Winchester Introducing a Rimless 357 Max

This is very interesting. It's like a US version of the 9x39 that the Russians developed for suppressed weapons but with a straight case and more of a focus on lighter weight projectiles.

Wonder what a 125 JHP would be capable of loaded in this. I would guess that it would be an amazing home/self defense weapon.

I shot Winchester's XPR chambered for the Legend this past Monday at Industry Day in Las Vegas. The rounds chambered, fired and ejected really well with no issues. The feeding cycle was smooth and fast and recoil was minimal. I was surprised by how few people were shooting the rifle and I walked up and down the firing line numerous times so I got a sense of who was shooting what. It was very windy and a bit cold so turnout wasn't as good as it could have been. I'm not sure if a Legend is in my future but it will be interesting to see if the cartridge does well.

I want to publicly lay claim to the next new cartridge - 327 SBC Same 223 case....just start using the bullets destined for 327 Federal.

I would see the 350 Legend in a Ruger American Ranch rifle.

I would really love to see one of the new M1 carbine copies in this caliber.

IronHand

350 legend in a cz 527... Dress it up like a mini model 70.

adcoch1 said:

350 legend in a cz 527... Dress it up like a mini model 70.

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i am messing around with the idea off a 35x39, kind like a mini 35 rem even looks the same.

troy fairweather said:

i am messing around with the idea off a 35x39, kind like a mini 35 rem even looks the same.

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Based on 7.62x39?

adcoch1 said:

Based on 7.62x39?

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yes

Ok. Yay! Awesome. Etc. So cool. So grateful. So open to new things...

I don't like the 450 BM because it headspaces on the case mouth. So, same - same.

Let me know when they come out with a rimmed version.

Oh, I forgot...

adcoch1 said:

350 legend in a cz 527... Dress it up like a mini model 70.

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Now that I think of it, a 527 in .450 would be pretty cool too.

Goosey said:

Now that I think of it, a 527 in .450 would be pretty cool too.

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I would buy that in a millisecond.

I think I just found a new reason to build another AR

Be cooler in a Rem 7600 carbine

Hookeye said:

Indiana has no straight wall case mandate for their PCR, just a max case of 1.8", min of 1.16 and .35 cal or larger.

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That’s gone. I had an AR in .358 WSSM. Sold it. Now I use a 7 Mag

Changed couple years ago. Last year you could use a .243.

I still have not seen velocities for it yet. Only hyperbolic advertising.

There are five different loads listed on Winchesters website:

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle?filters={"ids":["#c-105"]}

145 gr FMJ______________2350 fps
150 gr Extreme Point_______2325 fps
160 gr Bonded Hollow Point__2225 fps
180 gr Power Point________2100 fps
265 gr Open Tip__________1060 fps

Obvious actual muzzle velocity is going to vary a bit depending on barrel length etc. That is still a pretty remarkable selection of ammo for a brand new to the market cartridge from a single manufacture. The fact that there is both obvious hunting cartridges, FMJ for cheap practice/plinking ammo and a sub-sonic load from the beginning of the cartridge is a good sign Winchester is going to give this cartridge a fair shake.

You know Hornady is going to ramp up on this cartridge soon and if it takes off like I think it will you will see the small boutique loaders jump on board in short order and maybe even the other big boys Federal and Remington. Similar to the way we have seen 450 Bushmaster start with Remington and Hornady and slowly spread to the boutique then to the other big loaders.

Please bear with me, development of new cartridges is not my area of expertise. I wonder why Winchester is looking for of a new cartridge when at every gun show I've been in the last 8 years or so always someone is looking for a 357/38 cartridge.
I know the are some Winchester model 92-94-73 and others out there.
I have one 94 45 Long Colt which make happy every time I handle towards the range.
I strongly believe market will pay for a quality rifle model 94 classic in 357/38 even if said Miroku on it.

adcoch1 said:

350 legend in a cz 527... Dress it up like a mini model 70.

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Hell yeah!

I use Super Mag, old time steel mover..... I have two 357 SM Martini rifles and making 2k FPS with a 200 is a no brainer with a 16.5 inch barrel. I have two 358 MGP ARs as well, that do quite a bit over 2k. I built all four. The Two ARs have McGowen barrels, they build all of the barrels for Mike at MGP Customs. McGowen will build a drop in Remington or AR barrel for you if you send them a reamer. They also build Remage barrels and nuts if you want a switch barrel 700.

The 358 MGP is based on the 6.8 SPC, used the 6.8 bolt and modified mags in the AR.

So the the 350 with 1.71 case length should fit an AR oal of 2.29 nicely. With the increase in body diameter it might use 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC mags.

By the way, a 358 Grendel is the 358 ARk. The 6.5 Grendel inventor/maker hangs out at the Grendel forum, he made a bunch, of calibers. The 358 was done, many years ago.
Ed

redneck2 said:

That’s gone. I had an AR in .358 WSSM. Sold it. Now I use a 7 Mag

Changed couple years ago. Last year you could use a .243.

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Indiana: HP rifle is deer legal for private land only.

Public land still has the PCR spec....1.16-1.8" .35 cal and bigger.

The initial law for HP rifle was for 5 cartridges (but not explicitly named).......they were of .24 and .30 cal.

IIRC they were listed on the bill as:

.243
.30-30
.308
.30-06
.300

Due to lack of detail (example: what is a .300?) it was opened to any .24 and .30 cal that fit the cartridge spec (DNR clarification). Two calibers.

Anyway, the HP rifle stuff was later changed...... to calibers .24 and up (again meeting a case spec).

FWIW .243 win was legal, under the HP rifle deal............. from the get go.

czhen said:

Please bear with me, development of new cartridges is not my area of expertise. I wonder why Winchester is looking for of a new cartridge when at every gun show I've been in the last 8 years or so always someone is looking for a 357/38 cartridge.
I know the are some Winchester model 92-94-73 and others out there.
I have one 94 45 Long Colt which make happy every time I handle towards the range.
I strongly believe market will pay for a quality rifle model 94 classic in 357/38 even if said Miroku on it.

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Deer hunting, good to 200 yards, optics friendly platforms.
.350 legend will be in AR's and bolt guns, not slam folks like the .450 BM does.

A FS CZ527 in 350 Legend would definitely pique my curiosity.

An AR upper is definitely in my future.

I could easily see room for a turn bolt based on a Savage donor action as well.

At the ranges (and regulations) I'm subject to here in Ohio, this is certainly in my wheel house. I was considering building a 357 AR MAX anyways. Already got a TC Encore in 357 Max.

As long as I can find barrels I can keep any .223 based weapon maintained and feed practically indefinitely. No real worries about finding oddball brass or speciality bullets. Blow out some 5.56 brass, take your pick of 35CAL JHP's or cast lead and you're off. Should work well with a range of fast rifle to slow pistol powders.

I already have a mid range .35 cal.
Got a red plaid wool coat to go with it

czhen said:

Please bear with me, development of new cartridges is not my area of expertise. I wonder why Winchester is looking for of a new cartridge when at every gun show I've been in the last 8 years or so always someone is looking for a 357/38 cartridge.
I know the are some Winchester model 92-94-73 and others out there.
I have one 94 45 Long Colt which make happy every time I handle towards the range.
I strongly believe market will pay for a quality rifle model 94 classic in 357/38 even if said Miroku on it.

Click to expand...

All the kids want AR15's and cheap bolt actions.