20 gauge recoil. Pump vs. semi-auto

Status
Not open for further replies.
NWcityguy2 said:
The big downside with the Mossberg SA-20s is that they are completely different guns than anything else they sell. And, they sell the guns, not the replacement parts. So, if you needed a new gas piston or extractor, you would need to find a gun shop overseas (most likely England) who sells parts for a Armsam 620, then eat the shipping costs.
Click to expand...

Mossberg carries replacement parts and services SA-20 shotguns in the US.. If you’d like to see the facility, follow the river from El Paso south and east for 500 miles. They don’t do tours though and are rather unfriendly to salesmen, again this is based on personal experience. If what you stated was true Mossberg wouldn’t sell many SA-20s.

It’s not any different with the SA-20 than it is with a Springfield XD. The XD is made by a company in Croatia but parts are available in the USA and repairs are done here.

Also SA-20 replacement parts are easier to get than Benelli parts if you ask me.
 
Last edited:
I called and asked about buying spare parts for the SA-20 back when I bought the gun. They didn't sell them. I'm not the only person online who has had this problem. I've emailed customer service with the same request and will post the reply I receive from them.

cdb1 said:
Also SA-20 replacement parts are easier to get than Benelli parts if you ask me.
Click to expand...

You mean as easy as buying them online from a domestic dealer, without having to deal with a single person during business hours? That's how easy it is to buy Benelli parts.
 
I am not so sure about that. Do you have some link to somewhere that states that Mossberg does not support and service their imported guns?
 
Having shot dozens of shotguns over the years of all types, there is much more felt recoil in a pump 20 than a semi auto. One of my regrets in life is selling a Remington 1100 LT-20.
 
I have about 4 12ga shotguns, and have used for deer, rabbbits doves etc. However It is amazing how I can take my 20ga 18" police cruiser pump and shoot that sucker for a whole lot of ammo down range with no problemo. Easy to handle and fast to target. I have done the same with 12ga and you can call it "Felt Recoil" if you want. I will stick with the 20ga. I am only sorry that all these years of hunting, etc. I did not get a 20 ga. earlier.
 
d2wing said:
Having shot dozens of shotguns over the years of all types, there is much more felt recoil in a pump 20 than a semi auto. One of my regrets in life is selling a Remington 1100 LT-20.
Click to expand...
Sorry, that is not anywhere close to scientific; what it is, is a comparison between one that fits, and one that doesn't......
 
I still have my Rem 1100 LT 20 that I bought new in 1997, along with a 1100 12 gauge made in 1983 that I got second hand in 1992. Your mind tells you that the lighter 20 has less recoil than a heavier 12 gauge. With 7/8 ounce 20 gauge and 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge clay loads I can't feel much difference. BUT when I go to South Dakota next Saturday, I will carry my 20 gauge more than the 12. Last year I shot all of my pheasants with the 20. The 12 gauge isn't as good looking, and comes along to be used if it may rain, or snow.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
The big downside with the Mossberg SA-20s is that they are completely different guns than anything else they sell. And, they sell the guns, not the replacement parts. So, if you needed a new gas piston or extractor, you would need to find a gun shop overseas (most likely England) who sells parts for a Armsam 620, then eat the shipping costs.
Click to expand...
That’s why I was pleased to learn that the Yildiz o/u guns imported by Academy have their warranty service managed by Briley’s, a highly regarded shotgun dealer and accessories manufacturer. It doesn’t hurt that Briley’s is located in Houston where I live. I’m pretty sure all the parts are available to them for repair work. .
 
Mossberg repairs SA-20’s in the USA. They may not want to sell parts to consumers but they have them here. I bought a SA-20 in 2010 or 2011. The bolt release button was way too stiff. Mossberg replaced it in Eagle Pass.

Benelli is notorious for being out of parts and accessories such as recoil pads. And when they are out they are out for long periods of time. When I was in the firearms business our Benelli rep told me that shipments come from Italy on a strict schedule and it isn’t real frequent. When I bought a Vinci I needed to shorten the LOP. They sell different thickness pads to do so. I had to wait nine months to get one. This is common.
 
Alright, so I am back to report that I was wrong about Mossberg selling parts for the SA-20. After waiting three days for a response, I received this reply...

Hi Nwcityguy2,
We have the parts available and can submit an order. Please call when ready and we will assist you. 203-230-5325.
Gas Piston $35.95, Extractor is $10.00 and the action spring would be $6.00.
Thank you


Sincerely,
Customer Service Team
O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc.

The number they gave me didn't do any good, as it immediately asked for an extension. I was able to call their regular customer service number and speak with the person who sent the email to me and purchase the parts.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
The number they gave me didn't do any good, as it immediately asked for an extension.
Click to expand...

I looked up Mossberg’s contact phone numbers on their website. It is one of their numbers because it is within the range of listed phone numbers on the website. When you called the number given to you it rolled over to their phone system’s default recording because even though Mossberg owns the number, it isn’t assigned to an extension. So there is a 99.9% chance the CS person who responded to you fat fingered the phone number when they were typing it. In addition even though you were calling a Newhaven CT exchange, the correct phone number if given to you, when called would have been answered in Texas. Mossberg has an IP phone system so they can assign phone numbers to any location they want since any call going to them is terminating over the internet instead of the PSTN(Public Switched Telephone Network). If the call was terminating over the PSTN then it would have to go to Connecticut. Mossberg could of course have the phone number call forwarded to Texas once it rings in Connecticut but that is highly unlikely since then there would be a toll charge on every call made to that number, unless Mossberg had a Point to Point pipe from Ct to TX. That scenario is also highly unlikely because space would be used up on phone calls that would be better used for transmitting data.

If anyone wanders how I know this it’s because I was in telecom for 25 years. I’m also bored right now so I figured I would bore everyone at THR.
 
Last edited:
cdb1 said:
I looked up Mossberg’s contact phone numbers on their website. It is one of their numbers because it is within the range of listed phone numbers on the website. When you called the number given to you it rolled over to their phone system’s default recording because even though Mossberg owns the number, it isn’t assigned to an extension. So there is a 99.9% chance the CS person who responded to you fat fingered the phone number when they were typing it. In addition even though you were calling a Newhaven CT exchange, the correct phone number if given to you, when called would have been answered in Texas. Mossberg has an IP phone system so they can assign phone numbers to any location they want since any call going to them is terminating over the internet instead of the PSTN(Public Switched Telephone Network). If the call was terminating over the PSTN then it would have to go to Connecticut.

If anyone wanders how I know this it’s because I was in telecom for 25 years. I’m also bored right now so I figured I would bore everyone at THR.
Click to expand...
I found it interesting. I didn't know you could have a "land line" phone number that wasn't part of the public switched system. I suppose that entire network is going the way of the dodo.
 
It is hard to explain but any “land line” phone number has to be part of the PSTN. Maybe not in the future but today yes. The reason is because of the call origination. Keeping Mossberg as the illustration: if you call them from a land line, the call will go over the PSTN for at least a portion of the distance, and possibly travel from the telephone Central Office in the originating city of the call all the way to the Central Office serving Mossberg’s location in New Haven.

You coined a new term - land line telephone number. I never thought of it that way because phone numbers assigned to cellular and phone numbers assigned to land lines both conform to the North American Numbering Plan: NPA-NXX.
 
Last edited:
George P said:
Sorry, that is not anywhere close to scientific; what it is, is a comparison between one that fits, and one that doesn't......
Click to expand...
No, you are wrong, In part, the movement of the bolt and gasses offset some of the recoil and spread it out over time making it feel softer. Peak recoil is actually less. So recoil is both reduced and spread out lessening the rearward acceleration of the entire shotgun in effect reducing felt recoil. It is a science.
 
The stuff technology can do with phone numbers. At my work (police dept), outgoing calls will always have a different last four digits assigned, making it impossible for people to directly call officers/detectives back without being told the correct numbers. Before that, we generally went to the juvenile section to call people we didn't want to speak with more than once.
 
d2wing said:
No, you are wrong, In part, the movement of the bolt and gasses offset some of the recoil and spread it out over time making it feel softer. Peak recoil is actually less. So recoil is both reduced and spread out lessening the rearward acceleration of the entire shotgun in effect reducing felt recoil. It is a science.
Click to expand...
The ACTUAL recoil is not the same as the PERCEIVED recoil; one is physics, the other is fit, pulse elongation, i.e. perception.
 
I came to El Paso fairly frequently in the 90’s and ate there a number of times. Haven’t been to the border in a long time but used to do business with Freight Forwarders and Custom House Brokers from Eagle Pass to El Paso. Half the time we were across the river. I don’t think I’d do that today.
 
Last edited:
George P said:
The ACTUAL recoil is not the same as the PERCEIVED recoil; one is physics, the other is fit, pulse elongation, i.e. perception.
Click to expand...
LOL. That can be the case. You have a valid point But you do not understand that recoil energy is reduced by a semi auto as well as a ported gun. Energy is used to unlock the action and move the bolt backwards, not only increasing the time of the recoil but using some of the energy by mechanical losses. Also in a gas gun there is rearward acceleration of gas. The action spring absorbs some of the recoil then adds it back but with more losses plus increasing the time of recoil. Also if force is spread over more time, peak force is reduced. But what you said about fit is also true. There are several factors that come into play. But in guns that are the same except in action type like an 870 vs a 1100 or 1187 that have the same fit, the differenceis very noticeable and why they are well liked as trap guns. The amount of force or recoil may be the same but some of that force is used up and also spread over time reducing both recoil and peak recoil. If you don't agree you can think what you want. Everyone else on here does. facts be darned.
 
d2wing said:
LOL. That can be the case. You have a valid point But you do not understand that recoil energy is reduced by a semi auto as well as a ported gun. Energy is used to unlock the action and move the bolt backwards, not only increasing the time of the recoil but using some of the energy by mechanical losses. Also in a gas gun there is rearward acceleration of gas. The action spring absorbs some of the recoil then adds it back but with more losses plus increasing the time of recoil. Also if force is spread over more time, peak force is reduced. But what you said about fit is also true. There are several factors that come into play. But in guns that are the same except in action type like an 870 vs a 1100 or 1187 that have the same fit, the differenceis very noticeable and why they are well liked as trap guns. The amount of force or recoil may be the same but some of that force is used up and also spread over time reducing both recoil and peak recoil. If you don't agree you can think what you want. Everyone else on here does. facts be darned.
Click to expand...

Well done.
 
d2wing said:
LOL. That can be the case. You have a valid point But you do not understand that recoil energy is reduced by a semi auto as well as a ported gun. Energy is used to unlock the action and move the bolt backwards, not only increasing the time of the recoil but using some of the energy by mechanical losses. Also in a gas gun there is rearward acceleration of gas. The action spring absorbs some of the recoil then adds it back but with more losses plus increasing the time of recoil. Also if force is spread over more time, peak force is reduced. But what you said about fit is also true. There are several factors that come into play. But in guns that are the same except in action type like an 870 vs a 1100 or 1187 that have the same fit, the differenceis very noticeable and why they are well liked as trap guns. The amount of force or recoil may be the same but some of that force is used up and also spread over time reducing both recoil and peak recoil. If you don't agree you can think what you want. Everyone else on here does. facts be darned.
Click to expand...
Recoil is not reduced by porting a shotgun, the peak forces are done before the payload gets to the barrel ports. It was supposed to help with muzzle flip, but that has been proven to so negligible, that porting is considered a gimmick on a shotgun. The actual recoil is still the same, you cannot defeat Newton. What a semi does is elongate the pulse through work and time as you described so it FEELS softer to the shooter (assuming the gun fits)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
RE: 12 or 20 gauge
Replies
7
Views
834
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
D
S
  • Locked
Lowest recoiling semiauto-shotgun & how compare to pumps?
2
Replies
47
Views
6K
Bruno2
B
JO JO
  • Locked
  • Poll
pump or semi shotgun
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
Sloppy joes
S
W
  • Locked
Semi-auto, less recoil?
Replies
18
Views
8K
oneounceload
O
BP Hunter
  • Locked
Mossberg 930C
Replies
1
Views
500
oneounceload
O
Back
Top