any other type of hunting - nobody is sitting on a ridge with a 1000yrd circle of fire around them, because on 99% of that area, the deer simply won't travel, so it's wasted area. I set up my "kill zone" the same, no matter how long my shot might be, whether it's 20yrds with a bow, 200yrds with a revolver, or 1,000yrds with a rifle. The game has to enter the kill zone and stop long enough for a shot. The longer I want to shoot, the more careful I have to be in selecting the kill zone and the shooting position, to allow the proper line of sight, but the game is still going to travel the same small area they travel.
 
If you happen to know of a powder you would use for "inanimate" targets with this bullet, please, let me know though.

Despite a lot of diversion in these two pages, this has already been answered. It's really pretty simple, if you want to play the 260rem at long range with 140grn+ bullets there would be TWO recipes in my mind:

1) Lapua brass, H4350, Federal 210M

OR, what I'd REALLY prefer, to gain access to small rifle primers:

2) Lapua PALMA brass, necked and turned, H4350, CCI450 or BR4

If either of these don't give consistent performance for your 1,000yrd dreams, then there's something broken in your rifle or in your reloading process.
 
If a person can't get closer to a deer than 1000 yards, they need to learn how to hunt, not learn how to shoot.

Exactly, IMO "long range hunting" is an oxymoron.

Hunting used to be all about woodsmanship and knowing the habits of the animal hunted. Those were the traits that the most successful hunters shared. Get a hand-me-down M94, an orange vest and hat, and you were ready to go. It seems the sport has changed to be equipment orientated, much to the delight of the people who sell that stuff.

Its a fact that hunting is losing popularity. Could it be that fretting over your equipment isn't as much fun as getting out in the woods and becoming part of nature?
 
For a .260" at a 1000yds for deer even the 26 Nosler would be a stretch.
I guess sometimes we need to shoot for the moon to get over the barn.
 
Hunting used to be all about woodsmanship and knowing the habits of the animal hunted.

I've always found statements like this to be ironic, as I've found the design of long range sets to be more demanding of "woodsmanship" skills and require a heightened understanding of the "habits of the animal hunted" than I ever have found archery hunting or "typical range" rifle hunting. You have to know where the deer will be, how the wind moves, and how the land rises and falls, so you don't cut yourself out of line of sight.

Our world simply isn't that flat - the farther you back up, the more mother nature puts in your way. Setting up with a bow is daftly simple - walk deer trails, find a good convergence of regular traffic, find a stand or blind position with a sufficient ingress route within 30yrds of the convergence... Done... Rifle hunting at standard ranges, say 100-300yrds, might give access to a few more convergence areas where the game expose themselves along an edge, but then it's equally lower odds because it requires the game to expose itself. When you zoom back another 400-700yrds, you typically don't gain any additional exposure to the game at all - just air time. Again, our world simply isn't flat enough - it's far too easy for a simple 3ft rise or fall in the land to completely obscure the line of sight. I've found dozens on dozens of fantastic spots to hunt with a bow which could never be hunted from 100yrds out. I've found dozens on dozens of spots which are fantastic opportunities for 100-400yrd rifle hunting, which also could never be hunted from 500-1,000yrds... When you're hunting on a "micro scale," as in very close to the game, the land rarely works against you. Move back a half mile and you'd be amazed at the percentage of the field which is either obscured, OR which would never, ever receive game traffic (aka, wasted field of view).

A wannabe long range rifle hunter plopping himself down on a ridge line overlooking any old field with a treeline a half mile away has no better odds than some wannabe bowhunter who hangs his stand over a 3yr old rubline... But a guy who sets of a productive 600yrd deer set has to know his land and his deer-herd better, in my experience in doing both, than the bowhunter who picked the biggest tree on the downwind side of a deer trail.
 
No offense taken. I'm not criticizing your "choices," I'm trying to offer my experience and advice to help you fast track you on your goal, and so you don't follow the same mistakes those of us who have gone before have made. Some people get so blinded by their own idea, they can't see any problems with the plan. That's what I do for a living - plug holes in good ideas to make them great, and prevent catastrophe.
If you reference this to communications for the military, it describes a ton of my job too. Shooting to a satellite is sometimes as hard as what I expect to do here. Especially when your Ops O decides it must be done through a forest canopy you aren't allowed to clear. I literally used my climber once and 550 cord to go up and tie limbs out of the way.
I referenced the elevation change between OH and NC on the premise it seems as if you live in OH, therefore would get most of your shooting done there, so your DOPE will be based there, while your hunt will be in NC. There are still a lot of questions to answer, even if you try to limit your hunting to days and temperatures. I've hunted in over 20 US states, none of them have constant temperature throughout the day - the flattest temps I've ever hunted are always the worst conditions, where it starts cold and stays cold all day, while normal days might swing from teens to 40's. One year when I hunted NC, we were in the teens in the morning, and upper 30's that afternoon. There are tricks to mitigate temperature effects on your ammunition too.
Sorry, my profile reflects my home of record. I am stationed in NC. SInce like next month I head to CA for a few months, then may deploy, then get orders... I just leave it that way.
243win, 308win, 7x57, and 257roberts at 600yrds and under aren't "less gun" than 260rem. The Mauser and 308win are a lot more gun (or at least should be if you're loading properly), and the 243win and 257bob are effectively the same class as the 260.
I will respectfully withhold my usually degrading comments about the .308. Not my favorite. Most would call the others less because either the reduced pressure the books load two of them to because of 93 and 95 Mauser actions or bullet weight in the other.
Lots of guys don't care for long range hunting, and often, rightfully so. If a guy does his homework, it's really not so different than any other type of hunting - nobody is sitting on a ridge with a 1000yrd circle of fire around them, because on 99% of that area, the deer simply won't travel, so it's wasted area. I set up my "kill zone" the same, no matter how long my shot might be, whether it's 20yrds with a bow, 200yrds with a revolver, or 1,000yrds with a rifle. The game has to enter the kill zone and stop long enough for a shot. The longer I want to shoot, the more careful I have to be in selecting the kill zone and the shooting position, to allow the proper line of sight, but the game is still going to travel the same small area they travel.

Despite a lot of diversion in these two pages, this has already been answered. It's really pretty simple, if you want to play the 260rem at long range with 140grn+ bullets there would be TWO recipes in my mind:

1) Lapua brass, H4350, Federal 210M

OR, what I'd REALLY prefer, to gain access to small rifle primers:

2) Lapua PALMA brass, necked and turned, H4350, CCI450 or BR4

If either of these don't give consistent performance for your 1,000yrd dreams, then there's something broken in your rifle or in your reloading process.
The BR2's are on hand, the H4350 and H1000 are supposed to be in this week, and well I have 200 new Hornady brass (.243 sized up) prepped so I will try that first since it is ready to go. The bullets are on order as well.
I've always found statements like this to be ironic, as I've found the design of long range sets to be more demanding of "woodsmanship" skills and require a heightened understanding of the "habits of the animal hunted" than I ever have found archery hunting or "typical range" rifle hunting. You have to know where the deer will be, how the wind moves, and how the land rises and falls, so you don't cut yourself out of line of sight.

Our world simply isn't that flat - the farther you back up, the more mother nature puts in your way. Setting up with a bow is daftly simple - walk deer trails, find a good convergence of regular traffic, find a stand or blind position with a sufficient ingress route within 30yrds of the convergence... Done... Rifle hunting at standard ranges, say 100-300yrds, might give access to a few more convergence areas where the game expose themselves along an edge, but then it's equally lower odds because it requires the game to expose itself. When you zoom back another 400-700yrds, you typically don't gain any additional exposure to the game at all - just air time. Again, our world simply isn't flat enough - it's far too easy for a simple 3ft rise or fall in the land to completely obscure the line of sight. I've found dozens on dozens of fantastic spots to hunt with a bow which could never be hunted from 100yrds out. I've found dozens on dozens of spots which are fantastic opportunities for 100-400yrd rifle hunting, which also could never be hunted from 500-1,000yrds... When you're hunting on a "micro scale," as in very close to the game, the land rarely works against you. Move back a half mile and you'd be amazed at the percentage of the field which is either obscured, OR which would never, ever receive game traffic (aka, wasted field of view).

A wannabe long range rifle hunter plopping himself down on a ridge line overlooking any old field with a treeline a half mile away has no better odds than some wannabe bowhunter who hangs his stand over a 3yr old rubline... But a guy who sets of a productive 600yrd deer set has to know his land and his deer-herd better, in my experience in doing both, than the bowhunter who picked the biggest tree on the downwind side of a deer trail.

I could not have said this any better. While you do down play the skill required of actually executing a bowhunt once that deer is front and center (drawing unseen, getting some semblance of form, making sure the deer is relaxed to minimize string jumping), the rest is really true.
 
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While you do down play the skill required of actually executing a bowhunt once that deer is front and center

No downplay by me - if I can do it, it can't be very hard. I started deer hunting as kid with a 60lb recurve when I weighed only 10lbs more than my draw weight.
 
I’m not moralizing here when I say this. The OP is free to hunt what he wants how he wants.

I just know how difficult it is to get a first round hit on a stationary target the size of a deer's vital area at 1,000 yards with a purpose built target rifle from a supported prone position.

It's a low percentage proposition.

To do it with an AR platform in field conditions (off hand, propped up on a fence post, shooting sticks, out a deer blind widow?) Well, you see the point. The least relevant question to me would be, "what powder should I use?"

Do you have a place to practice at these distances?

p.s.

Now this is me and my psyche. Take it for what it's worth. I put a good shot on a deer that I feel 100% confident in (distance is irrelevant) but he isn't DRT. I get to where he was and don't find blood. Self doubt starts to set in. I begin looking. He went in this direction. I keep looking, no blood. ****! Did I hit him? I keep walking and looking. Every step = more doubt. I replay the shot in my mind. Did I flinch? I expand the search radius. I begin to think about the guys back at the camp and the good natured needling that's waiting for me if I don't find this deer......etc......etc.

That sucks!
 
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To do it with an AR platform in field conditions (off hand, propped up on a fence post, shooting sticks, out a deer blind widow?) Well, you see the point. The least relevant question to me would be, "what powder should I use?"

Exactly. With a necked-up .243, no less. I think it was just a way of stirring the pot and I was dumb enough to take the bait.
 
I’m not moralizing here when I say this. The OP is free to hunt what he wants how he wants.

I just know how difficult it is to get a first round hit on a stationary target the size of a deer's vital area at 1,000 yards with a purpose built target rifle from a supported prone position.

It's a low percentage proposition.

To do it with an AR platform in field conditions (off hand, propped up on a fence post, shooting sticks, out a deer blind widow?) Well, you see the point. The least relevant question to me would be, "what powder should I use?"

Do you have a place to practice at these distances?

p.s.

Now this is me and my psyche. Take it for what it's worth. I put a good shot on a deer that I feel 100% confident in (distance is irrelevant) but he isn't DRT. I get to where he was and don't find blood. Self doubt starts to set in. I begin looking. He went in this direction. I keep looking, no blood. ****! Did I hit him? I keep walking and looking. Every step = more doubt. I replay the shot in my mind. Did I flinch? I expand the search radius. I begin to think about the guys back at the camp and the good natured needling that's waiting for me if I don't find this deer......etc......etc.

That sucks!
As said above, not only do I have a place to practice, I can practice in the same exact field that I plan to make the shot in from the spot I plan to shoot from.

I know what you mean about not finding sign right away. Had that feeling. I sit back, take a break and call for friends and my dog and do everything I can.
How are the necks in the Hornady brass after bringing in that shoulder? Or are you reaming/turning?
I turn to uniform, but most only show a slight scraping on one side. Hornady brass is actually pretty good stuff. I would have to get back home and measure for neck thickness as I don't recall it. I am at work at the moment in training (networking course).
 
As said above, not only do I have a place to practice, I can practice in the same exact field that I plan to make the shot in from the spot I plan to shoot from.

I know what you mean about not finding sign right away. Had that feeling. I sit back, take a break and call for friends and my dog and do everything I can.

Well, it sounds like you're all set. Good luck and happy hunting. :thumbup:
 
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