Mini 14 vs. AR15

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Kame B.

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Click bait title :p

For your viewing pleasure. What happens when a custom Spikes AR15 is on the same range with a custom Ruger Mini 14? Well, you make a video of course. enjoy!

P.S. this is not really a competition or debate, just showing off two awesome rifles

 
The mini-14 shooter took his time, not that its a bad thing, but the Spikes shooter was pretty quick with the follow ups. I know you said it wasn't a competition, but if it were there would need to be a time frame and number of shots.

That's a nice mini-14 with the Shilen, wouldn't mind having one.

Are you one of the shooters? It would be nice to know how the mini-14 is working out for the owner, I've always thought an aftermarket barrel on a mini would be an interesting project as I've always liked the action.
 
the mini-14 typically fails in the accuracy realm without major inhancements. Ruger acknowledged this by its "accurized" version where they hang some sort of barrel weight off the end.

had a mini-14 for many years, some year ago. owning it at the same time i owned my first Colt AR. wanted to love the mini, it didnt want to love me. never understood the demand and high cost of them, given their accuracy, mag limitations, scope mount options etc. The mini went on down the road. Never regretted it.
 
Charger442 said:
the mini-14 typically fails in the accuracy realm without major inhancements.
Click to expand...
So does the majority of my bone stock Colt AR15 collection, to a widely varying degree. Too bad Ruger is a proprietary manufacturer and Accuracy Systems or some others aren't considered as such, building their rifles on Ruger frames, so hairs will most likely be split ad nauseum.
 
d2wing said:
If a stock Colt AR doesn't outshoot a stock mini 14 by a good margin it is not the rifles fault.
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After the advent of moderately priced floater AR:s from dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers in a fiercely competitive marketplace many seem to have forgotten how mediocre the majority of AR:s were as late as mid 90's and many base model AR:s still are today. Even fewer remember the M16 Rifle Accuracy Parameters study that determined through representative sample sized tests that median accuracy at 100yd for a factory new rifle in perfect conditions using M193 ball was 4.05". The 110yd sub-2" groups of one of my better A2 HBARs with a Redfield five-star scope sufficed for quite a bit of back-patting at the range back in the day. Most AR:s and Minis were far worse with little if any discernible difference between the two. Times have changed as have the rifles.
 
Fun video. Looked like a nice day at the range. I like the Mini-14 but agree with those who say an AR-15 will outshoot a Mini every time.
 
<*(((>< said:
The mini-14 shooter took his time, not that its a bad thing, but the Spikes shooter was pretty quick with the follow ups. I know you said it wasn't a competition, but if it were there would need to be a time frame and number of shots.

That's a nice mini-14 with the Shilen, wouldn't mind having one.

Are you one of the shooters? It would be nice to know how the mini-14 is working out for the owner, I've always thought an aftermarket barrel on a mini would be an interesting project as I've always liked the action.
Click to expand...

I'm the Mini 14 shooter, my brother is the one with the "Punisher" Spikes AR. He has a very nice, expensive geissele trigger, my Mini 14 still has the stock trigger. I have to take my time with that thing, in fact if there is one complaint I have about the Mini 14, it is the trigger. But hey, it's my fault I haven't sent my trigger group to brimstone gunsmith. $55 bucks is hard to complain about, just dont know why I haven't got off my butt. The Shilen barrel is nothing to laugh at, I'll tell ya that. I've had the barrel for 2 years now, and the Mini 14 is one I got back in 1997. The rifle already shot pretty good with the old pencil barrel, it was my go to pig gun for the longest time before I re-barreled. It will keep 1.5 inch groups with basic commercial ammo. The best I've used so far is Winchester SXZ 55gr practice ammo ($11.50 a box of 20rds), it is a Bass Pro Shops exclusive ammo. But not really, you can find the same stuff in the white box at wal-mart in 5.56, not .223, and the Shilen barrel is .223 only. We both shot the Winchester SXZ 55gr .223 ammo. I say go for it, find a old cheap Mini 14 ranch, and re-barrel it, or if you have an old pre 580 series laying around. The barrel was $230.00 2 years ago, now it is $259.00 on MidwayUSA, it was a $90.00 install from a very reputable gun smith in my area (https://dproutdoors.com/). The fun in the rifle is trying to localize the gas system, Mini 14's are over gassed to insure reliability with all kinds of ammo, and that is the down fall to the mini 14's accuracy. It's give and take with that rifle, you can reduce the gas bushing till you are restricted to certain types of loads, or keep it's undeniable reliability, and violent action. I've reduced the bushing to .050, added a stiffer recoil spring, and recoil buffers in the action. I also fiberglass bedded the receiver, fabricated a "pinky finger rest" grip cap, cut the curve out the butt, and fabricated a inch thick butt piece so my slip-on recoil pad and cheek riser could have a nice tight fit to the stock, and the perfect LOP. All in all, me and my brother both agree the Mini 14 was more fun to improve than it was to build his Spikes from the ground up. I'm a tradesman by career and I love a challenge, the Mini 14 is a fun project to someone that is good with their hands. This gun aint meant for lego builders.

Here is a 1.3 inch group I recorded, you can clearly see that it is nothing than bad trigger pull that throws one shot off of .3 inches from being MOA accurate with cheap commercial ammo. It can keep these groups with reasonable sustained firing from the rifle. I've never mag-dumped the rifle with the new barrel on it:

Grip cap: 20160603_103543.jpg

Butt stock: 20160912_184201.jpg
 
hq said:
After the advent of moderately priced floater AR:s from dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers in a fiercely competitive marketplace many seem to have forgotten how mediocre the majority of AR:s were as late as mid 90's and many base model AR:s still are today. Even fewer remember the M16 Rifle Accuracy Parameters study that determined through representative sample sized tests that median accuracy at 100yd for a factory new rifle in perfect conditions using M193 ball was 4.05". The 110yd sub-2" groups of one of my better A2 HBARs with a Redfield five-star scope sufficed for quite a bit of back-patting at the range back in the day. Most AR:s and Minis were far worse with little if any discernible difference between the two. Times have changed as have the rifles.
Click to expand...

You know, the Ar15 also had 50 years of development in it's time. If that kind of attention and improvement was made to the Mini 14 as the AR15 did, who knows what kind of fine shooter it would turn out to be. They can be tweaked, it just didnt have the U.S. military and politicians backing it to make it better. Stoner made the AR15, but Jim Sullivan made it into the M16, he also developed the Mini 14 and other great rifles. Everything can be improved, just depends on the contract.
 
I don't post here often however this video really makes me want a mini (never shot one). It also really makes me want to encourage you to improve your trigger and show me the result video. regardless of what platform is better I fell like you have a real shooter on your hands. send that trigger off!
 
Kame B. said:
You know, the Ar15 also had 50 years of development in it's time. If that kind of attention and improvement was made to the Mini 14 as the AR15 did, who knows what kind of fine shooter it would turn out to be.
Click to expand...
Exactly. They were more or less equivalents of each other in practical terms in the 70's and 80's. Not much happened until AWB elevated AR15 from well-known design to cult status and variation after variation started flooding out. Probably because so many people wanted stick it up to the man by buying a rifle that was built to circumvent AWB and pre-ban rifles started fetching incredible prices. And why not, it's a great design.

At the same time Ruger was still churning out 180-series Minis, more or less unchanged since 1973. It wasn't until 2007 when Ruger even came across the idea of increasing the diameter of the barrel, which is heavily clamped by the gas block that's battered by the overgassed and unbuffered piston assy. The current 583-series Minis are very nice and capable of kicking my old "good" A2 HBAR's butt out of the box.

As you said, an old 180-series mini with a simple rebarreling job is an easy way to build a 1"/100yd shooter. Shilen is great BFTB and the next steps up, Accuracy Systems' .750" and .850" barrel & gas block combos, have very conservative 1-1½MOA guarantees w/ factory ammo and in practise they've proven to be fantastic tack-drivers. The original idea of a lightweight, quick-handling carbine will be lost, of course, but the resulting hernia doesn't differ from what you get by lugging a bull barrel AR around.
 
@Kame B. Maybe someday, I'll pick up a Mini-14 and turn it into a MOA shooter. It would be nice if they started just selling the actions. I've seen how mini's shoot and I would say you've improved quite a bit on stock. Keep us updated if you get that trigger worked on. The gas system on the mini's is so harsh, I remember the early mini's claiming quite a few cheaper scopes back in the day, knocking reticles loose.
 
I have a stock Mini-14. My father has a stock Mini-14. I have a S&W M&P-15 Sport II. My sons have Sport IIs as well. My sons and my wife all learned to shoot center-fire on my father's Mini-14. Amongst the five of us, only my youngest son can exploit the differences in potential accuracy between the Ruger and the Sport II.

If I had a Mini-14 (and I do) then I would certainly not get rid of it in preference to an AR on the grounds of a marginal difference in accuracy (and as a matter of fact, I haven't). The Mini-14 I've owned and shot since 1979 is what I am comfortable with, what I am familiar with and is the rifle I know best. Whatever its flaws, it is still the rifle I will pick up first when the dog starts barking (or my Turkish Van starts running towards a threat).
 
I really like the idea of a mini 14 but unfortunately they've gotten quite expensive and the three examples I've shot were all worse than my high point 9mm carbine. If I had an AR that shot as bad as my brothers mini did I would throw it in the lake. I would like to get ahold of one that shoots good someday but nobody is lining up to sell me the good shooting ones.
 
someguy2800 said:
I would like to get ahold of one that shoots good someday but nobody is lining up to sell me the good shooting ones.
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The ones on the second hand market are often lemons that the owner has never bothered to fix. That, combined to mediocre 70's accuracy and production variations hasn't helped the reputation or common beliefs at all. My Mini 30 was downright bad when I got it and fairly simple free mods made it a very decent shooter. I thought about rebarreling at first but the current 1½" average with commercial ammo at 110yd from the bench is way better than I can achieve offhand or from shooting sticks. With no weight penalty of a heavier barrel.

Another driven whitetail, roe deer and fallow deer hunt is scheduled for next week, I won't even need to think twice which rifle I'll bring. :)
 
hq said:
I thought about rebarreling at first but the current 1½" average with commercial ammo at 110yd from the bench is way better than I can achieve offhand or from shooting sticks. With no weight penalty of a heavier barrel.
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I would be delighted with that result. I may have to see what I can do with one if I find the right deal.
 
LEO's where I worked were issued mini's in the 1990's. These were scoped with what I believe were either 2.5X or 4X Leupold scopes. Targets were shot and records were kept. Groups were close to 1" at 50 yds which would be about 2" at 100 yds.
Subsequently they were issued Bushmasters with collapsible stocks.
 
Coming from someone who owns 10 AR's of various configurations and platforms and enjoys shooting them, I can say I've never once had the thought, "this thing feels like plastic toy" when handling a Ranch Rifle (which I also own). I was turned off by the whole plastic/aluminum thing even as a private in the army. It's just a matter of perception I'm sure, but the Mini-14's wood/steel architecture evokes strength and longevity. And I don't give a couldn't care less if it's only a 2-3 MOA rifle. And when you're suffering from flattop fatigue, it's nice to change up to the Ranch Rifle. Everyone always mentions accuracy as the main issue. My gripe was always how much it beat up brass and how far it always flung them. The thing I like about the AR isn't the accuracy as much as it is how modular and tunable it is. I get get brass to drop just two feet away without altering my loads. I can switch out uppers. It's easy to build one, etc. It's a great rifle for folks who like DIY projects.
 
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CLP said:
Everyone always mentions accuracy as the main issue. My gripe was always how much it beat up brass and how far it always flung them. The thing I like about the AR isn't the accuracy as much as it is how modular and tunable it is. I get get brass to drop just two feet away without altering my loads.
Click to expand...

When I changed out the gas bushing, and recoil spring there was a considerable difference in the way my Mini 14 throws brass. They go about a few feet away at my 2oclock when fired off, and the brass is unscathed. You can see the soft ejections in the first 4 shots I took in the video at the 2:20mark.
 
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I get a big laugh out of the guys that will buy new uppers, put in expensive trigger groups and all the other mods they can do to their ARs and then complain that a Mini will not shoot without a bunch of work done to it. And then they let it be known that their experience is based on a gun they owned 20+ years ago.

Try one of the newer 580 or later series of guns and then report what you learned. I have a 580 series with the tapered barrel that with open sights will shoot cheap bulk steel cased ammo in the 2” range with open sights and my 60 year old eyes. To be fair I. Had cataract surgery and now have the best long range vision I have had since I was a kid.

I did install a smaller gas bushing but out of the box it only threw brass 8-10 feet from the rifle. I added a buffer and the cycling is nothing like the old Mini my bud had years ago. Ruger has made improvements to the gun. They are worth giving a try. You don’t like like it it should be no problem getting your money back.

Of course I know the AR fan boys already have their minds made up and have no intentions of trying anything else but for those trying to decide between the two and prefer the look and feel of the Mini I say go for it.
 
I was trained on, qualified expert with, and duty carried both. I'll take the Mini-14 every time. Simple, simple, simple. For someone who was trained on and has only shot AR's, they probably feel the same way about AR's.

Ain't it great we can have both?!?
 
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