CZ Owners
- Thread starter TarDevil
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Toprudder
Member
Cocked and locked. I am not opposed to having the hammer decocked, but if the gun does not have a decocker I do not think it is a good idea to try to lower the hammer with a live round in the chamber. I know you can lower the hammer with a thumb under the hammer, but I still think there is a risk in doing so. JMHO.
Zaydok Allen
Member
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- Feb 12, 2011
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I agree with Toprudder. That being said, I prefer carrying a DA/SA gun with the hammer down.
Not unfair. I defined the parameters for B models.
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ClickClickD'oh
Member
Needs option 3, "Half Cock"
Ignition Override
Member
Won't just a very tiny percentage of Legal handgun carriers ever be in a situation where they are actually threatened with serious bodily harm, and can See an aggressor approaching? Thugs sometimes use people as distractions
("Sir, got any spare change?) or blindspots.
Among those who suddenly see a threat, do many actually realize that they will Already have a gun aimed at them from about 2-3 feet away (an armed club member faced three guys and a shotgun in his driveway...he didn't want to be a dead hero)? The smarter victims facing a gun -who have common sense- aren't going to reach for anything.
And if a threat is suddenly/quickly sneaking around a nearby car or corner of a bldg. with a knife or other metal tool in their hands, how does a "cocked and locked" gun, even assuming years of training, give them an advantage? Many attackers aren't some overweight "huffing/puffing" bubba. They are often as quick and quiet as a young cat.
The issues seem to be finger discipline and confidence, regarding DA/SA guns having decockers.
("Sir, got any spare change?) or blindspots.
Among those who suddenly see a threat, do many actually realize that they will Already have a gun aimed at them from about 2-3 feet away (an armed club member faced three guys and a shotgun in his driveway...he didn't want to be a dead hero)? The smarter victims facing a gun -who have common sense- aren't going to reach for anything.
And if a threat is suddenly/quickly sneaking around a nearby car or corner of a bldg. with a knife or other metal tool in their hands, how does a "cocked and locked" gun, even assuming years of training, give them an advantage? Many attackers aren't some overweight "huffing/puffing" bubba. They are often as quick and quiet as a young cat.
The issues seem to be finger discipline and confidence, regarding DA/SA guns having decockers.
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Hammer down, the location and shape of the safety on my 75B would make it impossible for me to carry cocked and locked. I can't disengage it after presentation from a holster, my thumb just slides past it. IMO it's too far forward and too rounded to be of use in a carry mode.YMMV
If I was to get a CZ to carry, I'd go for a P-01 with the decocker.
If I was to get a CZ to carry, I'd go for a P-01 with the decocker.
Scenarios and theory are one thing. Justification another.
I'm just asking... how do CZ OWNERS actuality utilize their guns.
gotboostvr
Member
Once I realized I was only ever going to use it C&L'd I decided I might as well get a SA and all the extra touches they get over the regular B models.
My vote goes for C&L, as that's how I'd use a SP101, 75B, 85Combat, P01 Omega or the aforementioned 97B.
My vote goes for C&L, as that's how I'd use a SP101, 75B, 85Combat, P01 Omega or the aforementioned 97B.
This is another good option as it reduces the trigger pull length and is a very functional option. I simply prefer cocked and locked. I guess I don't understand the need to decock manually, that's why you have the safety. If I need to decock the pistol, I remove the magazine, take off safe, eject the chamber round, and then manually decock.
CZ is an excellent handgun to carry in "condition one".
ROCK6
needmorecowbell
Member
My 75b is hammer down (1/2 cocked) with no safety on so same as my decocker P01 and Phantom.
armoredman
Member
CZ pistols are meant to be carried at the half cock notch, which is where all of my hammer fired CZs have been set when riding on my side.
kBob
Member
Armored man is correct.
Oddly enough the original CZ75 (not your Johnny come lately CZ75B) manual recommended carrying at half cock. Does give a lighter and smoother DA pull, but ….half cock.
I did carry it that way, and liked it, but as my main carry was a 1911 type, went to Cocked and Locked first time I drew the Colt and just squeezed and of course nothing happened.
-kBob
Oddly enough the original CZ75 (not your Johnny come lately CZ75B) manual recommended carrying at half cock. Does give a lighter and smoother DA pull, but ….half cock.
I did carry it that way, and liked it, but as my main carry was a 1911 type, went to Cocked and Locked first time I drew the Colt and just squeezed and of course nothing happened.
-kBob
Walt Sherrill
Member
Armoredman is only PARTLY correct. He made that same statement on another forum. It is certainly safe to do this with a safety-equipped CZ, but it's wrong to say these pistols "are meant to be carried on the half-cock notch."
The CZ decocker models are designed so that they DECOCK TO and START FROM the half-cock notch, as do a number of other guns on the market. (These models can also be started form the fully-hammer down position, and decocked there,too, but it would make no sense to do so.) You can also lower the hammer of Safety-equipped models when decocking and start from that position SAFELY. But the point remains: there wasn't even a decocker model available until YEARS AFTER the half cock notch/safety stop was added to the original 75 design.. (My first pre-B, one of the earliest ones -- but not a short-rail version -- did not have the half-cock notch; all later model CZs did.)
The half cock notch, when it was first introduced, was not meant to be a carry/starting position. It wasn't even intended as a decocked position. CZ, in one of the old manuals I've got stashed away (downloaded from CZUB years ago and dated 11/21/01) addresses all models then available, including decocker models (75 BD, 75 Police, 75 D and 75 SemiCompact) as well as a 75 (non-B) model that did not have a firing pin safety. This manual tells us the following:
Safety Stop on the Hammer - A half-cock safety notch is on the hammer so as to prevent it from striking the firing pin when the hammer is manually cocked, and a thumb could slip. When the hammer is on the safety stop, it is not leaning against the firing pin stop, but its position is further back.
The firing pin stop was still present in the 75, but all of the other CZs used a firing pin retention roll pin to keep the firing pin in the slide.
I also have a copy of an english translation of the CZ-75 (not 75B) Armorer's Manual, and the safety notch is not even mentioned in the decocking instructions, nor is it mentioned as a starting position for carry. When decocking, you are instructed to manually lower the hammer until it rests against the firing pin stop, a small plate used to keep the firing pin in the slide.
You can't LEGALLY start from the half-cock notch if you're shooting a safety-equipped CZ in IDPA Stock Service or USPSA Production classes/divisions -- the rules don't allow it... probably because it's not a recognized starting position that is discussed in the user manuals.
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armoredman
Member
I do base my experience from the decocker models which do decock to the half cock notch. I have not read a CZ -75, (not B) manual as I did not possess a CZ 75 until about 2002, IIRC, which was a CZ 75 Compact, which I did carry on the half cock notch. Walt does have a great deal of experience in this regard.
I would never in my life carry a sidearm for defensive purposes based on rules from a game.
kBob
Member
Walt,
My original CZ75 DOES have a half cock notch and the pistol instructions DO suggest carrying the gun on half cock. It IS NOT a decocker model.
I imported this gun as a returning serviceman in 1982. It came into Germany via Frankonia.
I do know that CZs were exported to places other than Europe back when they were new that have various issues such as safety issues and internal finish issues having handled such guns. The Russians used to refer of weapons of lower quality intended for client nations as "Monkey Models" and one wonders if pre fall of the iron curtain CZ may have had the same attitude.
-kBob
My original CZ75 DOES have a half cock notch and the pistol instructions DO suggest carrying the gun on half cock. It IS NOT a decocker model.
I imported this gun as a returning serviceman in 1982. It came into Germany via Frankonia.
I do know that CZs were exported to places other than Europe back when they were new that have various issues such as safety issues and internal finish issues having handled such guns. The Russians used to refer of weapons of lower quality intended for client nations as "Monkey Models" and one wonders if pre fall of the iron curtain CZ may have had the same attitude.
-kBob
Walt Sherrill
Member
kBob said:
I understand your point.
I've had at least five pre-B CZ-75s, and all but the oldest one had the safety stop on the hammer. The oldest one did not, and it was NOT damaged. I later learned that the earliest CZs didn't have that feature.
I have a copy of a 1980 CZ manual and it does NOT recommend carrying on the half-cock notch. It simply says that the notch is there to save problems were the hand to slip while decocking. And when decocking, it says lower the hammer until it rests on the firing pin stop. It doesn't say stop at the safety notch. (That manual, as noted above, deals with both pre-B, B, and decocker models.)
It does say that you can carry with the hammer cocked and safety engaged, or lower the hammer to the safety thumb on the hammer, but does NOT say that one way is better than the other or recommended. It does note that the safety can't be engaged when the hammer is on the safety notch.
I'd love to have a copy of that manual, if you can scan it. I'll send you a copy of a pre-B armorer's manual in exchange.
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ClickClickD'oh
Member
He would be more correct to have said that modern CZ-75 pattern pistols are meant to have the half cock as a carry option. Oddly enough, CZ describes this technique in the manual under how to apply the manual safety. Page 24 of the current CZ-75 manual.
bassjam
Member
I don't carry mine, but it is my bedside gun. I keep the hammer down. My other home defense and conceal carry guns are all revolvers or guns with a double action pull like Kahrs, so it'd be unwise for me to have just one gun meant for defense that needs to have the safety flipped off to use. And I specifically chose all of those guns, I don't want to have to worry about a safety and I prefer having a higher trigger pull than a striker fired gun provides.
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