Transfer to Address NOT on FFL?

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jonnyc

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I think I'm right, but.......

Can an FFL ship a C&R firearm to an 03 licensee, but ship it to them at an out-of-state address NOT on their FFL?

*To clarify; the 01 is in one state, the 03 is in a second state, and the shipping address is in a third state.
 
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While legal, no way in heck would I do so.
It screams fraud.


It isn't difficult to have ATF add a second address as the mailing address shown on the FFL.

https://www.atf.gov/file/4256/download

September 2013 FFL NEWSLETTER Volume 2
FFLs May Ship Firearms to Locations Other than the Business Premises Address
ATF has received numerous inquiries asking if a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) may ship firearms to an address that is different from what is listed on the recipient’s Federal firearms license.

Neither the Gun Control Act (GCA) nor its implementing regulations contain specific provisions requiring that an FFL have firearms shipped to his/her licensed business premises when receiving firearms. Therefore, an FFL may lawfully receive firearms at his/her mailing address, storage location, or other address where the licensee intends to ensure safe and secure receipt of the firearms.

ATF Industry Circular 74-13 outlines “Guidelines for Verifying Identity and Licensed Status of Transferee.” It states, in part that “when the shipment is to be made to an address other than the transferee’s premises as listed on his or her license or on his or her certified list, it is suggested that the transferor verify the address as being that of the transferee.” ATF encourages FFLs to verify to the best of their ability that the shipping address is a valid location where the licensee is prepared to receive and subsequently possess the firearms. This may require that you contact the FFL listed on the license to verify that the address listed is accurate. In addition, if an FFL requires frequent delivery of firearms to an address other than his/her licensed business premises, ATF recommends that the shipping address be placed on file with the Federal Firearms Licensing Center (FFLC) as an additional mailing address. It should be noted that any FFL receiving firearms at locations other than his/her licensed premises must still maintain accurate records of acquisition and disposition of firearms.

Please be advised that there may be State laws that prohibit the receipt of firearms at a different address than what is listed on the license.
Click to expand...
 
I got an email from a dealer that is doing this for Californians. Although it appears to be legal, I have no idea how, and it sure don't smell kosher to me. Opens the door to way too many bad possibilities.
 
Uhhh, I would stay away from that with a 100 foot pole.

It could be 110% legit..but it sure doesn't look it. I had a C&R, but the few sellers I bought from would ONLY deliver it to my address on the FFL I sent.

It could be the ATF or Ca DOJ setting up out-of-state FFL's with a sting. That means arrest and prosecution.

It could be the media and anti-gunners showing how "lax" gun laws are, how easy it is to dupe a FFL to sell to someone illegally, etc.

It could be a fraudster who stole the identity of a FFL holder and is getting guns in the name of the FFL holder and the legit FFL is unaware of it.

It could be a shady FFL helping his buddies out and rolling the dice on his own freedom.

I don't want my ugly mug to appear on the TV news even if I was named the hero of the week... I really don't want it on TV as the suspect in one of these situations. I doubt you do as well...

Stay safe!
 
Just wanted to post this, even though Dogtown Tom already did, because someone obviously didn’t read it.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...ifferent-business-premises-address-identified

From the website:

May firearms be shipped to a licensee at an address different from the business premises address identified on the license?

Yes. Neither the GCA nor its implementing regulations require firearms be shipped only to the licensed business premises. Therefore, a licensee may lawfully receive firearms at the licensee’s mailing address, storage location, or other address where the licensee intends to ensure safe and secure receipt of the firearms.
 
Riomouse911 said:
It could be a fraudster who stole the identity of a FFL holder and is getting guns in the name of the FFL holder and the legit FFL is unaware of it.
Click to expand...

This is the big one. FFLs aren't that closely guarded, often on display at the location. Would be nothing for a person to snap a photo and email it to a distributor, online retailer or other seller. But it won't do them much good if the seller refuses to ship to an address other than the one on the license.
 
MachIVshooter said:
This is the big one. FFLs aren't that closely guarded, often on display at the location. Would be nothing for a person to snap a photo and email it to a distributor, online retailer or other seller. But it won't do them much good if the seller refuses to ship to an address other than the one on the license.
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No need to snap a photo, just do a Google image search and you'll find hundreds of images of a Federal Firearms License.
Then just ask any fifth grader to Photoshop a different address.

This is why ATF begs people to use FFL eZCheck to verify the validity of an FFL:https://fflezcheck.atf.gov/fflezcheck/ While there is no law that requires using eZCheck, the law does say that you can only ship a firearm interstate to a licensee. If a scammer sends you a forged FFL and you ship to his phony address...….YOU commit a Federal crime.
 
jonnyc said:
I got an email from a dealer that is doing this for Californians.
Click to expand...
That dealer is an idiot, not to mention committing a felony each time he does so.
Federal law prohibits a licensee from violating the firearms laws IN THE BUYER/TRANSFEREES state of residence. If California prohibits "Firearm X" then no dealer can lawfully ship that gun to a California buyer. Further, California law prohibits California residents from acquiring any firearm outside of California. Firearms purchased by a CA resident must be shipped to a licensed dealer in California.


Although it appears to be legal, I have no idea how, and it sure don't smell kosher to me. Opens the door to way too many bad possibilities.
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It doesn't appear legal to me in the least.
 
I think the confusion there is that some FFLs in Nevada or Arizona are receiving C&R firearms from FFLs in other states that don't want to deal with CFLC, then the California 03 FFL holder travels to that store and picks it up on an FFL transfer. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
rromeo said:
I think the confusion there is that some FFLs in Nevada or Arizona are receiving C&R firearms from FFLs in other states that don't want to deal with CFLC, then the California 03 FFL holder travels to that store and picks it up on an FFL transfer. There is nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...
Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through. CFLC is stupid and useless, but signing up is about as much trouble as signing onto a new forum and doing a transaction is like posting on one. Can't see the point in shipping to a third party and traveling out of state to avoid it.
 
If one lives in San Francisco, it may not be worth it unless you're going up there anyway. If you're around Tahoe it's not so bad. The way I heard from somebody that does it, he may buy several guns over time and the FFL in Reno holds them until he goes up there. It may also save money of transfer fees, some California FFLs charge $100 or more.
I agree that the CFLC is not as much trouble as some people play it as, but there are many FFLs that think they're sticking it to the state of by not shipping to California.
Anyway the point was that the poster that said it didn't seem legal may have been mistaken on what is actually going on.
 
rromeo said:
I think the confusion there is that some FFLs in Nevada or Arizona are receiving C&R firearms from FFLs in other states that don't want to deal with CFLC, then the California 03 FFL holder travels to that store and picks it up on an FFL transfer. There is nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...
If I ship to a Nevada FFL...…...I ship to him at the address shown on his FFL. If he subsequently transfers the firearm to a California collector with an 03FFL......then he needs to record the acquisition and subsequent disposition in his books and verify the authenticity of the buyers license because he is the transferor to the CA collector....not me.
 
Yes, I am aware. As I stated, I was clearing up what I believe is a misconception about a company shipping to a different state than the customer.
 
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