The Army's new Squad Automatic Rifle will be Chambered in .270 Win. ...ish.

Garandimal · Feb 1, 2019

The Next Generation Squad Weapon-Rifle (NGSW-R)
and the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Automatic Rifle (NGSW-AR),
will both be chambered in the Army’s new specification general purpose 6.8mm round.

6.8mm caliber/ 135 gr./ 3,000 fps muzzle velocity (rifle or carbine.)

“The 6.8mm caliber projectile cannot change. A 6.8mm caliber is large enough to
achieve Government’s required outcomes whereas a 6.5mm caliber cannot.”

.270 Winchester.
Welcome to the club.

GR

LoonWulf · Feb 1, 2019

Be interesting to see how that works out!

mustanger98 · Feb 1, 2019

I think it was .270Win and .276Pedersen both... back in the '20's they said something about no military value.

If a 6.5 can't do it... and the Japs and Swedes both had 6.5's... whatever made 'em think 5.56 was such a great idea?

Tommygunn · Feb 1, 2019

mustanger98 said:
I think it was .270Win and .276Pedersen both... back in the '20's they said something about no military value.

If a 6.5 can't do it... and the Japs and Swedes both had 6.5's... whatever made 'em think 5.56 was such a great idea?

Well, they're talking SQUAD AUTOMATIC RIFLE here and the 5.56 mm. was for a standard ol' rifle.

someguy2800 · Feb 2, 2019

I'm pretty skeptical that this requirement of a 135 grain projectile at 3000 fps is going to make it through trials. I have a feeling they are going to back off on that a bit.

someguy2800 · Feb 2, 2019

The M14 taught us that what you want and what is practical to use in a full automatic rifle are two different things.

horsey300 · Feb 2, 2019

.270 wsm, it'll get a makeover I'm sure, but when the outcome hits, that's what we'll be looking at, short and feisty.

Laphroaig · Feb 2, 2019

Garandimal said:
“The 6.8mm caliber projectile cannot change. A 6.8mm caliber is large enough to
achieve Government’s required outcomes whereas a 6.5mm caliber cannot.”

I wonder what the "required outcomes" are?

FL-NC · Feb 2, 2019

6.8, 6.5 CM, a 45 ACP handgun, the XM8, 408 Cheytac, etc.- all examples of things "the military is going to", according to the internet. Don't hold your breath. When I worked in R&D, we found these articles especially entertaining.

RedlegRick · Feb 2, 2019

I foresee 5.56, 7.62 NATO and 9mm Para to remain in US inventory for a very long time. Far too much invested in legacy platforms, parts, and stockpiles in my opinion.

25-20 WCF · Feb 2, 2019

I foresee 5.56, 7.62 NATO and 9mm Para to remain in US inventory for a very long time. Far too much invested in legacy platforms, parts, and stockpiles in my opinion.

Yep, that’s what they said about the .30-06 and the .45 Auto too.....ane yet here we are.

RedlegRick · Feb 2, 2019

25-20 WCF said:
Yep, that’s what they said about the .30-06 and the .45 Auto too.....ane yet here we are.

I didn't say forever. Eventually Uncle Sugar will decide to revamp things, but unless something major happens, we'll be seeing the same stuff for awhile.

Browning · Feb 2, 2019

I'll believe it when I hear they've actually made the switch.

wanderinwalker · Feb 2, 2019

I just don't see it happening. It looks good on paper, but wait until reality sets in. By reality, I mean recoil, muzzle blast, cost, platform size, weight, wear on equipment, etc.

This thing is going to kick at least as hard as the 7.62 NATO and .30-06 of days of yore. And realistically, those guns were at the limit of what our grandfathers and great-grandfathers could use. With many people today thinking the 5.56 NATO "kicks", something in the power class of what the Army's "new" 6.8mm cartridge is promising isn't going to improve marksmanship by any stretch.

<- a 35 year old Millenial who hasn't served in the military, but is a former competitive shooter and sees the effects of recoil on average shooters every time I visit the range.

Slamfire · Feb 2, 2019

Unless the SecDef forces it down the user's throat, Baby will puke it back up. Baby likes what it has, and will have no other.

CoalTrain49 · Feb 2, 2019

Hornady doesn't list a 135 gr bullet and max loads for the 130 gr are around 2300 fps. I know they don't wring every bit of performance from a cartridge for liability reasons but that's a pretty big gap from 2300 to 3000 fps. A more realistic bullet would be 120 gr and MV around 2500 fps. which would be just fine for a 500 meter engagement. That's still going to be a huge improvement over the 5.56.

My guess they set those requirements very high in order get designers to think that someone has actually produced such a 6.8 mm cartridge that can do that and they need to do better. The 6.8 SPC was actually a cartridge developed for the military with their input so I'm thinking the military already knows they aren't going to get 3000 fps out of that cartridge.

The 270 WSM is a bolt rifle cartridge as most of those mags are. Those short fat cases with flat shoulders don't work real well in automatic weapons.

I wish they would hurry up with this project so I can build a rifle. Once the 6.8 SPC gets adopted by the military the brass will be like 5.56 brass, laying around waiting for you to pick it up.

I might just get started on a 6.8 SPC rifle and avoid the rush. I like the cartridge, should work well with a 20" barrel.

CoalTrain49 · Feb 2, 2019

25-20 WCF said:
Yep, that’s what they said about the .30-06 and the .45 Auto too.....ane yet here we are.

I think the 5.56 has been around in the military about 50 years. The 06 was also for about the same time and the 7.62 even longer. So 50 years seems to be about the useful life of a military cartridge. My guess is the military is pretty close to a new cartridge for SAW and carbine.

alsaqr · Feb 2, 2019

The 6.8mm SPC round was developed in conjunction with the US Army. The cartridge is a shortened and necked down .30 Remington.

A friend had a Remington 700 Varmint rifle in 6.8mm SPC caliber. After reloading some 6.8 SPC cartridges i know one thing for sure. The US military will not be getting velocities any near 3,000 fps with a 135 grain bullet. Best velocities we were able to obtain with 115 grain bullets were 2,550 fps.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/68-remington-spc/

30Cal · Feb 2, 2019

someguy2800 said:
I'm pretty skeptical that this requirement of a 135 grain projectile at 3000 fps is going to make it through trials. I have a feeling they are going to back off on that a bit.

Better order a lot of extra barrels with that.

Goosey · Feb 2, 2019

Garandimal said:
“The 6.8mm caliber projectile cannot change. A 6.8mm caliber is large enough to
achieve Government’s required outcomes whereas a 6.5mm caliber cannot.”

That sounds like nonsense to me, unless there's some method of construction which a slightly larger diameter facilitates. Which I doubt.

I always see people push the 6.5 for military purposes. But the usual 6.5 advantages make no difference to the military. They don't have to buy commercial bullets or barrels and can design and decide their own bullets and twist rates from the ground up.

alsaqr · Feb 2, 2019

Cartridge is apparently not the 6.8mm SPC. The US Army wants something 20 percent lighter.

SharpDog · Feb 2, 2019

Laphroaig said:
I wonder what the "required outcomes" are?

Money in the right pockets I expect.

What I enjoy most is the notion that if it has the same chamber pressure as a tank round, it's as powerful as a tank round. This notion comes up (in the media) repeatedly in these discussions

jamesinalaska · Feb 2, 2019

Or the government could just train their squad's riflemen to shoot two rounds of 75 gr. ammunition and have an eqivalent of 150 grains at 2750 feet per second.

Texas10mm · Feb 2, 2019

CoalTrain49 said:
I think the 5.56 has been around in the military about 50 years. The 06 was also for about the same time and the 7.62 even longer. So 50 years seems to be about the useful life of a military cartridge. My guess is the military is pretty close to a new cartridge for SAW and carbine.

7.62x51 had a pretty short service life in rifles.

A 135 gr bullet at 3100 fps is going to have a pretty high operating pressure. I'd guess in the 85-90k psi range.

Bfh_auto · Feb 2, 2019

I've been reading things like this since I was in grade school.
What is essentially a 270 wsm in an automatic weapon would be insane.

The Army's new Squad Automatic Rifle will be Chambered in .270 Win. ...ish.

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