well guys i worked up a load using 4f goex in my 1851 navy 36 caliber

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midland man

midland man

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so here's the scoop after hearing how using 4f goex in my 51' navy colt 36 caliber replica by pietta would blow the gun up, I started out with 20grs of 4f goex and it didn't with a lubed wad really get the ball against the charge very good so that one load was weak! now the next load and mind you I was only loading one charge in the cylinder at a time and so I went up to 25grs 4f goex and 1/8th inch lubed wad and it had some okay power as a target load! but wasn't satisfied so I went up to 30grs 4f goex and now with a 1/8th inch lubed wad and roundball now this load wad all the cylinder could hold and had to push the ball in pretty hard but cleared the chamber mouth and so with this load I was very impressed as it has even more power with 30grs 4f over 30grs of 3f goex and shoots very strong and accuracy was even better and cleaner burning! so I decided to load all six with this max load and didn't have any trouble! so I really like the goex 4f at 30grs measured with a pistol measure leveled as the cylinders can't hold any more than that! but yeah my pistol survived and performed very well and so I can't see why it couldn't take care of hogs with this max load!!
 
midland man said:
so here's the scoop after hearing how using 4f goex in my 51' navy colt 36 caliber replica by pietta would blow the gun up, I started out with 20grs of 4f goex and it didn't with a lubed wad really get the ball against the charge very good so that one load was weak! now the next load and mind you I was only loading one charge in the cylinder at a time and so I went up to 25grs 4f goex and 1/8th inch lubed wad and it had some okay power as a target load! but wasn't satisfied so I went up to 30grs 4f goex and now with a 1/8th inch lubed wad and roundball now this load wad all the cylinder could hold and had to push the ball in pretty hard but cleared the chamber mouth and so with this load I was very impressed as it has even more power with 30grs 4f over 30grs of 3f goex and shoots very strong and accuracy was even better and cleaner burning! so I decided to load all six with this max load and didn't have any trouble! so I really like the goex 4f at 30grs measured with a pistol measure leveled as the cylinders can't hold any more than that! but yeah my pistol survived and performed very well and so I can't see why it couldn't take care of hogs with this max load!!
Click to expand...

Maybe you’d be further impressed by using 3F Olde E or Swiss. Standard Goex isn’t impressive and I’d guess even 4F doesn’t equate to Olde E 3F, but then I’ve not seen it compared since no one cares to.
 
Sounds like some mythology has been busted!! I hadn't given much thought about shooting 4f in my revolvers, I have a pound of it and now have a way to get it gone. I used to use it as priming powder for my rocklocks but soon figured out that it was much easier to prime with whatever was in the horn. So I have this can of goex sitting there looking at me with no where to go. Gonna shoot it in my ROAs this fall after the fire danger comes down.
 
And I've got 2 or 3 cans to use up. I still use it in my flintlocks, but don't shoot them very much anymore. Looking in my Layman BP handbook, 1st edition, they show 29grs of 3F GEOX having 1097fps, 9,440LUP [ 10,440psi ? ] and 216ft/lbs of energy. With 27.5 grs of 4F everything was the same except the pressure was 200 LUP higher. They also show 4F being used in the 31 and 44. In the 44 there isn't much difference between 3 and 4F, but is shines in the 31. With 13grs ME goes from 54 to 70.
 
rodwha - 4f was available, but what arsenal provided 4F powder and where was it used? Curious.
 
4v50 Gary said:
rodwha - 4f was available, but what arsenal provided 4F powder and where was it used? Curious.
Click to expand...

The paper cartridges sold to the Army by Hazard’s used what they called Pistol Powder. A fellow found some and tested them finding them to contain 4F powder and about equivalent to what we see with Swiss and Olde Eynsford powder. He wrote up a nice report and gave permission to pass it along. It’s rather lengthy so it needs to be sent via email. I’ve copied it all (he has some other testing) and saved it. It can be found in the Percussion Revolver group in the Files on Yahoo or I can send it if anyone would like to see for themselves.
 
maint1517 said:
I'd love to know how a max load of 4f like that does in a .44!
Click to expand...
I've used 40gr. of Goex in my ROA on a few occasions, the 1st when I ran out of 3F in my flask, but was also shooting my flinter and had a small flask of 4f for priming, well the ROA guide says any grade of black, but 3f is preferred, so I loaded up and there's a definite difference in recoil and POI is a little higher at 10 yds.
 
You’re gonna die if you do this...












;-)

Btw midland... you really need a chrony. They’re not terrible expensive and your method of listening to the report, and feeling the recoil is frankly not much removed from witchcraft...
 
woodnbow said:
You’re gonna die if you do this... I sure wouldn't do it with if theres triple 7 in 4f man that would be hot ;)












;-)

Btw midland... you really need a chrony. They’re not terrible expensive and your method of listening to the report, and feeling the recoil is frankly not much removed from witchcraft...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Given how thick the walls are on .36 1851's by Pietta I'm not surprised. Were you doing this in an 1862 Pocket I would advise against it and that's about the only .36 I would avoid using 4F in.

IMO, there's no point in 4F in .44's. Just cram the chambers full of Triple 7 instead.
 
TTv2 said:
Given how thick the walls are on .36 1851's by Pietta I'm not surprised. Were you doing this in an 1862 Pocket I would advise against it and that's about the only .36 I would avoid using 4F in.

IMO, there's no point in 4F in .44's. Just cram the chambers full of Triple 7 instead.
Click to expand...

Indeed the chambers are rather thick. Colt even made a .40 cal version but the military chose the .36 over it for whatever reason.

Actually people do often use 4F in the various pocket models.

Like you, I don’t see a need for 4F in a .44 as a few powders produce plenty of horsepower. However I’d opt for Olde E (or Swiss) over T7 as the few chronograph results posted show they are more consistent with a much lower SD over T7 and with a bit more velocity to boot. And then there’s the claim that it degrades over time once opened.
 
rodwha said:
Indeed the chambers are rather thick. Colt even made a .40 cal version but the military chose the .36 over it for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
Even in the 1850's the Army wanted 9mm over a .40...
 
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