Absolutely No Live Ammunition In The Training Area.

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I spoke to the head trainer this morning. In addition to addressing the problem I out lined a solution (clearing barrel in the security office and all ammunition is stored there.).

He agreed there was a problem and said that he would address it. We shall see

Presenting a problem coupled with a solution was a good approach. Assigning someone with ultimate authority, and a safety officer is a good idea. Safety officer would be given the authority make sure safety rules like no live ammunition were cordially but firmly enforced. The safety officer would also to bar armed visitors to the training area, and invite them into the training area, without ammo. Another responsibility of the safety officer is to make sure everyone reloads, and goes "street live" properly and safely, when leaving the training area. Encouraging words such as, "Good job" and "that's the way", go a long way in assuring voluntary safety compliance.
 
So, these sessions are reliably secret and there is no way that anyone other than the 10-15 unloaded-guns-participants can possibly know of the meeting being held? :scrutiny:

They don't advertise them on TV. I understand your point but this isn't broadcast we don't show up in uniforms all your average person is going to see is people showing up for church on an off night
 
No one is "Smuggling" ammunition into class. They're showing up with their loaded carry weapons and unloading in class

So if your group has a rule about no live ammo in a training area, and it is being brought in. That is smuggling to a degree. But splitting hairs is for another time. I would certainly feel unsafe around amateurs who "unload" firearms under their own authority. My suggestion still holds merit, check everyone as they come in. Your group could go the extra mile and get chamber flags of some type to show weapons are empty after they are checked.
 
I would certainly feel unsafe around amateurs who "unload" firearms under their own authority. My suggestion still holds merit, check everyone as they come in. Your group could go the extra mile and get chamber flags of some type to show weapons are empty after they are checked.

Chamber flags wouldn't work for dry fire but in general I agree with you. The trainer requires 2 people (one of them him) to verify that each gun is unloaded. My problem is that there shouldn't be ANY ammunition in that room period. I don't care if it's in a tape sealed box locked in a safe. Not. One. Round.
 
Sounds like a simple demarcation issue. The table should be outside the room, not inside. Not a big deal, a ten foot difference maybe.... But it's that imaginary line, in this case the doorway, that cannot be crossed. Period.
 
Chamber flags wouldn't work for dry fire but in general I agree with you.

Why not? There are chamber plugs and flags that allow you to still practice dry firing, while showing a *clear* weapon at all times. This was one I found rather quickly.

https://bloksafety.com/p/barrelblok

Personally I like using a chamber flag or something like it to make a real firearm safe compared to using a blue or fake training gun. In classes I taught, the more hands on experience I could get a student with a firearm the more confident they became handling one.
 
Having seen the training schedule (page 2) I wouldn't do this in a classroom. Classrooms are for talking, listening, writing.

I would—and do—go to the range for manipulation. Yes, that can be a pain, but it reinforces a lot of the Safety Rules that we don't whip out guns to handle them in random rooms. See sand bucket discussions. Loading a gun at home is in the basement, pointed into a corner, so it isn't going anywhere.

Airsoft, as brought up above, is another good idea if you need to have these sessions regularly. Since many of them work broadly correctly (magazine, slide...) you could do most of the exercises off those. In a range, still, but an "airsoft range" (establish one somewhere) and wearing eyepro.
 
Might be worth buying a screw box/organizer like this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-16-1-2-in-8-Bin-Deep-Pro-Organizer-Black-218401/203329198

Put it outside the door and each person gets assigned a bin to put ammo in. I know some folks wouldn't like it but I would make them unload magazines. With so many guns having magazine safeties these days I wouldn't be happy with loaded mags laying around to get mixed up. All live ammo goes in the box, and the box stays closed outside of the room until training is over.
 
Might be worth buying a screw box/organizer like this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-16-1-2-in-8-Bin-Deep-Pro-Organizer-Black-218401/203329198

Put it outside the door and each person gets assigned a bin to put ammo in. I know some folks wouldn't like it but I would make them unload magazines. With so many guns having magazine safeties these days I wouldn't be happy with loaded mags laying around to get mixed up. All live ammo goes in the box, and the box stays closed outside of the room until training is over.
I don't see a reason to unload magazines as long as the magazines aren't brought into the training room. If participants will need extra magazines for the training, for example to become faster at changing out the magazine, make them bring empty ones and those have to be checked before entering the room at the same time the guns are checked.
 
I agree with the suggestion to just make a safe unloading area outside the training room.

"Anything remotely resembling FoF they use a blue gun for."

...still in a room full of live weapons and ammo...:uhoh:
 
Having spent a few years working with SF guys, any self proclaimed SF guy who has no regard for safety rules during training would be an immediate red flag. Of all of the groups I have worked with SF was absolutely without a doubt the most safety conscious, rules were absolute and violations were taken very seriously there were no exceptions.
 
I guess my question is how do I get that point across to the people who are in charge of the training? I'm positive it's only a matter of time before somebody is going to have a negligent discharge either loading or unloading weapon or not properly unloading a weapon before they start the dry practice.

I don’t know exactly, maybe a “Absolutely No Ammunition” sign on the door of the church reminding folks and another on the Door to the room they are going to enter.

Better yet require all firearms entering to have a supplied chamber flag installed.
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/pro...MI1rSbnau42QIVheDICh0TwgP3EAkYByABEgJc0vD_BwE

In shooting sports a triple redundant safety protocol exists. How it works is the person with the firearm is asked to unload and show clear.

Step 1 is they unload the firearm, look into the chamber themselves to make sure it’s unloaded.

Step 2 they show the RO that the chamber is unloaded.

Step 3 is they lower the slide and pull the trigger, while pointing the firearm at the berm.

Over the years, I can’t remember how many times I have seen an “unloaded” firearm go off on step 3. Enough times it’s completely ridiculous but validates the step each and every time.

A chamber flag wouldn’t be able to be installed if a round remained in the chamber.
 
Your Special Forces Member should at least get a medal or pretty ribbon for being the best "bad example" of the year.
 
Having spent a few years working with SF guys, any self proclaimed SF guy who has no regard for safety rules during training would be an immediate red flag. Of all of the groups I have worked with SF was absolutely without a doubt the most safety conscious, rules were absolute and violations were taken very seriously there were no exceptions.

That has been my experience also. You can be assigned to an SF unit but not be SF qualified. Ash and trash work(mechanics, cooks, supply personnel, clerks, truck drivers, etc), are done by non SF support personnel. Same as a soldier can be assigned to the 82nd or 101st ABN and not be airborne qualified. There are far too many people claiming to be SEALS, Marine force recon, and whatever but never served any time in the military. If this guy was truly SF with his attitude towards safety, I can bet he was really appreciated by his fellow SF members.
 
That has been my experience also. You can be assigned to an SF unit but not be SF qualified. Ash and trash work(mechanics, cooks, supply personnel, clerks, truck drivers, etc), are done by non SF support personnel. Same as a soldier can be assigned to the 82nd or 101st ABN and not be airborne qualified. There are far too many people claiming to be SEALS, Marine force recon, and whatever but never served any time in the military. If this guy was truly SF with his attitude towards safety, I can bet he was really appreciated by his fellow SF members.

I know the guy. He is SF qualified and assigned to 10th group. I respect his knowledge of Scripture and his adherence to Christian principles and doctrine. It's just this one area that I totally disagree with him on.
 
Once a quarter my church does firearms training for the security team. The training is always split into two parts. One part is strictly dry practice and the next day we go to the range.

Every time they do a training session they send out the same email. Date, time, place, what to bring.

Every time they send out the email it says the same thing for the dry session "Absolutely no live ammunition in the training area" and every time out of 10 or 15 people that show up about 12 of them walk into that training room with a loaded gun.

I've mentioned it to the head trainer and he tells me that he agrees with me that if the email says no live ammunition then nobody should be entering that room with a loaded weapon but he doesn't enforce it.


During one of the training sessions he asked if anybody had any safety concerns and I called the whole room on it. One of the guys got all bent out of shape and told me it's real world training and you need to learn to know the status of your weapon. I do know the status of my weapon I unload in the car before I walk into the building because I've been told no live ammunition in the training area.

I really don't have a question to ask here, I'm absolutely convinced I'm correct that number one there should not be any live ammunition in that room when they're doing designated dry practice. Number two if they're going to put that in the email they need to enforce it.

I guess my question is how do I get that point across to the people who are in charge of the training? I'm positive it's only a matter of time before somebody is going to have a negligent discharge either loading or unloading weapon or not properly unloading a weapon before they start the dry practice.

Enforce the no-ammo rule.

You can simply have the instructors check each person as they enter to ensure that their weapon is unloaded.
 
I know the guy. He is SF qualified and assigned to 10th group. I respect his knowledge of Scripture and his adherence to Christian principles and doctrine. It's just this one area that I totally disagree with him on.
Being assigned to the group does not equal being SF, I was assigned to Naval Special Warfare Group One along with Seal Teams 1 and 5 but was not a Seal....
 
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