So what’s up with the guys in New Jersey?

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herrwalther said:
My closest friend lives in NJ. He did not have any high capacity magazines before the ban as they were too hard to already come by. Even his Xdm 45 has neutered magazines. He recently bought a house so all his firearms are at his parent's until the chief of police approves he can move them to his new home. Ridiculous state when it comes to the 2A.
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If I may, and if the mods will allow, can I suggest your friend join another forum (njgunforums.com) and post up the information he was told is lead to believe that does not allow him to have his legally owned firearms at his new residence, and why he feels they can be safely stored at his parents. I'd like to voice some thoughts on the above, but would like to obtain more information before doing so, so as to fully understand his situation.

He will find me there, as well as many other nj gun law knowledgeable individuals.

Waveski said:
Seriously? I had no idea of such a restriction. That is stunning.
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Please see above as well. I suspect there's a serious misunderstanding, or serious provision of misinformation going on to herrwalther's friend.
 
kmw1954 said:
I was hoping someone would address the question I asked in post #6 because I was serious and really do not know the answer.
Would some one passing thru the state be subject to arrest for having a restricted magazine? Or would they have to completely bypass that state and go around?
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While Federal law would seem to allow you to pass through the state of Armpit has a different view. If the standard capacity magazine was discovered you would be arrested, thrown in jail, and have to stand trial.

The same thing has happened to people who's planes have been diverted to airports in NYC and NJ.
 
Texas10mm said:
While Federal law would seem to allow you to pass through the state of Armpit has a different view. If the standard capacity magazine was discovered you would be arrested, thrown in jail, and have to stand trial.

The same thing has happened to people who's planes have been diverted to airports in NYC and NJ.
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Thank you for the response folks. Now I know to just stay out of the east coast or maybe just stay west of the Eastern Time Zone. Though I do have to deal with Illinois!
 
Waveski said:
Seriously? I had no idea of such a restriction. That is stunning.
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sota said:
If I may, and if the mods will allow, can I suggest your friend join another forum (njgunforums.com) and post up the information he was told is lead to believe that does not allow him to have his legally owned firearms at his new residence, and why he feels they can be safely stored at his parents. I'd like to voice some thoughts on the above, but would like to obtain more information before doing so, so as to fully understand his situation.

He will find me there, as well as many other nj gun law knowledgeable individuals.
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More background about my friend in NJ. He has a FID for both rifles and handguns, and has a few of both. He does not have a CCW permit as he does not have enough "need" to qualify for one in NJ. The address on his FID cards, and where his firearms are stored, is his parent's house. He is a newlywed and got married in May. They bought a house about 30 minutes or so away from his parent's. From what he has told me, he is not allowed to move his firearms to the new residence until he gets updated FID cards. If he was told wrong I will happily pass along the information to him as well as the forum website.
 
kmw1954 said:
Thank you for the response folks. Now I know to just stay out of the east coast or maybe just stay west of the Eastern Time Zone. Though I do have to deal with Illinois!
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Just be glad you don't LIVE in Illinois !! You are, however, much closer to "Shicago" than I am. And, to add "insult to injury", outgoing mayor Rahm is proposing a 20-30 cent increase in the gasoline tax to help pay for "infrastructure repairs". As proposed, over half of the statewide tax that is collected would go to "Shicago" and C(r)ook County. Not surprising considering the bloated whale who is our next governor.
 
AlexanderA said:
The question, then, is why the New Jersey residents want draconian gun control while Texas residents, say, don't want gun control. What is it about the culture of New Jersey and other ban states that makes gun control so popular?

Degree of urbanization? Lack of exposure to guns in socially-approved settings? If guns are associated only with (a) rural parts of the country, and (b) the criminal elements in cities, then the gun community is partly to blame by failing to show city dwellers that guns can be useful to them in legitimate ways.

I think that this lack of outreach may be a symptom of polarization and tribalism. Guns are increasingly seen -- even by gun owners themselves -- as a "red state" phenomenon. So the "blue states" are written off and the dichotomy feeds upon itself. We see this clearly in the NRA becoming an arm of the Republican party, and in turn being seen as an enemy by those on the left. It didn't use to be that way.
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In my opinion it is not that they want their freedoms taken away, it is too many people that never touched, held, or shot a gun are buying into the gun control lie. We all want to see suicide by gun prevented, murder and all other bad uses eliminated. The problem is over half of the voting public believe that by restricting law abiding citizens of their rights the bad guys will be prevented from getting and using guns to hurt people.
For most of us that defies all logic, if you do not know better it makes perfect sense.
 
JTHunter said:
Just be glad you don't LIVE in Illinois !! .
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Not to hijack this thread but I am only 5 minutes from the Illinois border, was raised and lived in McHenry County until early 80's and still have family in Illinois. At one time had an Illinois FIOD card. The reasons you mentioned are the reasons I left. Chicago has now pushed all the way to the state line.
 
herrwalther said:
More background about my friend in NJ. He has a FID for both rifles and handguns, and has a few of both. He does not have a CCW permit as he does not have enough "need" to qualify for one in NJ. The address on his FID cards, and where his firearms are stored, is his parent's house. He is a newlywed and got married in May. They bought a house about 30 minutes or so away from his parent's. From what he has told me, he is not allowed to move his firearms to the new residence until he gets updated FID cards. If he was told wrong I will happily pass along the information to him as well as the forum website.
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He was told wrong.

The FID is for purchasing handgun ammunition and long rifles, in the state. Said card is not needed for rifle or shotgun ammo. An FID has no bearing on his possession of a handgun. It is in fact perfectly legal to own a handgun WITHOUT the possession of an FID, and perfectly possible to purchase one, but practically no one ever does that.

The address on his FID has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on where he can store his firearms, as long as he is the only one who can gain access to said firearms (without a legal transfer occurring), and/or they are stored his primary place of residence, which would be determined by his driver's license.

Further he has no legal requirement to inform his new location's police force as to his possession of any firearms at his residence. Only if he intends to purchase any new handguns will he need to obtain a P2P for those specific handgun(s).
 
AlexanderA: Quite true about "navel gazing" etc among pro-Second Amendment people.

The obstacle is that tighter restrictions are passed soon After a mass tragedy involving young people.
It would require the most astute, brilliant powers of oratory and argument among pro-gun people on television to be persuasive about "pro AR 15 ownership" and "normal capacity" magazines, just days after a massacre involving these. If this pro-gun persuasion somehow were effective, the Mainstream Media would edit it just enough to distort, and weaken the persuasion.

When tv news is 'created' to elicit only emotional reactions after these events, no fact-based argument in opposition ever seems to penetrate the skulls of the masses, who aren't Able to be rational while repeatedly watching tv images of children running (as "Safety Officers" or ill-led LEOs crouch behind brick columns or cars).
 
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They will learn. Cut by cut, either make a stand or move out. I vote make a stand. This is a test for what they can get away with nationwide. They should not comply with such a law. Hiding them is plain stupid. It’s still an effective ban on an item that two weeks ago was legal. What good is a tool that cannot be used? To add insult to injury, you are either going to turn them in or become a felon or have them confiscated all because some politician decided they are no longer legal? They going to take your stuff without compensation for said items? Nope, not in my world. That’s stealing. What if you had $200k of stuff and overnight it was all illegal, then they decide you don't turn it over they will come and take it? No compensation, they are just going to round it up are you going to comply?

Like I said in another post, cut by cut, little by little. They went from what 30? Then it was 15 round max, then 10, now 7. If you think this is going to stop there then you are dreaming. It’s time to man up. There needs to be a mass show of force against this. No compliance. March on the capital with mags in hand. 3000 people plus. Hell there are people out of state willing to join you. I would be one of them if someone puts such a protest together. March, yell, burn stuff if you have to. It’s worked for the other side, why not for gun owners in NJ? Those of you who decide that it must be fought by writing your congress critters or whoever else will accept mail from you are delusional. Those tactics clearly aren’t working as your rights are constantly under scrutiny of being wiped away everyday and many times they seem to be going away little by little. Does that sound like a winning strategy to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? And no, I don’t recmonmend people run either. Everyone wants to do that and at some point you will run out of places to run. Man up and make your stand in NJ! Your local gun clubs should already be organizing a protest and fighting this crap. Hell there are people willing to bus magazines into the state, if need be. Haha. Either make the stand or give them up now because if you don’t fight this then your guns will be next. It may be a few years but it won’t be long.
 
460Shooter said:
Just a reality check type comment. I've seen many comments over the years about people needing to move out of overly restrictive states. While I don't disagree and I've made the same statements in the past, I no longer do. It's not always that simple.

Aging parents, infirm family members, spousal desires for family proximity, kids in school, duty location requirements of lifelong careers, financial obligation to a home that won't sell, or to business loans, and a whole host of other factors may limit a person's ability to move or relocate their families. Just move to a different state isn't always possible.
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I completely agree with what you're saying here. I think gun owners often dismiss the lunacy going on in other states, and look down on other gun owners who live in those states (with an attitude that "they'd move if they cared"). These gun owners often fail to realize how quickly the political landscape can change in their own state. Colorado, for instance, was a pretty red state just 15 years ago. Then we were a "swing" state. Now we're solid blue. Along with that transition has come an increasingly concerning attack on some of our civil liberties (such as gun rights).

Now, some people tell me that I should just up and move somewhere else. Well, that's easier said than done... it isn't like I haven't dreamt of the idea. This would have been easy to do 15+ years ago, but it isn't now. I have a wife and daughter in this state, and my wife's entire family is here. My career is here, and I worked hard to get to the point I'm at in my career (and wouldn't have an easy transition to just move to another state with my job). I own a house here, my friends are here, and I've simply built a life here.

The opposition has a majority in our politics, but that doesn't mean the state is entirely filled with morons... we have just enough for mob rule, but mob rule shouldn't override the constitutional rights enumerated in the founding documents of the republic in which we all live. In 2016 around 1.3 million Coloradans voted for the Democratic presidential candidate. Around 1.2 million people voted for the republican. By any measure the Democrat won by around 100,000 votes, but the "minority" party out here still represented 48% of votes cast.

What does all of this mean?

Well, to me it suggests that we can't move away from these problems. We need to start legally fighting these battles in the states in which we live. We can't just continue to give another inch, and another inch, all in the name of safety. There will never be enough gun control laws to keep the gun control lobby happy (at least not short of total disarmament).

As for the original question from this thread:

If I lived in NJ I would refuse to comply with this law. I believe such a measure to be unconstitutional, and I won't give up my rights, my freedom, or my property just because some bureaucrat tells me to do so. But, I'd probably stop keeping that property at my house, and find somewhere to cache those items for future use. I wouldn't want to get in trouble, but that doesn't mean they can have my stuff, either.
 
Ignition Override said:
The obstacle is that tighter restrictions are passed soon After a mass tragedy involving young people.
It would require the most astute, brilliant powers of oratory and argument among pro-gun people on television to be persuasive about "pro AR 15 ownership" and "normal capacity" magazines, just days after a massacre involving these. If this pro-gun persuasion somehow were effective, the Mainstream Media would edit it just enough to distort, and weaken the persuasion.
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It is too late to try to change people's minds about guns after a tragedy. What I was trying to say about engagement with urban people (as opposed to "navel gazing") was that we should try to condition them to be pro-gun before things like that happen. The emotional response to tragedy happens because people are already conditioned to be antigun. We see that in the difference in reactions to mass shootings in Texas, for example, compared to Connecticut. There were mass shootings recently in Texas, but they didn't immediately result in calls for more statewide gun restrictions.
 
coloradokevin said:
I completely agree with what you're saying here. I think gun owners often dismiss the lunacy going on in other states, and look down on other gun owners who live in those states (with an attitude that "they'd move if they cared"). These gun owners often fail to realize how quickly the political landscape can change in their own state. Colorado, for instance, was a pretty red state just 15 years ago. Then we were a "swing" state. Now we're solid blue. Along with that transition has come an increasingly concerning attack on some of our civil liberties (such as gun rights).

Now, some people tell me that I should just up and move somewhere else. Well, that's easier said than done... it isn't like I haven't dreamt of the idea. This would have been easy to do 15+ years ago, but it isn't now. I have a wife and daughter in this state, and my wife's entire family is here. My career is here, and I worked hard to get to the point I'm at in my career (and wouldn't have an easy transition to just move to another state with my job). I own a house here, my friends are here, and I've simply built a life here.

The opposition has a majority in our politics, but that doesn't mean the state is entirely filled with morons... we have just enough for mob rule, but mob rule shouldn't override the constitutional rights enumerated in the founding documents of the republic in which we all live. In 2016 around 1.3 million Coloradans voted for the Democratic presidential candidate. Around 1.2 million people voted for the republican. By any measure the Democrat won by around 100,000 votes, but the "minority" party out here still represented 48% of votes cast.

What does all of this mean?

Well, to me it suggests that we can't move away from these problems. We need to start legally fighting these battles in the states in which we live. We can't just continue to give another inch, and another inch, all in the name of safety. There will never be enough gun control laws to keep the gun control lobby happy (at least not short of total disarmament).

As for the original question from this thread:

If I lived in NJ I would refuse to comply with this law. I believe such a measure to be unconstitutional, and I won't give up my rights, my freedom, or my property just because some bureaucrat tells me to do so. But, I'd probably stop keeping that property at my house, and find somewhere to cache those items for future use. I wouldn't want to get in trouble, but that doesn't mean they can have my stuff, either.
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Yes. Your enemies new strategy with the help of Bloomberg and the likes financial backing is to pump previously red states with people and resources to turn them blue. All one has to do to figure this out is actually pay attention. It’s happening in a lot of states that were solid red just a few short years ago. Hell look at Alabama, Georgia and Texas. Those states have always been pretty much solid red and all of a sudden Cruz nearly lost to Beto, Doug Jones was elected in Bama and in GA just barely skated by. There is a strategy to this. All of these states that have gone from red to blue or red to purple just didn’t change overnight. We didn’t just all of a sudden have a couple hundred thousand far lefty Californians move to CO. There is a strategy to this and if you cannot see that then you are completely blind. The sad thing is, many of the people that know anything are older! I would guess that the majority of this board is 60-70’s. Yes that’s quite an assumption. I’m in my low 30’s but I seem to be a minority in many places of gun lovers. If we don’t start turning the tide soon, there might not be many of us here left to put up the good fight. Most of the younger generations are brainwashed.
 
SilentStalker: My 30 year-old son seems to get most or all of his news from his 'mobile device'. Maybe via Facebook, where he advertises his professional photography services.

We know which viewpoint is created by Silicon Valley. ****ist Brainwashing. It doesn't help that he married a lady from no. CA, although she is moderate and also has plenty of common sense. Luckily CA cities have become far too expensive and over-taxed, convincing them to remain here.

It's a real shame to not want to discuss any major domestic or international issues with your only child, because he will only quote talking points from whatever leftist news source.
 
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460Shooter said:
Wait, so now they shouldn't bother to vote either? I can not believe what I am hearing in this thread......................

How then are we supposed to overcome irrational and poorly thought out laws? Restrictive magazine laws serve no real purpose, and all one has to do is watch competitive shooters to know that an individual with a ten round magazine can inflict the same devastation as someone with a higher capacity magazine. All restrictions do is limit the law abiding citizens and gun owners, while the law breakers and nuts go merrily on their way. The ONLY two LEGAL ways to get those laws turned around in the country is to VOTE on candidates, to VOTE on ordinances, regulations, and laws, and to SUE when a law is overly restrictive and burdensome. That is why the legal branch of the NRA exists.

Why vote? Because not voting, extenuating circumstances aside, is the laziest and most apathetic stance someone in this country can take, and taking that stance is NOT making a statement, it's abdicating our ability to make a statement. It's the ONE personal say we get when it comes to public policy regarding laws, regulation, and choosing leaders.

I feel terrible for the folks who live in NJ. If I were one of them, and had higher capacity magazines, or any other item that became restricted AFTER I owned it already, I'd likely hide them away, tell no one, and vote at every possible chance and write my representatives explaining the issue repeatedly.
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When I lived in NYC I personally knew several people that were republican/conservative who felt voting was a waste of time since they did not stand a chance of winning.

I personally think blue state election results are skewed because of this happening.
 
CaptHank said:
The hassle of applying for a Permit to Purchase a handgun is a farce (90 days max, to clear), but it's their way of trying to discourage you of buying a handgun. I had to email my State Senator about the slow process in my area. The detective would hold my Permit until the last day. After that, 30 days was the normal. Also, you have to be finger printed each time you apply. All of that added cost, going to local police department.
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Back when I lived in NYC I had the Target handgun permit. It was supposed to take 90 days but it took 11 months for it to be approved. I could never get a straight answer from the permit dept as to why it was taking so long. I did find out one detective working on it retired and another went on leave. So I guess it just sat on desk gathering dust.

Coincidentally, it took over a year to get my FL ccw due to a bunch of problems beyond my control, and I had to pay all the fees twice to finally get it.
 
SilentStalker said:
Yes. Your enemies new strategy with the help of Bloomberg and the likes financial backing is to pump previously red states with people and resources to turn them blue. All one has to do to figure this out is actually pay attention. It’s happening in a lot of states that were solid red just a few short years ago. Hell look at Alabama, Georgia and Texas. Those states have always been pretty much solid red and all of a sudden Cruz nearly lost to Beto, Doug Jones was elected in Bama and in GA just barely skated by. There is a strategy to this. All of these states that have gone from red to blue or red to purple just didn’t change overnight. We didn’t just all of a sudden have a couple hundred thousand far lefty Californians move to CO. There is a strategy to this and if you cannot see that then you are completely blind. The sad thing is, many of the people that know anything are older! I would guess that the majority of this board is 60-70’s. Yes that’s quite an assumption. I’m in my low 30’s but I seem to be a minority in many places of gun lovers. If we don’t start turning the tide soon, there might not be many of us here left to put up the good fight. Most of the younger generations are brainwashed.
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Don't worry, I'm in my late thirties, and my wife is in her mid-thirties. There are plenty of us here who will be around for quite a while still :)
 
SilentStalker said:
Yes. Your enemies new strategy with the help of Bloomberg and the likes financial backing is to pump previously red states with people and resources to turn them blue. All one has to do to figure this out is actually pay attention. It’s happening in a lot of states that were solid red just a few short years ago. Hell look at Alabama, Georgia and Texas. Those states have always been pretty much solid red and all of a sudden Cruz nearly lost to Beto, Doug Jones was elected in Bama and in GA just barely skated by. There is a strategy to this. All of these states that have gone from red to blue or red to purple just didn’t change overnight. We didn’t just all of a sudden have a couple hundred thousand far lefty Californians move to CO. There is a strategy to this and if you cannot see that then you are completely blind. The sad thing is, many of the people that know anything are older! I would guess that the majority of this board is 60-70’s. Yes that’s quite an assumption. I’m in my low 30’s but I seem to be a minority in many places of gun lovers. If we don’t start turning the tide soon, there might not be many of us here left to put up the good fight. Most of the younger generations are brainwashed.
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Trust me Doug Jones did NOT get in because Alabama is going blue, he got in because: ROY MOORE. Moore was a lousy candidate and republican voters stayed home in droves. Jones is in for one, then he's DONE.
In addition, the Alabama Democrat party is in terrible shape.

Your points regarding others states remain valid, however.....
 
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Guitarmike said:
In my opinion it is not that they want their freedoms taken away, it is too many people that never touched, held, or shot a gun are buying into the gun control lie. We all want to see suicide by gun prevented, murder and all other bad uses eliminated. The problem is over half of the voting public believe that by restricting law abiding citizens of their rights the bad guys will be prevented from getting and using guns to hurt people.
For most of us that defies all logic, if you do not know better it makes perfect sense.
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To accomplish this all guns would have to be taken away from hands of the public. It's hard to believe some people are that stupid.
 
It's hard to believe some people are that stupid.
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Yup, well, PT Barnum and HL Mencken made a lot of hay betting against your point of view...
 
Tommygunn said:
Trust me Doug Jones did NOT get in because Alabama is going blue, he got in because: ROY MOORE. Moore was a lousy candidate and republican voters stayed home in droves. Jones is in for one, then he's DONE.
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That's right. The conventional wisdom is that Jones is going to lose in 2020. That means that the Democrats must pick up at least 4 seats to win control of the Senate. They might just do it, assuming that there's an anti-Trump tidal wave.
 
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