Hi Power vs CZ p-01 for CCW

dave_the_swede said:

I'm considering making the ultimate Hi power CCW, it would be an alloy frame, detective slide, with possible sfs hammer/trigger. However after considering the cost, and weight/size it sounds a lot like an expensive P-01 except the hi power still wouldn't have a rail. I am considering purchasing a P-01 for my CCW as well. Does anyone have a detective hi power, how does it compare in size to the P-01.

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As much as I love my HiPower, the P-01 is a far better CCW. Aluminum HiPower frames are pretty darn hard to come by too.

A tuned P-01 (or a PCR, if you don't like rails) is likely to be a more satisfying choice, and one for which you'll never have a problem finding parts, is under warranty, etc. The other option might be a CZ P-07 tuned by Cajun Gun Works.)

If you're handy with light gun work yourself, check out Cajun Gun Works for CZ-related parts, trigger packages, etc. If not that handy, consider buying from them, or sending them a gun you've found that you like.

(I just traded away a Browning Hi-Power that I've owned for almost 20 years. I just wasn't using it. I you get one tuned and already ready to go, they're great, but they can be awkward, otherwise. Mine was very nice, but I just wasn't shooting it. It had become a safe queen.)

Don’t own a Hi-Power, but I do like them a lot and see myself getting one in the future if the price is right. However, I also think the Cz 75 and it’s derivatives have kind of made the Hi-Power the definition of obsolete. It’s just not practical to indulge in making a Hi-Power the chosen duty/defense gun in 2018. Quite frankly you can get everything and more out of a fine tuned Cz for a much better price, availability, and service. I am by no means knocking the Hi-Power, it’s an fantastic gun and one that has its place in history along with many others. I just got a P01 and I’d say go with the Cz for carry and maybe get the Hi-Power for show and tell or a range piece that will put a smile on your face when you shoot it. That’s just my opinion and I’m sure somebody will disagree.

I owned a Hi Power years ago and consider Hi Power's an excellent gun. Recently I purchased a CZ75 PCR . Of the two I prefer the PCR over the Hi Power for a CCW gun.

I love my P01. Absolutley fantastic pistol that took me too long to find.

P-01, it's not even in the same state close.

Love my Hi-Power but for CCW I would definitely go with my P01.

Another vote for the CZ over the Hi Power....

Funny that you mention it; I used to carry a Hi-Power and now carry a PCR/75D compact. I switched because I prefer a DA/SA gun (though true DAO would be equally good), but I love the HP. I've customized the PCR so far with Tru-Glo sights. The old HP has a Meprolight front night sight, which I never found adequately-bright (I will eventually switch it for a Trijicon or Tru-Glo).

The Hi Power is an iconic gun that is worth having for its own sake. However, I wouldn't recommend it for CCW for two reasons.

One is that the CZ you mentioned will do the job better.

The other is that Browning's decision to cease production changes it from a working gun to a collector's item. Decent examples will increase in price. Therefore, you wouldn't want to compromise its condition by carrying it daily. Also, if you used it in a defensive shooting, it would go into evidence. If you got it back at all, there is no guarantee it will have been stored properly.

I own several BHPs, a P01 and an all steel P01. The all steel P01 has a Cajun Gun Works Pro Package installed. The P01 is stock. I also have a CZ75 B with a CGW Pro package as well. The Alloy BHP was worked on by Don Wiiliams. I also have a Garthwaite BHP and a few other custom BHPs. The custom work on the CZs cost less than the BHPs but the BHPs have a much higher level of fit and finish.

I carry a Alloy BHP almost everyday. I used to carry the P01 but stopped carrying in when I got the custom work done on my alloy gun. The alloy framed BHP weighs about the same as a Glock 19. I would image that the majority of people choosing the P01 have never held a Alloy BHP. With a FM detective kit on an Alloy frame you have an amazing pistol. The cost it going to be high but it will be a one of a kind gun which may or may not be important to you.

The big consideration is do you want to carry a wide DA/SA gun or do you want to carry a slimmer SAO gun. The two guns handle very differently in the hand. For me personally the BHP fits my hand better. It point more naturally. The BHP is excellent with good trigger job and better sights. The P01 is a good DA/SA after about 1000 rounds, they are a little rough right out of the box. They become amazing with a CGW trigger job. They are completely different guns in both form and function. For me personally I do not need a rail on a carry gun. YMMV There is not an objective right or wrong choice. It is just a subjective choice.

The P01 is thick on the hip because of the rail. The BHP is much thinner. For me even with the standard slide it is easier to conceal then the P01. With a commander slide it will be even easier to conceal.

For me I would skip the SFS package. It IMHO is a solution looking for a problem. It over complicates the trigger, hammer and sear system for very little benefit. The BHP as a cocked and locked gun is as it should be.

These are my P01 and my Custom Steel P01









This is my Alloy BHP

WVsig

You make for an interesting and compelling argument for the alloy frame Hi-Power. Both the Hi-Power and the P-01 fit my hand like a glove with a slight edge to the Hi-Power for a better SA trigger (the P-01 trigger could use some work). But truth be told I had a hard enough time just finding a P-01 a few years ago that I can't imagine how long it would take and what it would cost, to locate an alloy frame and then have it made into a custom lightweight Hi-Power by a qualified gunsmith. If I thought that the P-01 was too wide with the rail (which I don't), I would probably go looking for a CZ 75 Compact or CZ 75 D PCR instead.

By the way, love your Williams Custom lightweight Hi-Power, your P-01, and your custom steel P-01!

There is a seller on GB who has a batch of Alloy BHPs. The cost is somewhat steep and the the wait to get it into the hands of a good smith is not going to be short which are all factors which lead to the P01 being the "right" choice. Don't get me wrong I love my P01s and they are great guns. I just have a soft spot for the BHP. The P01 fits me well just not as well as the BHP.

My all steel P01 is a tank and shoots like a dream. It shoots as well as my custom 75B and my Shadow 2.

If I want to carry an all steel BHP these days it is this one. Mr Garthwaite built it for me. In terms of elegance in the hand this one is hard to beat.

WVsig

If I want to carry an all steel BHP these days it is this one. Mr Garthwaite built it for me. In terms of elegance in the hand this one is hard to beat.

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My thought exactly as soon as I saw it! Indeed, that's pure elegance in a Hi-Power!

I love BHPs and have owned a handful of them. I'm down to two. Once nice example bone stock, one worn and kinda beat up one with custom work done. I should have started with a nice base gun but I was stupid.

I've never loved the esthetics and minimal amount of slide exposed on CZs so I've never owned one (other than a surplus 82 back in the day).

Today if I wanted a BHP customized for CCW I'd look at the Wilson EDC X9. It's expensive, and probably more expensive than a full house custom BHP and now waiting for months to have it done and no hunting for a clean aluminum frame BHP.

You get BHP/1911 proportions, the lightweight of an aluminum frame, and I'm sure fit and finish and quality is very nice. I don't own one, but if I was looking for a BHP for carry purposes, I'd look at the EDC X9 and see if that fits the bill.

The EDC X9 is a nice gun. I shot Ken Hackathorns during training class I took in Feb. It is a great gun but handles very differently than the BHP or CZ. If you want one build the way you want it you are looking at at least a 6 month wait.

It is on my want list.

Comparing an EDC X9 to a CZ or a regular Hi Power isn't really a fair fight. Comparing a EDC X9 to a Nighthawk Hi Power would level the field a bit.

A neighbor died. His wife who hates guns gave me three of her husband's guns, one a mint 1968 Belgium-made Browning Hi-Power (the other two were a S&W 6906 and Model 36 2-inch, blued, both in Excellent Condition). I offered to pay her, but she just wanted them gone. She also gave me some ammo. But that's neither here nor there. My point is that I am now an avid Hi-Power fan!!! The bluing is amazing, and I love the gun, though I never would have been able to afford buying if it hadn't fallen into my hands. For some reason, Brownings, I learned, have some rust problems in the serrations on the slide. I've seen photos on the Internet, and when I took the gun apart to remove the magazine safety, I noticed some light surface rust in the magazine well and in the frame, but no pitting. I soaked a patch with BreakFree CLP and took several brushes and in just a few minutes there was so sign of rust.

The Browning design is outstanding and I'm sold on it. Even though mine is all steel, the weight is very manageable and I would have no problem carrying it. If it had an aluminum frame, so much the better. The grip is perfect for my hand and my only two gripes with the gun would be the horrible sights and the low-profile safety. I can put in a new adjustable sight, but the safety is okay (I've trained myself to click off the safety on this and my Taurus PT-92 when cocked and locked).

So I'm a huge fan of the Hi-Power. When I first got these guns, I considered hard-chroming the Browning and the Smith M36; however, the bluing is so nice I just couldn't do it. The M36 will fit in the pocket of my blue jeans and it's easy to reach and lightweight.

The ONLY thing about the Hi-Power design that puzzles me is why Browning/Saive designed the connection between the trigger and the hammer, -- the sear lever -- which is located in the slide!!

(I know that there were Colt patents still in effect during some of the design phase of the gun, and they couldn't copy that part of the Colt 1911 design.) Maybe it's just me, but it seems to be a really awkward mechanism and arguably more complex than it needs to be... The rest of the design is almost elegant: ergonomic, slim, and probably the gun that made double-stack mags both practical and popular.

Confedrate

Welcome to the Hi-Power Club! Now you know the allure of this fine semi-auto. My brother's Hi-Power (circa mid '70s), also had a problem with rust forming on that beautiful bluing so he had it hard chromed by Ron Mahovsky of Metalife. Looked great and no other problems ever again with rust. The only thing was whenever someone saw his Hi-Power they wanted to know where he found one made out of stainless steel!

jjones45 said:

Don’t own a Hi-Power, but I do like them a lot and see myself getting one in the future if the price is right.

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Speaking of the price of Hi Powers, they are going in the wrong direction lately for someone looking to buy. Several months ago you could buy a very nice used Hi Power for $500 if you kept your eyes open for a month or two. Now that they've announced the discontinuation of the HP, that same gun will go closer to the $800 range.

I have a full size steel HP and with the work I've had done to it I would far rather have a CZ for carry. I can't replace the HP easily but can with the CZ even with their short supply problems.

Walt Sherrill said:

The ONLY thing about the Hi-Power design that puzzles me is why Browning/Saive designed the connection between the trigger and the hammer, -- the sear lever -- which is located in the slide!!

(I know that there were Colt patents still in effect during some of the design phase of the gun, and they couldn't copy that part of the Colt 1911 design.) Maybe it's just me, but it seems to be a really awkward mechanism and arguably more complex than it needs to be... The rest of the design is almost elegant: ergonomic, slim, and probably the gun that made double-stack mags both practical and popular.

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Yup this is an odd fact about the BHP. IIRC the trigger design was done by JMB not Saive. When JMB was designing it the 1911 patents were in play but by the time the gun was fielded in 1935 those patent protections were gone. Saive incorporated some of the 1911 design aspects before completing the pistol. I think it is more complicated than it needs to be but then again so is the CZ design IMHO.