One of the dogs we rescued was a "cuddle loving" pit bull; he was a sweetie. He was not in great shape but was not near death like the others. It always broke my heart to see any of these little guys die from neglect; which most do.
Feral dogs?
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Mr. Standfast
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I used to work in a Saudi Arabian university complex, rather like the product of an unfortunate union between the Starship Enterprise and an airline terminal, miles from anywhere in the desert. There was a pack of wild dogs which lived around the canteen dumpster, which probably hadn't been owned by anybody for hundreds of generations. An admixture of saluki was pretty obvious, and probably also of the Arabian wolf, a scrawny little beast by Alaskan standard although it is the same species. I didn't tell anybody about that, in case of provoking an extermination project.
I passed the time of day with them, and they regarded me as their special friend. They had a pretty good living from scraps, and didn't need my outdated frankfurters, but it was the principle, for being talked to was what they really liked. They were extremely mannerly dogs, taking food gently with no tendency to grab, and if one tried for the other's share, a pointed finger must have tapped in on some unknown body language which inspired shame. I wish my Irish terrier, Lanty Hanlon, had learned that as fast, or been less inclined to pestering. Only the puppies would grab fingers and all, with their little needle teeth, and fought among themselves for food. Adult dogs need social order, but puppies need biomass.
An old school friend of mine in Oman adopted a ¾ grown wild dog which took to appearing in his garden on the edge of the mountains, a dog which would have any Australian saying "dingo". She made a serious job of becoming a model house dog in all respects, and recently expired at the age of fourteen, in retirement in Spain. She wasn't in the least slinking or cowardly, like I have seen pi-dogs in India. His Omani landlord loved her, but was amazed. He had always been prepared to believe there is such a thing as a good dog, but he thought you had to buy them from an expensive breeder or importer.
Once a graduation was held up by the traditional administrative confusion of old Araby, and we had to wait outside for some time. The Saudis laughed themselves sick to see fourteen puppies bouncing around one American and myself, and nobody else. But I later found one or two students talking to dogs, in English for they doubted whether they understood Arabic.
.Of course dangerous feral dogs have to take the fall. The British system isn't bad. A dog identified as harming livestock can be killed at any time, but if they aren't caught in the act you can publish a local newspaper ad saying that dogs found on your land will be shot, and then do it without proving a thing. The cat is in an odd legal position. It isn't protected as livestock are, if a dog attacks it, and a human attacker is only responsible if he inflicts suffering on it. Equally there are two ways you aren't liable for a cat's misdeeds. You aren't liable in the way you would for an animal that should be controllable, like a dog, and you aren't liable the way you would be for letting your pet leopard out loose. In law cats don't really exist very much.
A lot of dog problems, though, are with pets from a short distance away, that have got into bad company for a few hours or overnight. The first line of defence to try is talking to them, perhaps feeding them a little, but not enough to keep them coming. back. To a dog, sharing food is a symbolic act. Very often they will remember proper pet standards if you treat them that way. It may not work, but it is the first thing to try.
I passed the time of day with them, and they regarded me as their special friend. They had a pretty good living from scraps, and didn't need my outdated frankfurters, but it was the principle, for being talked to was what they really liked. They were extremely mannerly dogs, taking food gently with no tendency to grab, and if one tried for the other's share, a pointed finger must have tapped in on some unknown body language which inspired shame. I wish my Irish terrier, Lanty Hanlon, had learned that as fast, or been less inclined to pestering. Only the puppies would grab fingers and all, with their little needle teeth, and fought among themselves for food. Adult dogs need social order, but puppies need biomass.
An old school friend of mine in Oman adopted a ¾ grown wild dog which took to appearing in his garden on the edge of the mountains, a dog which would have any Australian saying "dingo". She made a serious job of becoming a model house dog in all respects, and recently expired at the age of fourteen, in retirement in Spain. She wasn't in the least slinking or cowardly, like I have seen pi-dogs in India. His Omani landlord loved her, but was amazed. He had always been prepared to believe there is such a thing as a good dog, but he thought you had to buy them from an expensive breeder or importer.
Once a graduation was held up by the traditional administrative confusion of old Araby, and we had to wait outside for some time. The Saudis laughed themselves sick to see fourteen puppies bouncing around one American and myself, and nobody else. But I later found one or two students talking to dogs, in English for they doubted whether they understood Arabic.
.Of course dangerous feral dogs have to take the fall. The British system isn't bad. A dog identified as harming livestock can be killed at any time, but if they aren't caught in the act you can publish a local newspaper ad saying that dogs found on your land will be shot, and then do it without proving a thing. The cat is in an odd legal position. It isn't protected as livestock are, if a dog attacks it, and a human attacker is only responsible if he inflicts suffering on it. Equally there are two ways you aren't liable for a cat's misdeeds. You aren't liable in the way you would for an animal that should be controllable, like a dog, and you aren't liable the way you would be for letting your pet leopard out loose. In law cats don't really exist very much.
A lot of dog problems, though, are with pets from a short distance away, that have got into bad company for a few hours or overnight. The first line of defence to try is talking to them, perhaps feeding them a little, but not enough to keep them coming. back. To a dog, sharing food is a symbolic act. Very often they will remember proper pet standards if you treat them that way. It may not work, but it is the first thing to try.
MCgunner
Member
Mice keep coming in the house and the inside kitties take care of 'em, after torturing 'em for hours. This morning, one of 'em was chasing a mouse, got in a kitty bed and I could see its tail in the crease of the bed and stomped it. The cat was so disappointed. LOL
One day I came into the mud room to find a cottonmouth half way into the hall. The noise scared it back under the mud room closet where the AC unit is. It had crawled up through the hole in the floor where the wiring and freon lines pass, no doubt, chasing a mouse. I plugged that door off with a towel at the bottom. Couple of days later I heard a snake in that closet and a mouse squeaking. So, I guess you could say, I have reptilian rodent protection. Haven't heard from 'em since, though. I woulda shot that snake, but I didn't want a .38 caliber hole in the floor and I couldn't get my .22 caliber mini revolver out of my off side pocket fast enough into action. I've killed a lot of snakes and other vermin with that little NAA mini revolver. It's pretty accurate for what it is and only leaves a .22 caliber hole.
Husker Hunter
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Had a problem with a pack of semi-feral dogs a couple years ago. A family that lived down the county road from our place used to always buy/adopt/find some mean and nasty looking pit bull/boxer type dogs and let them run free. Usually had 3-5 dogs at a time. It wasn't uncommon to see them chasing deer or roaming the creekbanks up to 2-3 miles from their "home". Usually we would just give a warning shot or chase them off because shooting one just meant they would get 2 more dogs. A couple years ago I had a run in with the pack, only took a few rounds of .22lr into the ground between me and them and they took off, however, I wish I had killed them all. The dogs attacked another neighbors 14 year old boy while he was out running a few weeks after that. The kid spent a few nights in the hospital and still has scars on his face from the incident. Sheriffs department and some other neighbors got all the dogs taken care of before dark that day and the family that owned them was evicted a few months later.
Nature Boy
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That wouldn't be Copperhead Road, would it?
I know a guy that took a pack of weenies and injected them with prestone antifreeze and tossed them over the fence. A few days later he found the offending mutts puffed up in his hay meadow.
SoonerMedic
Member
Not a big fan of this personally. It's really a cruel practice to poison animals. I even prefer the quick kill for even mice. Just don't see any sense in making anything suffer longer than necessary.
Only thing I don't mind poisoning is insects and weeds lol.
Nature Boy
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I’m not advocating it so don’t judge me. My acquaintance raised chicken. Once a dog kills a chicken he can’t stop. It must be like meth to a dog’s brain. He lost a lot of chickens before he took the action he did. He worked hard and didn’t have much, including time to waste hunting wild dogs
MCgunner
Member
I'll tell you like I was thinkin' of telling the district court here that sent me a summons. Drive 100 miles to the courthouse in down town Houston. My Lord told me not to judge. Only the Father will judge. I doubt it'll get me out of jury duty, but it sounds good.
SoonerMedic
Member
Not judging at all, just felt like putting in my unsolicited 2 cents is all lol
The little mobile-home community on a lake where my FIL used to live had dogs all over the place. Not a big whoop, as the aggressive ones get lead therapy and the old & sick become coyote droppings. One enterprising person decided to thin the population with poisoned meat and killed nigh on 30 dogs over a couple weekends. Including my FIL's two, neither of which was in any way offensive. Unless you don't like dogs that sniff out and warn when snakes are about.
Was a nasty way to go, by my FIL's account.
I would go have a conversation with the County Sheriff (or whoever is the highest ranking law enforcement official within the jurisdiction). You're not looking for legal advice; you get that from an attorney, not a law enforcement officer. What you are looking for is his/her interpretation of his duties and where he sees as the limits of their discretion.
The county my parents (now just my father) live in is 82 square miles. The Sheriff's office has the Sheriff and two deputies. The county seat has a police force with two officers (they are deputized by the Sheriff, but only answer calls outside of town when absolutely necessary). And there is a State Trooper who splits his time between three counties.
Recognizing that law enforcement is usually 30 to 45 minutes away, the Sheriff told my father that he would NOT face criminal charges dispatching nuisance animals - even if it turned out the dogs actually belonged to someone - but he could not speak for what might happen regarding a civil lawsuit.
The Sheriff exercised his discretion quite well in my book. When three trespassers threatened to shoot at me and my father, but decided to run away when they considered their position, the Sheriff declined to take any action when the trespassers complained. When two teenagers got lost hunting raccoon, my father brandished his rifle and called them to come to the house. Once he saw they were lost teenagers and thus no threat, my mother made them a snack and some hot chocolate and my father drove them home. My father turned himself in the next day for "bandishing" and "false arrest". The Sheriff told him he had already heard from the parents of the boys and they had no complaints, so he didn't see any elements of a crime.
I used to live about 10 miles outside of town in the Mojave Desert. Only about 25 miles outside of Death Valley. People would dump dogs off all the time. Talk about a cruel death for the dogs. No water 120+ temps in the summer months
One time I heard our small dog being attacked on our front porch. It was a large German Shepherd. I ran out the door long enough to stop the fight. There was blood all over. Went back in the house and grabbed my rifle. When I rounded the corner of the house the dog was about 100 yards away. At that point I figured it was over. To my surprise when I started yelling get the "blank" out of here he turned and came running back at full speed. Ended up shooting him at about 25 feet. 300 win mag is effective on large dogs at close range.
One time I heard our small dog being attacked on our front porch. It was a large German Shepherd. I ran out the door long enough to stop the fight. There was blood all over. Went back in the house and grabbed my rifle. When I rounded the corner of the house the dog was about 100 yards away. At that point I figured it was over. To my surprise when I started yelling get the "blank" out of here he turned and came running back at full speed. Ended up shooting him at about 25 feet. 300 win mag is effective on large dogs at close range.
Troublesome to hear so many stories about "feral dogs". I've hunted for 60+ years and have never seen a true feral dog in the woods. By that I mean dogs that live like wild animals with no owners. Most of the stories here are about dogs with idiot owners that let their undisciplined pets roam at will. And that presents a very sticky problem. Do you shoot, bury, and shut up a one poster suggests? Talk to the owner? Complain to authorities? It will depend mostly, I suppose, on the dog's behavior the time. When I was a kid my dad shot one that was eating our chickens, which is entirely appropriate. Around that same time, my dog attacked the paper boy. We didn't shoot him. If I had been an adult at that time, I probably would have destroyed the dog. I've never had to shoot a dog, for which I am grateful. Tough question.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Dogs don't have to be totally wild and feral to be dangerous and destructive. A friend of mine shot a sheep-killing dog on his ranch about three miles from Georgetown, Texas. One of a multi-dog pack. The very good-looking dog had a collar with phone number; had resided at the edge of town.
We had a pack of six or eight dogs around Terlingua, Texas, there in south Brewster County below Alpine. They were seen pulling down a mule deer buck, and were driven off from pulling down a horse. Nobody knew or claimed any of the dogs. They advanced in menacing fashion on one lady who managed to get to her house before any attack opportunity occurred. On one occasion I managed to kill two of them. Some years later we had a few more feral dogs, but they died out from incompetence in hunting.
We had a pack of six or eight dogs around Terlingua, Texas, there in south Brewster County below Alpine. They were seen pulling down a mule deer buck, and were driven off from pulling down a horse. Nobody knew or claimed any of the dogs. They advanced in menacing fashion on one lady who managed to get to her house before any attack opportunity occurred. On one occasion I managed to kill two of them. Some years later we had a few more feral dogs, but they died out from incompetence in hunting.
This.
A couple years back, a pack killed and ate a vagrant woman who was too mentally addled or physically weak to get someplace safe. Yep, ATE.
https://www.inquisitr.com/3073279/wild-pack-of-dogs-in-dallas-eat-woman-like-steak/
http://www.fox4news.com/news/councilman-on-dallas-woman-killed-by-dogs-the-city-is-failing
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/...-next-antoinette-brown-shoot-the-dogs-8286381
What a horror.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Conversations can be a waste of time when dealing with those who don't have the mindset to speak about the issue without emotion. I love Dogs. I have two. Take good care of them. Had a neighbor with a German Shepard. One day I was leaving the house for work and that dog was on my porch and challenged me. Grrrrrrr. I opened the door back up, when inside and retrieved my handy wayclean broom. After a couple of swings and a couple of misses, the dog choose to run for home. I had told that owner many times to keep the dog off my property.
A couple days later I am heading to work and just before I got to the door, I heard a "BOOM". Shotgun blast, and by the sound of it, close by. My neighbor on the other side received the same treatment from the dog. He didn't go for his wayclean broom. He went for the Mossberg.
I went for the broom because I thought the dog was a chicken and was more scared than anything. My trick of yelling and swatting worked. The other neighbor didn't know that and met the problem with force. Who's right? Me of course. I got the result I wanted. So did the neighbor, but removing someone's pet from the earth doesn't always make for good neighbors.
A couple days later I am heading to work and just before I got to the door, I heard a "BOOM". Shotgun blast, and by the sound of it, close by. My neighbor on the other side received the same treatment from the dog. He didn't go for his wayclean broom. He went for the Mossberg.
I went for the broom because I thought the dog was a chicken and was more scared than anything. My trick of yelling and swatting worked. The other neighbor didn't know that and met the problem with force. Who's right? Me of course. I got the result I wanted. So did the neighbor, but removing someone's pet from the earth doesn't always make for good neighbors.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Then there was the time in Alabama when I was working on a horse ranch. A big old hound came running at me in the field full speed. I didn't have a thing to protect myself. So I was attacked by this great big hound. He about licked me to death. He must have been lost, because he was happy to see somebody. Called the owner on the tag and the dawg was my buddy for a few hours. I had originally mistaken the dawg for a feral. If armed I might have shot. Turns out he was just a big oaf hound.
The issue deserves some emotion. Being menaced or attacked by a dog is an emotional event. Getting your dog 86'd because one is an irresponsible owner is, too.
I have a habit of rounding up loose dogs, given my location. They just end up nearby. All are someone's pet. I put them in the fenced yard with food & water and look for contact info. Worst case, I put up flyers. One owner was quite put out that I mis-identified her wuvvy puppy's breed. I wrote "Long Haired Chihuahua" on the flyer. Turns out wittle pwecious was some sort of French breed. Fine. Next time Frenchie goes out with the trash.
Chronically letting one's large & aggressive dog roam out of control also does not make for good neighbors. The owner could have prevented any bad feeling by keeping his property under control. Or had a dog that did not go after neighbors in an aggressive manner.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Good point roo_ster. I was talking about owners more than those on the receiving end. Those that you can't reason with about keeping their dog under control.
Your a good man to take care of frenchie. My son got chased by feral dogs when he was in Afghanistan. He drew his weapon on the dogs and got a "stand down" from the sergeant. Just the thing that might end up on CNN. Shooting a feral dog in a war zone.
Your a good man to take care of frenchie. My son got chased by feral dogs when he was in Afghanistan. He drew his weapon on the dogs and got a "stand down" from the sergeant. Just the thing that might end up on CNN. Shooting a feral dog in a war zone.
farm23
Member
There is a big difference between a feral dog and a loose dog. A feral dog has no fear of man and is worse than a wolf. I live in very rural area and walk /work my bird dogs almost every day. There are a couple of very large Grate Danes that keep expanding their territory and have attacked my dogs. They are not feral, just aggressive and I will not tolerate them attacking my dogs [the owner will not keep them on his property]. I tried spray but it did not have enough range so I put 22 bird shot in my NAA Black Widow and after 2 encounters both dogs decided to stay home when they know we are about. If they were feral I would have used the 44 I also carry.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I've read this entire thread in detail and I'm reminded of an incident when I still lived in Pa. I was in my garage building a dresser and it was hot out so the 16' garage door was open. I was doing a glue up and heard something and turned around and there was something the size of Cujo looking at me. A Rottweiler all sweated up and covered with lather. I just about crapped my pants. I picked up a 2x2 piece of oak that was laying by my saw and he went to full attention. I laid it back down and his ears went back down and the tongue came out.
I didn't know what to do but for some reason when he laid his ears back down and the tongue came out I decided to just go back to what I was doing and watch him out of the corner of my eye. I had no options, my .357 was in the house on the counter. (good place for it right?)
I was praying that day I will tell you. The next thing I know is he ran in the garage and starting checking out my fishing boat. Then he ran between my legs almost knocking me down on the way back out.
I said to him "You just want to play" and he woofed with his front legs apart.
A few seconds later he just moved it up the road. If I would have had my .357 I would have put him down and no court in the land would have contested it from the lather that was all over that dog.
Am I glad I wasn't able to shoot that dog? A week later the owner who had just move to the area and had it run off was called by someone who trapped it in there garage and made friends with it and called the number on the tag. So , yea, I'm glad as to the way it turned out.
Would I shoot the next one that looked like that one, all lathered up and spooky looking? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT. I always considered myself very lucky that day and won't be caught in that situation again. That dog had Rabies written all over him until his ears went down and the tongue came out, but I won't give the next one that much time because not having my 357 on me won't happen again.
I always figured I got away with that one, next time I won't be so lucky.
I didn't know what to do but for some reason when he laid his ears back down and the tongue came out I decided to just go back to what I was doing and watch him out of the corner of my eye. I had no options, my .357 was in the house on the counter. (good place for it right?)
I was praying that day I will tell you. The next thing I know is he ran in the garage and starting checking out my fishing boat. Then he ran between my legs almost knocking me down on the way back out.
I said to him "You just want to play" and he woofed with his front legs apart.
A few seconds later he just moved it up the road. If I would have had my .357 I would have put him down and no court in the land would have contested it from the lather that was all over that dog.
Am I glad I wasn't able to shoot that dog? A week later the owner who had just move to the area and had it run off was called by someone who trapped it in there garage and made friends with it and called the number on the tag. So , yea, I'm glad as to the way it turned out.
Would I shoot the next one that looked like that one, all lathered up and spooky looking? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT. I always considered myself very lucky that day and won't be caught in that situation again. That dog had Rabies written all over him until his ears went down and the tongue came out, but I won't give the next one that much time because not having my 357 on me won't happen again.
I always figured I got away with that one, next time I won't be so lucky.
Goofy rottweilers wanting to go home seems to be a thing. The ones kept as pets around here are so flipping happy to be found by SOMEONE who talks nice to them and gives them a bowl of water while checking their collar for owner information. Just don't leave them alone in the garage with your old jump boots. They have no appreciation for jump boot function, but sure find them tasty.
JeffG
Member
As an officer I had a pair of Rottweilers that the whole neighborhood was afraid of. They would get out on occasion and run up and down the sidewalk scaring everybody. When I got the call, All I had to do was open the back of the squad and say, “you want to go for a ride? Get in the car!” And I’d have two passengers on the way to the police department.
Live traps should work. Put some I would thicken beef blood, juice or gravy with flour and paste it directly on the pan (I used to do this with peanut butter and squirrels). The reason I suggest live traps is you will likely get all sorts of hits and you can decide to free them, let them live, etc.
The Havahart 1081 has a 15" opening and is $76 at Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/Havahart-1081-Professional-One-Door-Trap-Made/dp/B0000AVYXZ
The Duke trap also looks good and is $15 cheaper:
https://smile.amazon.com/Duke-Traps...rd_wg=TqPZf&psc=1&refRID=EB2VNJBPN51N4JGGP5Z7
I wouldn't worry about the opening size as much as the length so their buts are not blocking the door as it closes. If that does happen a lot you might be able to weight the door.
The Havahart 1081 has a 15" opening and is $76 at Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/Havahart-1081-Professional-One-Door-Trap-Made/dp/B0000AVYXZ
The Duke trap also looks good and is $15 cheaper:
https://smile.amazon.com/Duke-Traps...rd_wg=TqPZf&psc=1&refRID=EB2VNJBPN51N4JGGP5Z7
I wouldn't worry about the opening size as much as the length so their buts are not blocking the door as it closes. If that does happen a lot you might be able to weight the door.
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