1911 Keyholing Issues (.45)

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I ran into this yeas ago when shooing at a indoor range. I started printing my own targets and was getting the tears. I tried a lot of different weight papers before I found one that did good. If I recall it was > 34#. I also found out a lot had to do with the humidity. Try some heavy weight poster board if you want to confirm. A true WC will produce a cleaner hole than the SWC. Some of the SWC have a simi rounded nose and not flat.
 
You guys are awesome, thanks for all of the information/advice. Like I said, these look MUCH better than the holes I was getting last week, so I do feel better.

Unfortunately, I lost the cardboard backer to the floor of the range, so I am unable to get any pics.

I am not going to worry about this too much at this point, but will try again at some point with better cardboard and use some of my sticky targets.

Then I am just going to go back to steel and USPSA style targets and forget about it!!!

Thanks again!
 
If you look at the torn holes, you will see a round dark circle that is a mark left by the bullet. Not keyholing, IMHO.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
The OP said he's using coated and plated bullets. I can't see the barrel leading using those bullets.

Before we waste any more bandwidth let's wait for a report from the OP when he shoots a more solid backer.
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LOL!

Mind if I borrow that line??

I am amazed that this thread has not morphed into a foot pounds of energy thread and the variables involved in the swing or "give" factor of a linear piece of paper, relative the said thickness of material and breeze variables

Is it a small bullet going fast or a big bullet going slow with what bullet shape and velocity, how does this influence the circumference of the hole?

Is there an APP for this?

:):)
 
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f you look at the torn holes, you will see a round dark circle that is a mark left by the bullet. Not keyholing, IMHO.
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I agree, "grease ring" on a couple of the holes looks fine.
 
Those look like normal holes. I'd expect a 9mm to make cleaner holes with fewer of those little tears only because the pill is moving faster. A .45 slug lumbers downrange and delivers its energy more casually.
 
Key holing I have seen will give you a perfect side profile of the bullet without anything resembling a proper round bullet hole.

The pic of your target doesn't look like you have any key holing. You can see several bullet holes that are mostly the paper punch round hole type left by the SWC bullets with a strip of paper torn from it at one side. If you turn your target over and lay those strips so they could be taped back in place the repair would show the bullet hole was properly round. The torn paper strips starting from the bullet hole is from a relatively thin paper target material hung loose or that was not stapled or taped tight against backer allowing the unsupported paper to tear.
 
Yep, I agree that things are fine. Putting the cardboard backer behind the paper made a big difference. The target from the week before was a shredded mess when the paper was hanging loosely (wish I would have thought to take a picture). When I compared those ".45 shreds" to the nice tight holes I was getting from my .40 in the area right next to the .45 "holes" I sort of freaked out.

I get it now. Speed and bullet size, but at the time, I was focusing on the .40 load development, and only brought my .45 along on a whim. I saw the shreds, registered that something was up, but did not have time to really think about it until later this week when I started this thread.

Thanks again for all of the help... I was beginning to think my 1911 was needing some love.
 
I think you should change your bullet to a SWC or WC with a different target. That will solve your problem.
 
Blue68f100 said:
Have you checked the barrel for leading, since you shot some LSWC. Once you lead a barrel, key holing and accuracy goes out the window. And it does not take very many poor fitted lead bullets to lead a barrel.
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That's what I would suggest. Get some vacuum line caps at an auto parts store, strip the gun, and plug the breech. Pour a 50-50 mixture of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide into the barrel. If you've got leading, you'll see a grey sludge form on the surface. Pour it down the drain, dry and oil the barrel and your problems should be over.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
Pour a 50-50 mixture of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide into the barrel. If you've got leading, you'll see a grey sludge form on the surface.
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Wow I'm curious about the chemistry. What's going on here? You've got metallic lead in contact with a highly reactive oxidizer in a low pH aqueous environment. Then what?

Also, people have been dealing with excessive leading for a hundred years and more. It can't be this simple, can it?
 
Col. Harrumph said:
Vern Humphrey said:
Pour a 50-50 mixture of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide into the barrel. If you've got leading, you'll see a grey sludge form on the surface. Pour it down the drain
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Wow I'm curious about the chemistry. What's going on here? You've got metallic lead in contact with a highly reactive oxidizer in a low pH aqueous environment. Then what?
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Resulting solution is toxic lead acetate.

Make sure you have VERY GOOD VENTILATION and DO NOT inhale the fumes!

I would wear gloves to protect skin and dispose solution properly. Rinse with water mixed with baking soda to neutralize any remaining acid on the barrel surface.

The 50/50 solution will remove bluing on contact and should only be used on stainless steel barrels. It's also known to pit barrels - http://www.texas-mac.com/Warning_Hydrogen_Peroxide_and_Vinegar_Will_Etch_Bores.html
 
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Now that is cool. Searching on it, the reaction apparently goes faster in hot water (of course). And the acetate is water soluble so will rinse away. Why have I never heard of this before?

Wikipedia sez:
"An aqueous solution of lead(II) acetate is the byproduct of the 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar used in the cleaning and maintenance of stainless steel firearm suppressors (silencers) and compensators. The solution is agitated by the bubbling action of the hydrogen peroxide, and the main reaction is the dissolution of lead deposits within the suppressor by the acetic acid, which forms lead acetate. Because of its high toxicity, this chemical solution must be appropriately disposed by a chemical processing facility or hazardous materials centre. Alternatively, the solution may be reacted with sulfuric acid to precipitate nearly insoluble lead(II) sulfate. The solid may then be removed by mechanical filtration and is safer to dispose of than aqueous lead acetate."
Click to expand...

So don't dump this stuff down the drain. Maybe that's why it isn't mentioned when discussing leading removal.
 
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