Thumper Revisited - Magazine eject

No, I haven't seen that. (Partially ejecting the mag)

If my memory serves me correctly didn't he say something in 'To Ride, Shoot Straight And Speak The Truth' that it should have a flashing red light or something to that effect?

alfsauve said:

What I hadn't seen discussed before was his idea that when the gun chambered the last round the magazine would partially eject letting you know that you were down to the one round.

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With all due respect to Col. Cooper, and assuming he actually said it, that's the kind of idea someone who has never designed hard use machines comes up with. When you start trying to incorporate features like that requiring delicate little parts in place of an otherwise robust retention system, you get problems. And mechanical complexity aside, the idea that someone in a gunfight would notice a fairly subtle thing like a magazine sticking out a tad farther than normal is pretty silly, especially on a rifle that already has a protruding mag. Think about it; would you even notice your AR's 30 round mag dropping down 1/2" (or even inch) while shooting at the range, where your focus is on the weapon and shooting for fun, not on trying to avoid being shot in a dynamic, high-stress situation?

Cooper had some very good ideas and some very strange ideas, and the problem was that he was fanatically committed to both.

Having a magazine somehow stick halfway down when the last bullet is chambered definitely falls under part B. I don't look at my magazines while I'm shooting - how about you guys?

Could just go with a CK that drops the mag when it runs empty and Chambers the next round upon insertion of a fresh mag.

Friend of mine has one, I haven't played with it at all yet tho.

The closest thing i can think of is the clip in an Italian Carcano; when the last round is loaded the clip falls out the bottom.

desidog said:

The closest thing i can think of is the clip in an Italian Carcano; when the last round is loaded the clip falls out the bottom.

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This is what I think of too. A dangerous game rifle with this feature might be nice...

I must admit though, in a bolt gun with detachable mags, that a floor plate bolt stop does the trick nicely to let you know you're empty.

He wanted a built in system for a bolt action hunting rifle that would allow him to easily access a round or three to top off with that was not ugly or in the way. A mutual friend sent him a couple of ideas I had and he did not like them....so I suggested magic.

I wish I had been able to spend time with him. Whatever folks feel about him he was one of the late greats.

-kBob

I think there are some gun gamer accessories that automatically eject empty magazines. Get one of those, increase friction in the magwell or invent a partial detent, and you are in business.

The only problem is that it doesn't sound particularly useful. You'd never ever notice the magazine jump down a little unless your shooting position results in a hand on it (which would be obscenely unfashionable in the age of the "hold the weenie" grip). And then it would slow down reloads since you'd probably need to manually yank the magazine out of the gun.

I’m in agreement with the sentiment - “Cooper had some great ideas, and some stupid ones, but was equally dedicated to both.” The magazine partial eject is a stupid idea. It’s effectively a jam - the magazine serves no further purpose except to force the shooter to manipulate and correct the condition before proceeding to fire. A full eject, I can get on board with, in certain circumstances - but ONLY in a bolt gun, where the bolt must be manually operated no matter what. A mag eject in a semiauto, again, is effectively a failure to fire or a failure to feed, such the shooter has to manipulate the action to continue to fire after they fire that last shot and the action closes on an empty chamber.

What I DO appreciate in a rifle, is the ability to drop rounds in the port, or even load rounds into the mag if so desired. A 700 style action cut for AW mags is so capable. AW mags also offer a bolt stop so the shooter won’t run dry. It’s easily disabled if the shooter prefers to drop one but not push it down into the mag, but in some circumstances, having the follower block the bolt, indicating empty, is very nice.

Looking beyond the mech tech Col. Cooper was proposing, we could make a reliable electronic
indicators of ammunition exhaustion. However, that does add parts and a battery requirement
independent of any electro-optical sight. Not a happy encumbrance of a military weapon design.

I agree that partial ejection of an empty magazine would serve no purpose I can tell.

On the other hand, a box magazine cheap enough to completely eject and discard like the en-bloc clip of a Mannlicher or Garand would be a help in sustained fire.

Jim Watson said:

I agree that partial ejection of an empty magazine would serve no purpose I can tell.

On the other hand, a box magazine cheap enough to completely eject and discard like the en-bloc clip of a Mannlicher or Garand would be a help in sustained fire.

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Your response reminded me of reading about the adoption of the M-14. There was an argument at one point about the enbloc clip vs a magazine
Each had its benefits.
The argument for the enbloc over the magazine was that the ammo in enbloc clips could be dropped in ready to stick in a rifle. The magazine on the other hand had to be loaded from loose rounds. Concern was long term weakening of the magazine spring

45/70 definition of a Thumper

Large caliber, heavy bullets, reloadable on the fly and reliable functioning.

jonwill,

The M14 had a stripper clip guide that allowed the use of 1903 like "Mauser" stripper clips to load a magazine in the rifle. Ammo to Infantry units was in bandoleers just like the M1 clip bandoleers with each pocket holding two five round stripper clips instead of one eight round in block. Each bandoleer also contained one "spoon" magazine loader that slipped over the back of the mag and held a stripper clip for loading individual mags off the rifle, just like with the M16A1 and its strippers.

I think the only time most of us loaded "loose rounds" in the M14 in service was when loading blanks from 20 round boxes or Match Ammo in a competition from the cardboard boxes as well. Some of us even risked trouble by saving a few stripper clips and then on field problems where only a single magazine had been issued but two or three 20 round cardboard boxes of blanks, loaded used strippers with blanks for easier and quicker loading.

With a partially empty M14 one could pull back the bolt and lock it (and eject one live round) then top off with stripper clips on the gun. Not something one could do with an enblock clip fed M1.

-kBob