More ethical/fair chase still hunting or stand?

Here's a twist: Who is the more ethical hunter, the private land hunter who implements conservation practices year around or the public land hunter who just picks up a rifle and hits the woods but hasn't done a thing for conservation beyond buying a license? Hmmmm?

All these threads prove is that everyone believes their way is the only way. Criticizing other hunters isn't a good thing, people.

What about dogs? Some states down south chase deer with dogs. I say go for it if it's legal so long as you follow limits and other restrictions under the law. Never done it myself, not legal for deer in Texas. Only thing I've hunted with dogs is rabbits and birds (my lab retrieves 'em). I have been on a couple of pig hunts with dogs when I was younger and could get around a might better. Stomping through rice fields at 2AM is not for the infirm. The guy that owned the dogs didn't want firearms around 'em. We stuck 'em with knives.

Moral principles of killing things. I have thought about this off and on over the years and decided I am all over the place on the subject.

I have let some animals keep living just because I enjoyed looking at them or didn’t feel like cutting them up at the time. Others I leave out poison so they can eat it and go die somewhere a lot slower than if I had just shot them.

I started hunting after moving out West where things like feeders, and stands (more actually a ground blind as there were no trees) would get you arrested, your gun and truck confiscated and you'd face jail, fines and a loss of hunting privileges. Tree stand hunting I call "deer waiting" especially if you are also baiting them in with a feeder or food plot. Fair chase means you go after them, not entice them in. Does it make it harder? Absolutely. Is it more ethical? IMO, yes, there is a difference between "hunting" and "killing", just as here is a difference between "fishing" and "catching". Sometimes you win, sometimes the deer do. I also never understood this hunting with dogs; getting the deer scared, making them have an adrenaline dump, and then running for their lives, has always made the meat taste terrible.
That said, if it's legal and your thing, have at it; I won't fight to stop it. It's just not my thing, and probably why I haven't bothered deer hunting since moving back East (Or course, I never understood sitting out on a frozen lake when it's 20 below ice fishing either..........)

rpenmanparker said:

I would just never call a bank robber unethical.

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Wow. Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

There are many fine lines about ethical hunting discussed on this forum, notably on what cartridge is big enough and discussions on long range shooting. There are differing opinions, but at the end of the day, if something is legal in your state, its hard to condemn someone for doing it.

I get the idea that the basis for hunting is to harvest meat, but it is also a sport that has a rulebook (game laws), safety considerations, and other traditions. I would never feel satisfaction or pride in a game animal that I killed while blatantly breaking the law or doing something unsafe.

Laphroaig said:

Wow. Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

There are many fine lines about ethical hunting discussed on this forum, notably on what cartridge is big enough and discussions on long range shooting. There are differing opinions, but at the end of the day, if something is legal in your state, its hard to condemn someone for doing it.

I get the idea that the basis for hunting is to harvest meat, but it is also a sport that has a rulebook (game laws), safety considerations, and other traditions. I would never feel satisfaction or pride in a game animal that I killed while blatantly breaking the law or doing something unsafe.

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I think you are missing that I agree with this.

So long as it's legal, I won't let my freezer go empty. I won't force my Texas ethics on Coloradans, either, and expect the reciprocal.

For me, it comes down to what I can live with.

I don't set ethical standards for other people, but I do for myself.

I could never ever dream of shooting at an animal over 300 yards away, or using a dog, or bait or a feeder. But that's my code of ethics. I don't try to force it on other people.

What a lot of people don't understand about dog hunting , it's is not all about killing a deer for most of us , especially us older folks . It's as much about hearing the dog chase , same as rabbit , and coon hunting , just to name a few . If you didn't grow up doing it , you probably don't understand , it's heritage and tradition . Anyone that thinks the meat doesn't taste good , surely hasn't tasted my sisters fried backstrap .

The club that I belong to at one time would not let you shoot does . The DGIF wanted us to kill them because of the large population in that area and gave us damage stamps , so we could kill more than what your license allows . The president of our club still didn't allow it . Then after the hunting season was over the game wardens spotlighted them at night and killed hundreds of them .

I have my own rabbit beagles and I run them 12 months out of the year . A pack of beagles running a rabbit or a pack of hounds running deer is music to my ears . My nephew and I went rabbit hunting yesterday and the dogs ran one rabbit over 2 hours and the rabbit won . I saw it 3 times and my nephew pulled the trigger on it , but his gun misfired .

I can see how private land owners could get upset if and when the dogs cross on to their property . I don't rabbit hunt on my property on Saturdays during deer season because of this . I have had deer dogs come on to my property while my dogs were running a rabbit and mess the hunt up more than once . But I understand , I am in the country and this is a way of life and it has been going on before even my great granddad was born . For me to complain it would be like the city person moving beside a farm and complaining about the smell .

Thinking of driving deer with dogs, I recall hearing how sometimes the deer figure out how and get behind the dogs, too.

About 20yrs back, I was leaning on a tree up the hill here behind the house. I was on crutches at the time, point being I was slowed down and they're not really quiet. Well, this happened kinda later in the evening, but not getting dark yet. I slung my rifle, got the crutches under me, and as I turned to head back to the house, I looked up and here comes a youngish basket-rack 6pt... he came bouncing across my Granddaddy's backyard from 150yds and stopped within 10yds of me. The buck looked back and so did I... here comes a neighbor's two dogs. They weren't hunting dogs... they were more the annoying type. The buck and I looked at each other, back at the dogs, back at each other, and then the buck turned and left. He knew what he was doing.

A while back, after the thread here about the girl who ticked off those Scottish politicians and fakebook nuts, I saw an article about deer hunting in the U.K. and Ireland. The U.K. bans archery for deer. But, the Brits and the Irish have clubs where they pen-raise deer, turn them loose to run the dogs, and capture them alive to do it again next weekend.

The people who only use iron sights, a bow or muzzleloader, want an excuse not to take the shot so they don't have to quit hunting for the year.
Sometimes it's not about killing a deer.
I personally hunt from an elevated stand, blind, lean against a tree or hide in a brush pile.
I have killed as many deer wandering around as I have sitting in a stand.
I have seen more deer walking, bye have had more good shot opportunities sitting.

OK, you're hunting and a buddy a couple hundreds yards away texts you, says a deer ran across the field and is coming to your side of the woods.
Is that unethical?
IIRC that would be against B&C fair chase rules.
In some places cell/radio communication between hunters in aid of taking game is illegal.

I personally do not use game cameras.
Don't care if other people do.
Have used geographical photos to check out adjacent places.........the big woods across from us, way out in a big field...........has a pond in it.
Buddy grew up out there, and never knew it. Thought the deer would come to our creek to drink.
Gov satellite imagery says "nope".
Interesting discovery.........but of zero impact really.

cheygriz said:

I don't set ethical standards for other people, but I do for myself.

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I pretty much agree with that, but tend to avoid hunting/fishing with folks whose ethics don't mirror mine. We as hunters, for the most part here in the lower 48, are the minority. The reason we still have the privilege of hunting is not because there's more of us than there are antis, but because the majority of folks that don't hunt, are neutral about hunting. They know that populations need to be controlled and they realize the reason we have most game animals around, is because of hunters. Some of them even make money off us. To most of them, hunters have a positive image. Slob hunters(read as unethical) that leave trash in the woods, take poor percentage shots resulting in wounded game staggering into folk's back yards, and don't respect landowners and other fellow hunters, present a negative image and endanger all of our hunting privileges. Most of the private land around here that can't be hunted is because at one point, a slob hunter pissed off the landowner.

Hookeye said:

OK, you're hunting and a buddy a couple hundreds yards away texts you, says a deer ran across the field and is coming to your side of the woods.
Is that unethical?
IIRC that would be against B&C fair chase rules.
In some places cell/radio communication between hunters in aid of taking game is illegal.

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Okay, let's say during a spring or early summer you see a huge buck in your... bean field, food plot, backyard, whatever... and a couple of months later, some other guy in your circles... not really a hunting buddy... who lives pretty close by sees him. Now, for the rest of the summer and half the fall, you have to listen to this guy talk about how he wants to shoot that particular buck. Come November, you're in your preferred spot and here comes this huge buck you've watched for the last few months. Are you going to shoot this buck, or take out your cell phone and call the clown and let him know he's there? And, in a lot of cases, you can figure the other guy wouldn't have called you.

We're talking about a public animal on private property. We don't personally own the animal until we get it on the ground and get our hands on it.

As for B&C, how many of us hunt to impress them?

buck460XVR said:

Slob hunters(read as unethical) that leave trash in the woods, take poor percentage shots resulting in wounded game staggering into folk's back yards, and don't respect landowners and other fellow hunters, present a negative image and endanger all of our hunting privileges. Most of the private land around here that can't be hunted is because at one point, a slob hunter pissed off the landowner.

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This reminds me of the Hunter Ed class I was in. The game wardens were talking about "slob hunters" being the ones shooting up the road signs, which then costs the taxpayers to replace every year. I'll agree those are slobs, but shooting road signs has nothing to do with hunting (the pursuit and taking of game). No, these particular slobs are engaging in vandalism.

Those same game wardens wanted to drive home the view that hunting is a privelige and that effectively no such right exists. If we look at history, hunting goes with the territory of the inalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. However, if we fail to manage game and habitat and lose the resource, as well as failure in relations between hunters and the general public and landowners, any debate concerning rights and priveliges becomes a moot point.

I'm primarily a bow hunter. 90% of the time I use a climber. Have a couple ladder stands set up also. These tactics work well in the places I hunt. No baiting or dogs allowed. With the occasional day out with the shotgun or muzzleloader, I may do some still hunting and tracking.
I don't care how others do their hunting. Stay within the law and use whatever tools and tactics you want.

CRB357 said:

Yeah! It’s a weird strange place in our heads!!! I crush insects in my house and never think twice about it. Yet when I pick up a gun, all of a sudden my moral compass starts working and I feel like I have a responsibility to conduct myself in a way that I’m comfortable with.

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Sometimes that doesn’t matter to me. My chickens start to become dinner for something and I catch it, it’s going to be buzzard bait. Hogs tear up a hay meadow, they get the same, except I’ll eat a little more hog than coon, possum or coyote. What are the ethics in preserving your food source?

Hunting with dogs dates back well before Christ. You want an ethics explosion? Talk to a fly fisherman about folks who use worms or lures in "his" trout stream.

How we hunt varies with terrain and vegetation. Ethics in large part is the self-control for obeying the rules and staying within the capability of your skill and your gear. You can do that without being against the way other folks hunt in other places. "Different" is not unethical.

We take it for granted that hunters will use decoys for dove, ducks, geese and turkeys. What's the difference between food-bait and date-bait?

Where I live stand hunting is fine. Hunting over bait or feed deer is very illegal. Considered unethical here. Stalking is very fun and challenging but may not work in crowded or fenced areas.

Ive had luck with game cameras, right here in Noorvik.

Gasoline is about the only thing here that gets stolen, usually by teens.

My camera caught the neighbor girl , so "hunted her down' and her parents taught her some Ethics......LOL!!

Ethics are just moral principles, you don’t have to look very far to see that they differ from person to person. Even in your town or village no matter how small.

It’s a lot easier to define honesty or even integrity, they are not a moving target, unless your a politician.

mustanger98 said:

This reminds me of the Hunter Ed class I was in. The game wardens were talking about "slob hunters" being the ones shooting up the road signs, which then costs the taxpayers to replace every year. I'll agree those are slobs, but shooting road signs has nothing to do with hunting (the pursuit and taking of game). No, these particular slobs are engaging in vandalism.

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Vandalism that can be identified and traced back to hunters....generally while hunting(and the pursuit and taking of game). What is it folks want to separate? Vandalism is a crime too when you damage other's property. We as hunters are stewards and representatives of our sport. How we present ourselves reflects on all hunters and our sport. Our ethics in the sport do not start or stop, once there is hair in the cross-hairs. Camo and blaze orange is our uniform and how we act when wearing that uniform affects how others perceive us, even when we are not in the field. Wanting to deny it, just shows one is out of touch with reality.

mustanger98 said:

Those same game wardens wanted to drive home the view that hunting is a privilege and that effectively no such right exists. If we look at history, hunting goes with the territory of the inalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

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The chastising of the game wardens statements makes me sense a dislike of game wardens. In my experience, this either comes from someone with a dislike of following the rules, or someone who has had a bad experience with wardens. In the case of the latter, folks identify their previous negative experience with every other warden experience because of the uniform. This is where I was coming from in my above statement. As for hunting being a right, it has been declared that by many state amendments to their constitutions. While it guarantees us we can hunt, it doesn't guarantee any of us a place to hunt. Negative examples of hunting and shooting does not just close opportunities on private land.

Jmorris,

Not to disagree, but to expand your definition.

I've always considered ethics a code of conduct.

It is both a personal and community code.