full-size DA/SA options?

Sort of off-topic, but I've been accumulating 9mm DA/SA metal guns, and I like every one that I have. They each have their own charm, even the clunkers...


CZ 75 (2x)
Sig P226
Beretta 92FS
Daewoo DP 51
Beretta 92S
Star 30MI
S&W 915
CZ 99 (Zastava)
PHP MV9

I have a couple 5906's added in this Christmas, rounded trigger guards and Novak sights. 1 is ready to wrap, the other waiting to ship.

Of all these, about the only one I wouldn't trust is the PHP MV9. The rest have been reliable. The PHP actually has, too, but some parts look so fragile, and it's SO obscure you'd never find a part. But as part of the group, I like having it. The slide release and takedown levers literally look like they were made out of folded tinfoil pressed together in a vise, and then allowed to discolor to match the brownish "bluing".

Tallball said:

For something cheap, the Ruger P series are out of production, but I bought three used ones recently that were incredibly cheap and are reliable.

Click to expand...

I've considered getting a Ruger "just because" for awhile, but haven't been able to hit the price I want. No offense to Ruger, but I'm not paying the same price I did for my Berettas etc.

In response to Isudave...

I forgot to mention the S&W third generation pistols. Coincidentally, I also have a S&W 915. I think I got it from Gary Cole's place (CDI Sales?) before it closed. I think mine was just a little over $200. It's a very nice shooter. It's the largest pistol that I have that I would consider carrying. I have a nice rig for it, and I may have carried it once or twice.

I like the Ruger P series better than I expected to. I just got back from the range. I ran a box of 9mm through my P89 to test some new-to-me magazines (thanks G!). I had a few fliers out of the first mag as I adjusted from the pistol I had been shooting previously. The rest of them went into a hole the size of my fist. It was only seven yards and I am a mediocre shooter at best, but that is pretty good for me. If you haunt Gunbroker for a while you can probably find one for $150-$200 no problem. They are kind of big and "clunky", but I am very pleased with mine.

I noticed that the TSO isn't up on CZ's website any more?

As mentioned if you have large hands this one is a top choice and a personal favorite of mine among DA 9mm pistols.

I have a few I like, though I prefer striker fired. But right now I can get a police trade in 226 in .40 for 389 with night sights. Mine look nearly new. So I'd go with that. If you can use a 40 there are some really good deals around the trade in market online from hk glock smith or sig.

ETA. I agree that the 3-400 dollar price of the p series that ive seen compared to the 299 to 400 for higher end guns in the trade in market makes it less attractive. I will say they are well built and I have a p97 (45) that is more accurate than my sig 220 or hk (both very accurate arms). I've shot others (89, 90 94 and 97s) that weren't but mine cant be the exception I'm sure.

For DA/SA, I'm a Sig guy, though I daily carry a Walther P99 which is a striker fired DA/SA and it's pretty frekin sweet. No particular order of things to look at would be Sig P226 or P220; HK USP, HK 45, or P30L; or the Sphinx SDP Alpha (CZ 75 type gun, but with a decocking lever).

CZ is probably the most copied model out there. The Lionheart's are hard to find in stock from where I have looked but a really fine gun. Tristar's are out there, another CZ clone. I know it's not a long sight radius but I carry a SA XDE in 9mm and is DA/SA and a nice size gun. Go to a range that rents them and try different guns.

I don't care for DA pistols due to the transitional trigger modes. That said, of all I have used over the years, I prefer the HK's (USP and similar) and the older Sigs (226/228/229).

Zerodefect said:

I noticed that the TSO isn't up on CZ's website any more?

Click to expand...

Yes it is.

Zerodefect said:

I noticed that the TSO isn't up on CZ's website any more?

Click to expand...

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-tactical-sport-orange/

Not a DA/SA, of course.

I like Sigs but recognize they cost a bit.

I would look to CZ SP-01 or 75.

My vote is for SIG P226 or P220.

But any quality DA/SA as long as it does not have any kind of manual safety is good.

My only DA/SA double-stack is a P95, which is not in the OP's running at all, so I wasn't inclined to even post in this thread.

But, I do like an all-steel DA/SA handgun, and all you guys with your CZ-75 ones are pushing that closer to the top of my "next-need" list...

If you are looking for a lower cost da/sa Sig, you can also look at the Sig SP2022, though I believe they are a little smaller than a full size P model.

Check out the P226 Legion if you haven't. Trigger is really, really good. Ergos are amazing.

CZ75 is my choice but I'm no expert.

If you want to spend a grand on a legion then by all means do, I may or may not and they are great guns . But you could buy a used 226 for 400 send it to grayguns (who did the good legion triggers) then buy the cz and spend about the same money for two guns. I actually bought new 22x guns for 800+ bucks a few years ago, I just got a 220 for 450. And a couple 226s for 389. And both look new with night sights. If your one who don't buy used things then disregard completely. Just saying that new guns are the same price as always. Used are half what they were 10 years ago.
Of course you wouldn't get a "challenge coin" nor would you get access to the "legion only club" . You also couldn't buy the "legion only humidor". I have quite a few sigs, I won't part with mine. Hell I liked sig. But the legion thing has turned my stomach a little. If the ergos are worth so much and such an improvement why not set the machines up and do them all that way? At least if Gaston thinks something is a great improvement everyone gets it from then on..... like it or not! (I actually prefer the finger grooves so it's used for me from now on) but there is no high brow "club". That said, I would have expected such nonsense from HK.

crestoncowboy said:

If you want to spend a grand on a legion then by all means do, I may or may not and they are great guns . But you could buy a used 226 for 400 send it to grayguns (who did the good legion triggers) then buy the cz and spend about the same money for two guns. I actually bought new 22x guns for 800+ bucks a few years ago, I just got a 220 for 450. And a couple 226s for 389. And both look new with night sights. If your one who don't buy used things then disregard completely. Just saying that new guns are the same price as always. Used are half what they were 10 years ago.
Of course you wouldn't get a "challenge coin" nor would you get access to the "legion only club" . You also couldn't buy the "legion only humidor". I have quite a few sigs, I won't part with mine. Hell I liked sig. But the legion thing has turned my stomach a little. If the ergos are worth so much and such an improvement why not set the machines up and do them all that way? At least if Gaston thinks something is a great improvement everyone gets it from then on..... like it or not! (I actually prefer the finger grooves so it's used for me from now on) but there is no high brow "club". That said, I would have expected such nonsense from HK.

Click to expand...

Beavertail and undercut trigger guard are the reason I went Legion and I dont at all regret. Makes the gun go from feeling "meh" to fantastic in my hands.

I like the Elite fine too, but the longer beavertail is a bit too much for me, so the Legion is the sweet spot for me. The flat trigger on my SAO is fantastic as well compared to a standard curved one though I believe grayguns offers a flat trigger kit too now, so that's great.

I personally dont care at all for all the rest of the crap the Legion offers. Heck, they sent me the coin and case for a 229 (I have a 226) but whatever, its in the case pile int he basement collecting dust anyway.

WHAT, no knife or "sig legionnaire" humidor... heresy.
But I agree, and I think the guns are great. I'm not impressed that they basically make their other versions less comfortable knowingly so that people will pay more for the undercutting and such even though it's done by machine and could be done to all of them for pennies per gun when averaged out if they changed forms. Hand fitting, polishing, bluing instead of cerakote etc., hand engraving or checkering I will, and do, pay extra for. Those things cost extra. Most companies would have a gen xxx and make all their guns feel better in the hand. As far the trigger, action, and polishing, I'll pay for that but from what I've read the newer legions have a sig trigger rather than the excellent grayguns work. Ive not found one myself but I've read it in enough places to believe it.
That said I think the legion may very well be worth the difference if your buying new. 800 vs 1200. But when you can get a like new one for 400 I think it's worth considering, send it and have all the upgrades and still be able to buy ammo or another gun unless you just hate owning used, which few gun owners are. You miss out on a great number of the nicest ones no longer made.
As far as the ops question though, the cz, beretta, sig, hk etc are all fine guns. Ergonomics are subjective but if you have average or larger hands I doubt you would find either uncomfortable. Of all my guns the beretta 96s I have feel best in my hand. Their triggers are worse than any of the others (but can be fixed) and the 11 rd capacity sucks (unless u live in a 10 rd area). If a family member asked my recommendation I'd let them shoot them all and decide. They are close enough that I wouldnt even rank them. That said I normally carry a glock. But I do occasionally carry a 226. The others are safe/ range toys

Grayguns never did any work on production Legions. There is no hand-fitting or hand-tuning of any type done on stock Legion pistols. SIG Legions did come with the Grayguns P-SAIT trigger although more recently I have read that SIG is now using a MIM "Grayguns inspired" trigger that might not have the over-travel stop of the P-SAIT trigger.

Legion DA/SA pistols also come with the short reset trigger kit (SRT) which is a modified sear and safety lever. The P-SAIT trigger and SRT can be added to any P226 or P229 DA/SA pistol, as can the SIG X-Ray sights and G-10 grips functionally identical to those that come on the Legion.

I personally prefer the standard size grip tang of the stock Nitron SIG P229 to the attenuated beavertail of the Legion although others feel differently. I also prefer the Nitron finish to the grey PVD finish of the Legions which some Legion owners have complained is not terribly durable and sometimes uneven. I also prefer the regular-sized slide stop and decocker levers (especially the former) to the miniaturized control levers of the Legion.

Some feel the frame and slide variations of the Legion pistols enhance their ergonomics. These include front cocking serrations on the slide, some vertical checkering on the front strap of the grip, checkering on the underside of the trigger guard, and frame relief at the rear end of the trigger guard. Personally, I care nothing for checkering on the underside of the trigger guard or cocking serrations at the front of the slide. I thought that the frame relief at the rear of the trigger guard might make a substantial difference, but for me when I shot the Legion P229 back to back with my P229s, I really couldn't appreciate any enhancement in comfort or control.

pblanc said:

when I shot the Legion P229 back to back with my P229s, I really couldn't appreciate any enhancement in comfort or control.

Click to expand...

I had similar results when I compared the Legion 229 to my 229 with SRT, felt better but didnt really shoot better side by side.

The SAO 226 though.... well, that's a different story. I had considered finding an Elite SAO, but those were hard to find at the time and my patience wore thin.

I do find the 226 fits my hands better than the 229 in the "base" nitron models, and the 220 better yet, especially with thinner G10 grips. But the Legions fit me best, better than anything other than a 1911.

I'm pretty much with Creston on this one. My Sig P229 was a police trade-in that I won for a $285 bid on Gunbroker. It feels wonderful in my hand and it's a great shooter. The trigger is very nice. Everyone who shoots it likes it a lot. My FiL is a cheapskate like me, but after he shot it the bug set in and I know he will buy one for himself eventually.

For me personally, spending four times as much just isn't going to get me a pistol that's four times as good. It might be better, but I think that the diminishing returns thing would kick in very quickly. I would much rather spend the extra $700+ on some other pistols!

I wasn't saying there was any hand fitting on the legion. I was saying fitting, checkering, engraving, those things can run up the price considerably on any gun.
I was simply saying you could get the same trigger, relief cuts, etc from grayguns. Cheaper.
I also wasn't bashing the gun at all. Just giving options.

If sticking with 9mm, I have a preference for the Beretta 92fs line. The caveat there is that I’ve heard of some quality control issues with late model American made versions. Some say it’s the move to the new plant in Tennessee, but I had a Maryland version made in 2013 that was slightly less than perfect.
If going with a .40 or 357 Sig, the P226 is fantastic. I have a recent production example with both barrels that is very controllable in rapid fire, very accurate and 100% reliable after a couple thousand rounds. I also have an older P229 in .40 that has been perfect, but the OP said he liked the longer sight radius. I’ve found the 229 doesn’t carry any better than the 226, anyway.