A List of all manufactures with DA/SA Pistols currently in Production

MedWheeler said:

I'll be picky, too. They only "start out in Double Action (DA) mode" if the hammer is lowered (manually, or with a decocker) after the first-up round is chambered. They probably should have originally been dubbed something like "SA, with optional DA."

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Only if you could find an owners manual or professional trainer that recommends carrying a Traditional Double Action (TDA) semi-auto with the hammer cocked (note the OP is referring to guns with a decocker). Since there probably aren't any, and the owner's manuals will almost always say, after chambering a round, decock the pistol before holstering, I think DA/SA is where it's at.

Kaybee said:

I have no data on this, but my impression is that we have a new generation of shooters coming up that seem a lot more willing to put the time in to “get good” and they seem a lot more willing to research what they want as well. I wonder if any connect with da sa pistols and if that has any effect on the market.

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This new shooter right here.

I don't have quite the depth of experience as many of you guys but I just see diversity in the market and I don't see that going anywhere. Sure CZ and SIG are adding strikers to their lineups but also more traditional double actions. Even Springfield added a TDA to their already successful XD line. TDA may never be a prominent share of the market but they will always be there.

Forgot the Walther P99AS.

JeeperCreeper said:

That PR-15 is awesome!!!! I never saw it before. I need that gun....

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Yeah, no kidding, right?

That's the type of gun I can discover and say "ooh, I want one", even though it doesn't appear to be anything new or bleeding-tech. Metal frame, hammer-fired, hi-cap DA/SA. I have plenty of different models just in 9mm, but I'd pursue another if the build is quality. Just to have.

I should have bought a Mag 98 when they were available, especially when they were below $300. I know it's an obscure gun without parts available, but a wellmade metal gun will stand up to occasional use (as I would do with it). Now, they're all gone, and I find a hole in my "oddball" group.

lsudave said:

Yeah, no kidding, right?

That's the type of gun I can discover and say "ooh, I want one", even though it doesn't appear to be anything new or bleeding-tech. Metal frame, hammer-fired, hi-cap DA/SA. I have plenty of different models just in 9mm, but I'd pursue another if the build is quality. Just to have.

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Well I like gnarly looking guns, and that thing looks mean!

Plus I'm Polish, so I'm biased

Walkalong said:

I hate decockers. Won't have a pistol with one.

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Yes, being able to safely de-cock a pistol is highly overrated.

I'm just the opposite, I won't have one that doesn't have a de-cocker. I actually prefer my DA/SA pistols with de-cocker only.

Maybe Ruger will bring back the P series, those were some great guns.

stchman said:

Yes, being able to safely de-cock a pistol is highly overrated.

I'm just the opposite, I won't have one that doesn't have a de-cocker. I actually prefer my DA/SA pistols with de-cocker only.

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Maybe it's because I started out with revolvers as a kid, and then went to the CZ 75- but I've never had an issue with safely decocking a pistol. Sure, it takes full attention, but that should be the case with your firearm anyway.

That's not to denigrate those with decockers, just noting that I assumed it was normal operation for awhile.

Just to add to the confusion, the Daewoo DP-51 and the current Lionheart offerings gives you an additional option; the triple action, DA+, or fast action.
You cock the gun as normal, then flick the hammer back with your thumb. The hammer assembly is hinged in a weird way, so that the hammer is down and the trigger is forward, but the pull is much lighter than DA. The trigger pull is as long as a DA, and is staged- the first movement is to flick the hammer back to SA, and then you can apply a hair more pressure to get a SA shot. There's a firing pin block that is only disengaged with a trigger pull, so the hammer flick is safe.

Also, the Star 30MI that I have is different again; the safety rotates the firing pin away (like a Beretta), but doesn't decock, lock or disable the hammer. You can then drop the hammer any way you like, including dry-firing, with no chance of firing.

My first hand gun was a Bersa 383 (Before enough of them blew up to earn the moniker "Thunder"). Then a Ruger P85 which I traded for a Beretta 92 which I still own (I still own the Bersa too... I haven't disliked anyone enough to sell it to them). I learned on and love SA/DA pistols! I think my favorite is my P38... they got a lot right in that gun. Then the Glocks came along and ruined everything.

All my carry guns are DAO or striker fired because I haven't found a SA/DA in a sub-compact pistol. I prefer a double action first round then SA follow up rounds... and hate the thought of lowering the hammer on a DA without a decocker. I love my 1911's with their target SA triggers but have never wanted to carry cocked and locked. I would love to get a CZ-75 in Stainless loaded for 10mm... but there is no such beast that I can find... I guess I will just have to wait for that S&W 1006 to find me.

Thanks for the list!

np

Of the DA/SA designs the Sig 226, and similar pistols are my favorites. But I'm going with striker fired, along with a 1911 style safety as the gun of the future. DA/SA is on the way out. S&W and Ruger, the 2 largest handgun manufacturers dropped their traditional DA/SA guns years ago. That leaves Sig and Beretta as the only major players left, and only because of military contracts. Beretta 92's are almost never seen on gun shop shelves anymore and as soon as the military fully converts to the Sig 320 I look for Sig and Beretta to drop their DA/SA guns just like Smith and Ruger.

All of the other gun makers on the OPs list are minor players and their DA/SA guns are not exactly their flagship pistols. I'm of the opinion that either a true SA with a safety or a DAO striker fired gun with, or without a safety are vastly better than the DA/SA designs. Especially those with backwards safeties like Beretta. Some, such as the Sig that use a decocker are tolerable.

But the good news for those who like them, there will be plenty of used guns out there to meet the demand for several generations.

I think the reason you don't see Beretta 92's on the shelves anymore is they've interrupted production and moved their plant from Maryland to Tennessee. I also think the lack of popularity of the SIG P-Series guns has more to do with the inconsistent quality control at SIG rather than a dislike for the inherent design of their pistols.

Beretta has a bunch of new options rolling out in their 92 Series guns that address some of the knocks against them (can't do anything for those that don't care for DA/SA, though). Expect to see the Vertec/M9A3 slide become more common in the line-up as it allows a front dovetail and replaceable front sights without having to use the Brigadier slide. Expect to see an increasing number of decocker only models, or at least the option to user switch the gun from safety/decocker to decocker only.

The DA/SA guns are the flagship guns in the Tanfoglio and an CZ line-ups, and while these aren't real large selling makes, they do sell a lot of guns to competition shooters, and these guns win a lot. As long as people copy what the top competition shooters are using, and a lot of them are shooting these guns, the DA/SA guns will be around.

Every time I watch this Ernest Langdon Beretta 92/M9 video, I want to buy a Beretta 92.



It doesn't get any better than (about 2:05 - 2:45), "It's not like a Glock..."

jmr40 said:

... as soon as the military fully converts to the Sig 320 I look for Sig and Beretta to drop their DA/SA guns just like Smith and Ruger.

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The increased popularity of Appendix carry (AIWB) has brought a renewed interest in hammer fired guns, namely the DA/SA guns as it allows you to decock the gun, and block the hammer with your thumb as you reholster which should lessen the potential for unintended discharges.

Lucky Gunner blog "Why I switched to Double Action Pistols"

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-switched-double-action/

Kaybee said:

Applying your arguments to other guns, the 1911 should have completely disapeared a long long time ago. Obviously thats a different market but they dont seem to be going anywhere either.

As far as Sig and others adding nice striker fired guns to their lineup, I think a better way to read the trend is that large manufacturers want to have options that will appeal to a lot of different types of shooters. $

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The 1911 is the exception not the rule. There is a mystique which surrounds the pistol in the US. I believe it has a lot to do with it being Grand Dad's gun he took to war or the gun that Vietnam Vets remember. There is a lot of nostalgia around the gun in the US and it skews perceived popularity of the gun IMHO. It is not a popular platform outside the US. It never has been and never will be. The rest of the world is a 9mm world. It is not a 45 ACP world. The 45 ACP is more popular here than anywhere else.

I was talking to Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn in Feb about the different platforms out there and what is dominating the US and Global market. Both of them stated in 100% agreement "It is a Glock World". They train people all over the world. They live and breathe this stuff and everywhere they go they see Glock 17s and 19s. They are the dominate platform and the platform everyone else is chasing. It is the base line from which all other striker fired guns are compared to. It does not make it the best it makes it the best selling and most popular configuration and platform. That does not mean there are not pockets of people shooting DA/SA or SAO cocked and locked guns but the majority of the world in one way or another has adopted the striker fired DAO gun in 9mm.

I am not saying I like that DA/SA is on the way out but it the number bear it out. Look at how many SAO versions of classic P series guns Sig now produces because they have to move the metal and the vast majority of todays shooters want a single type of trigger pull on their guns. It can be striker or SAO but they want one pull not the DA/SA variety. This does not mean they will completely go away but I see their numbers have been drastically reduced in the last 10 years and I do not see anything on the horizon to change that trend. Beretta is going to have a hard time keeping up in the pistol market with the loss of the Army contract and the economy scale it brought to the 92 platform. Sig is push their tactical plastic hard and segmenting the traditional DA/S guns to Legion, cult status, level guns. This signals to me the direction of the company. Lets face it the tactical plastic striker fired guns are cheaper to produce and yield lower prices and deliver more profit to the manufacturer than traditional metal framed DA/SA guns. It is hard to fight that rising tide. YMMV

JTQ said:

I think the reason you don't see Beretta 92's on the shelves anymore is they've interrupted production and moved their plant from Maryland to Tennessee. I also think the lack of popularity of the SIG P-Series guns has more to do with the inconsistent quality control at SIG rather than a dislike for the inherent design of their pistols.

Beretta has a bunch of new options rolling out in their 92 Series guns that address some of the knocks against them (can't do anything for those that don't care for DA/SA, though). Expect to see the Vertec/M9A3 slide become more common in the line-up as it allows a front dovetail and replaceable front sights without having to use the Brigadier slide. Expect to see an increasing number of decocker only models, or at least the option to user switch the gun from safety/decocker to decocker only.

The DA/SA guns are the flagship guns in the Tanfoglio and an CZ line-ups, and while these aren't real large selling makes, they do sell a lot of guns to competition shooters, and these guns win a lot. As long as people copy what the top competition shooters are using, and a lot of them are shooting these guns, the DA/SA guns will be around.

Every time I watch this Ernest Langdon Beretta 92/M9 video, I want to buy a Beretta 92.



It doesn't get any better than (about 2:05 - 2:45), "It's not like a Glock..."

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There are Beretta 92s on the shelves of every gun store in my area.

OP did I miss you mention the Sphinx?

I've been trying to master my Sig 229 after a lifetime of 1911s and strikers and am almost to where I need to be. Just in time to finally get a SAO 229 and forget all I've learned.

I think the whole 2 trigger thing is a myth, or at least misnomer. Anyone transitioning from a striker or SAO will likely have no issue with any decent DA/SA guns single action trigger, and once you understand a reset it doesnt matter what of the 3 you are running. I think the challenge is simply mastering the DA part of the trigger. I'm not there yet but am getting much closer.

JTQ said:

The increased popularity of Appendix carry (AIWB) has brought a renewed interest in hammer fired guns, namely the DA/SA guns as it allows you to decock the gun, and block the hammer with your thumb as you reholster which should lessen the potential for unintended discharges.

Lucky Gunner blog "Why I switched to Double Action Pistols"

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-switched-double-action/

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If you look closely at the article it quotes Tom Green: I put the bold in for emphasis.

“[With] a trigger pull that is both longer and heavier than most other actions, there is far more tactile feedback that the trigger is being pulled in between the start of inadvertent unintentional movement and the Big Loud Noise. We’ve lost sight of this as a community with the prevalence of ever lighter and shorter striker fired action triggers and candidly I doubt we’ll see the pendulum swing back any time soon… The shooting community always blames the operator for every accident and never considers the role that equipment plays in making some guns more or less likely to facilitate those accidents.”

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JR24 said:

There are Beretta 92s on the shelves of every gun store in my area.

OP did I miss you mention the Sphinx?

I've been trying to master my Sig 229 after a lifetime of 1911s and strikers and am almost to where I need to be. Just in time to finally get a SAO 229 and forget all I've learned.

I think the whole 2 trigger thing is a myth, or at least misnomer. Anyone transitioning from a striker or SAO will likely have no issue with any decent DA/SA guns single action trigger, and once you understand a reset it doesnt matter what of the 3 you are running. I think the challenge is simply mastering the DA part of the trigger. I'm not there yet but am getting much closer.

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I was going to mention Sphinx. I have a SDP Subcompact on my hip as I type. It is my summer carry gun. It is an amazing piece of Swiss engineering. Too bad they no longer make them in Switzerland. Also Sphinx which is now made in VA IIRC is owned by KRISS and they produce a very low volume of pistols. They had some momentum a few years back but slow production, the bankruptcy of Sphinx and the lack of a real marketing push did not allow them to grow. Good pistols but they are almost never available in your local gun shop.

I am not sure I would call it a myth. The struggle for many is real. Most people do not shoot enough to master a single trigger pull let alone 2 trigger pulls in the same gun IMHO. Just look around at the targets at your local range next time you are there. Most look like they have been shot with a shotgun. LOL

The DA pull is where the rubber meets the road. Again most people do not have enough time behind the gun to master short light triggers. Posting stuff from Langdon is great I love to watch him shoot and want to attend one of his classes but what is lost is the hundred of thousands of rounds he has shot in his lifetime to get to that level or proficiency. It is not anywhere near as easy as it looks in his videos.

Most people who own guns in this country shoot less than 1000 rounds a year. Think about that. If you have limited time and resources and you have a choice between an easier to shoot platform, DAO Striker vs a harder to shoot platform DA/SA which one are you going to pick. Occam's razor tells us to pick the simpler route. IMHO for the vast majority of shooters this makes sense. They are much more likely to be able to become proficient on a striker fired gun shooting less than 1000 rounds a year than a DA/SA gun.

I often say that those of us who shoot a lot and hangout in these forums have a skewed view of just how often the avg gun owner shoots. The reality is that most people in this country who own guns don't know how to define a striker fired gun or what the difference is between it and a traditional DA/SA gun. They simply don't shoot enough or really care enough to know. What they do know is that "Glocks" are good guns. LOL

One good thing about striker fired guns is they are easier to shoot. One bad thing about striker fired guns is they are easier to shoot.

If you only handle a gun at the range or in competition, that is a big advantage. If you spend a whole lot more time administratively handling the gun rather than shooting it (probably just about everybody that isn't a professional shooter), there is something to be said for a gun that is harder to get to fire (especially unintentionally) than one that is easier.

I'm not arguing the trend toward striker fired guns, I think that is undeniable, but there is an advantage for many, with a DA/SA gun.

JTQ said:

One good thing about striker fired guns is they are easier to shoot. One bad thing about striker fired guns is they are easier to shoot.

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They're easier to shoot for the first shot, but then harder to shoot for all the remaining shots. That's why they've actually receded quite a bit in competition, with the DA/SA guns making a big comeback in divisions/categories wherever SAO pistols aren't allowed.

Walkalong said:

This is always a good argument here (Let's not), but I have been safely de-cocking 1911s and other hammer fired guns for 44 years. Not to mention revolvers. To each their own.

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You are definitely limiting yourself if you want to buy a DA/SA pistol without a decocker(CZ-75 and its clones?). I gather the Sig P series, H&K USP series, FNs, Beretta 92 and PX guns are all off your list.