It's time. Let's fix this, starting with schools...

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Ru4real

Ru4real

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The problem is "we the people" now believe the government is here to protects us. What a scam politicians have going; take tax dollars to get paid with no need to succeed; they simply say problems are "difficult to solve" and "we the people" buy the excuses.

End all taxation associated with schools at the federal, state and local levels. Recent events show this is where we MUST start.

Schools as businesses will improve our schools by ensuring graduates would be good and knowledgeable "citizens of we the people" and business would have do it safely to our satisfaction. If not, we simply take our money set aside for schooling our kids to a better school.

Guaranteed this will solve school shootings in 20 years from when we start. Then we focus on care for our elders - social security, etc.

We MUST change the narrative. Will you help? Here is the new narrative: School shootings are an example of failed government.
 
Ru4real said:
We MUST change the narrative. Will you help? Here is the new narrative: School shootings are an example of failed government.
Click to expand...

I won’t go into all of the problems with for profit education. But I agree with your last statement. I would edit it though to say:

School shootings are another example of failed government.
 
Yes, lets cover these specific issues by raising taxes and make a gun and ammo purchase fee to help with implementation of costs associated with protecting our kids so they can grow up and become contributing members of our society. I would not mind paying little extra to see that happen.
 
PabloJ said:
Yes, lets cover these specific issues by raising taxes and make a gun and ammo purchase fee to help with implementation of costs associated with protecting our kids so they can grow up and become contributing members of our society. I would not mind paying little extra to see that happen.
Click to expand...
You can't be serious
 
Less big brother control and more local control and the schools would be a safer and smarter place for our children. THEN I would be more open to spending all that percentage of my taxes in the local school. When we are dead and gone the "Great Society" LBJ envisioned will allow the USA to implode on itself. I fear for the future children.:(
 
Ru4real said:
School shootings are an example of failed government.
Click to expand...

No they are not. They are a sign of a failed society......just like our government is.

Schools as a business? Why then do private schools accept public school vouchers? Making all schools private will create a class system where the wealthy kids go to nice schools with many opportunities/activities and poor kids go to cheap schools with fewer opportunities. High Schools would then be able to give athletic scholarships to improve their football/basketball teams.

The problem with school shootings is not the schools. Taxation to fund schools is not creating nor promoting school shootings. Part of the problem is the lack of funding to increase security measures at many schools. Funny how the wealthy will pay more to send their kid to a high class private school, but whine when they are asked to pay more in taxes to secure the safety of their kids while at public schools. Makes little or no sense to me. Lots of hairbrain ideas floating around the internet as everyone and their brother has a "quick and easy fix" to school shootings. Sorry, but there are no quick and easy fixes here. It will take time, money and effort to lessen the threat, but even that will not stop it. Schools need to be fixed, but it will only come when some of those with all the suggestions do more research into what public schools really do for our kids.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
I won’t go into all of the problems with for profit education. But I agree with your last statement. I would edit it though to say:

School shootings are another example of failed government.
Click to expand...

Thank you for correcting. I too believe ending public education would create new problems, but these would be problems business would be forced to solve, or they dry up.
 
buck460XVR said:
No they are not. They are a sign of a failed society......just like our government is.

Schools as a business? ...
Click to expand...

You've been drinking govt koolaid so long you don't even know it's in your mouth anymore. We all have since FDR, so it's certainly no single persons fault. Change the narrative from "guns" to "failed govt". You can help brother.
 
drunkenpoacher said:
You can't be serious
Click to expand...

Yes, paying into making our schools safer
Ru4real said:
Thank you for correcting. I too believe ending public education would create new problems, but these would be problems business would be forced to solve, or they dry up.
Click to expand...

It would be a throwback to the feudal system of the Dark Ages where wealthy landed gentry plus ruling court along with religious leaders knew how to read and write and the rest got the proverbial shovel or was it a hoe?
 
We don't like over-reactions from the left about gun control in the wake of a mass-murder. We should be just a leery of over-reaction from the right about "big government" or any other conspiracy-theory-inspired recriminations or solutions.

If we can't have a rational discussion, a rational discussion will not happen and a rational solution will not be reached.
 
They keep saying if you see something say something. Well we saw something and said something yet the government did nothing. And now 17 more people are dead. Its not good enough to say we are doing are best, you have to succeed at this because nothing else matters.

And I don't mean spending money on building mental hospitals just take his guns away and update your data base so he can't get another.
 
PabloJ said:
Yes, paying into making our schools safer
Click to expand...
If you sincerely think that is the answer why wait on the government? Lead by example.
You can start today buy sending a portion of your income to the local school. Have your bank set up auto withdrawals monthly.
 
Ru4real wrote:
The problem is "we the people" now believe the government is here to protects us.
Click to expand...

Well, beyond the fact that the Constitution itself says that the purpose of the government it is creating is to "...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, [and] promote the general Welfare...", which terms collectively clearly describe a role for the Federal Government in protecting the citizenry, I'm not sure I - or the majority of the population - agree with your premise.
 
First, as I have mentioned in the past I am a teacher. With that out of the way, there are two different issues being raised. How can we increase security in our schools, and does the current model provide cost effective and quality education.

Increasing security in our schools. Due to the training that the teachers and students have received, the number of casualties in the Rancho Tehama incident were minimized. Certainly, no casualties is the goal; however, reduced casualties is a step in the right direction. I have been looking at the teacher and administrator firearms training provided by the Buckeye Firearms Foundation called Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response (F.A.S.T.E.R.). I do not have enough information about this program, at this time, to make any recommendations.

There does need to be a nationally recognized program for certifying teachers and administrators with firearms. This is largely due to the insurance carriers unwillingness to cover districts that allow teachers to make their own decisions about firearms, in states where this is allowed by law. I would like to see the schools policies change from Kansas's, "district may allow," to Utah's, "district may not forbid." However, I do recognize that some states have even further to go.

As far as the discussion of whether the current model provides cost effective and quality education, it isn't simple. The big answer is, given all of the expectations placed on American publicly funded schools, they do pretty well. I am not going to go very far into this one because it steers us from this boards core interest, firearms, into politics and non-firearm policies; however, I do recommend Diane Rivatch's book Reign of Error. It is well researched and somewhat enlightening.
 
drunkenpoacher wrote:
You can start today buy sending a portion of your income to the local school.
Click to expand...

Depending on the jurisdiction, the school itself may not be able to accept designated funds (since it has to spend the funds consistent with the designation), but there are extra-governmental school organizations like the PTA and similar booster clubs that could accept designated funds. My point is that it may not be as simple as writing a check, but there are ways to get it done.
 
Ru4real wrote:
You've been drinking govt koolaid so long you don't even know it's in your mouth anymore.
Click to expand...

Well, the same dismissive statement could be made about you. You've been drinking the anti-government kool-aid for so long you no longer realize what palava you are parroting either.
 
Ru4real wrote:
You can help brother.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know I can.

I'm afraid, however, that someone who dismisses any perspective that doesn't agree with his agenda with a metaphor to the Jonestown suicide/massacre may not, in the long run, be able to help find a solution that will demand compromise and concession from all parties involved.
 
Hasaf said:
First, as I have mentioned in the past I am a teacher. With that out of the way, there are two different issues being raised. How can we increase security in our schools, and does the current model provide cost effective and quality education.

Increasing security in our schools. Due to the training that the teachers and students have received, the number of casualties in the Rancho Tehama incident were minimized. Certainly, no casualties is the goal; however, reduced casualties is a step in the right direction. I have been looking at the teacher and administrator firearms training provided by the Buckeye Firearms Foundation called Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response (F.A.S.T.E.R.). I do not have enough information about this program, at this time, to make any recommendations.

There does need to be a nationally recognized program for certifying teachers and administrators with firearms. This is largely due to the insurance carriers unwillingness to cover districts that allow teachers to make their own decisions about firearms, in states where this is allowed by law. I would like to see the schools policies change from Kansas's, "district may allow," to Utah's, "district may not forbid." However, I do recognize that some states have even further to go.

As far as the discussion of whether the current model provides cost effective and quality education, it isn't simple. The big answer is, given all of the expectations placed on American publicly funded schools, they do pretty well. I am not going to go very far into this one because it steers us from this boards core interest, firearms, into politics and non-firearm policies; however, I do recommend Diane Rivatch's book Reign of Error. It is well researched and somewhat enlightening.
Click to expand...

This kid did not want to die. Arm and train teachers so when this happens again there is armed resistence already at the school and ready to go. If the kid knew he would probably be killed trying something like this he may rethink his plan. Agreed, some want to go down in a blaze of glory, with armed teachers I would like to think we would at least minimize the loss of life.
 
In the thirty-odd schools that I have attended and the four where I have taught, I never noticed any major difference in educational opportunity based on funding. The only opportunity advantages came from the philosophies of the teachers, administrators, school boards, parents, and the students themselves.

This includes schools located in inner-city Los Angeles, rural Alabama, and tribal schools in the Siskiyous of Northern California.
If the kids feel supported, protected and challenged then they will make their own opportunities.
 
PabloJ said:
Yes, lets cover these specific issues by raising taxes and make a gun and ammo purchase fee to help with implementation of costs associated with protecting our kids so they can grow up and become contributing members of our society. I would not mind paying little extra to see that happen.
Click to expand...

Several states impose extra fees associated woth firearms that are supposed to go to related public safety.

Come back with info showing that it has had a measurable impact in those states and you might be taken seriously.
 
As I mentioned in another thread, how can we expect to afford to train and arm teachers when many school districts can't even adequately fund classroom supplies or provide working heaters? Seems to me a better solution is figuring out why these events are happening and intervening before they happen, rather than spending money arming teachers.

50 years ago we didn't need to arm teachers. While I'm a vehement supporter of the 2nd amendment, I don't think arming our teachers is ultimately where our focus and funds need to be directed. Figuring out the social and mental health issues that have arisen over the decades is a good place to start.
 
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