Best all around versatile powder for 9mm

Charlie98 said:

I think every powder within a reasonable burn range can produce a shootable cartridge... not something dumb like IMR4227 in the .380...

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I think this will give you a chuckle; Some old published IMR data listed in their rifle section... Look at the last couple:



Sure would hate to see it accidentally fired in a revolver/better have a squib rod. I guess if you had some of the last two or so from the bottom, and you *had* to you use it up for rifle reloading... But you might get more "bang from your buck", using it as fertilizer.

ArchAngelCD said:

bds said:

I am finalizing my prototype scoped machine pistol rest build. When completed, I plan to test about 20 powders starting with 9mm so we should have usable data soon to help with powder selection

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testing many powders sounds exciting, can't wait for your data, thank you.

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Yes, I too am looking forward to doing powder comparison tests with a machine rest platform that removes much of shooter input with most of reloading variables isolated (Same headstamp brass, same resized case length, no bullet setback, etc.).

My recent "myth busting" threads brought to light several reloading variables that were not consistent in my past testing so I hope to conduct more "objective and factual" comparison testing in the future with chrono data for both pistol and carbine.

I shot some Sport Pistol 9mm reloads today. I'm really impressed with this powder so far.

Charlie98 said:

I've found my list of everyday powders very often is different, even completely different, than someone else's... even on something like .308 (I don't use Varget, for example, which makes me dumb or stupid, depending on who you talk to.) Pistol powders like TiteGroup, which has a rabid following, I don't care for; I have about a pound left on the bench... picked up during the last Scare... and I can see it's utility, I just don't like how the powder works. I love Unique (you would never have guessed, would you?) but others avoid it like... well, like I avoid TiteGroup. I think every powder within a reasonable burn range can produce a shootable cartridge... not something dumb like IMR4227 in the .380, but reasonable powders, and then it all boils down to the particular pistol, bullet, and what the loader expects for performance out of it.

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A lot of truth there. I don’t care for Unique, mainly because I have found other powders that work at least as good, but meter better. I am in the process of using up my remaining Titegroup, but if we have another shortage and I can find it, I know it will work. Everyone raves about #9 or Bluedot or 800x in 10mm, but I was surprised that BE86 worked as good or better (at least for me).

I’ve mentioned it before, but if I could only have one Pistol powder, it would be BE86. I believe it works as well as Unique but meters better.

But there are calibers where BE86 works well but is not optimum (for my use). Low recoil 45acp and full throttle 44mag come to mind.

It’s not the best, or my favorite for anything. W231 has got to be the most versatile pistol powder of all time.

Toprudder said:

Which caliber(s)?

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Well since you were talking about 380, 9, .40, and .45 how about we start with those?

Galil5.56 said:

I think this will give you a chuckle; Some old published IMR data listed in their rifle section... Look at the last couple:

View attachment 831420

Sure would hate to see it accidentally fired in a revolver/better have a squib rod. I guess if you had some of the last two or so from the bottom, and you *had* to you use it up for rifle reloading... But you might get more "bang from your buck", using it as fertilizer.

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Good heavens! Yaa, I'll bet those charges were compressed! I guess this goes to show that just because you can do it, doesn't necessarily mean you should.

I use Unique for 9 mm, it works great. The Shields shoot anything I put into them.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

Galil5.56 said:

I think this will give you a chuckle; Some old published IMR data listed in their rifle section... Look at the last couple:

View attachment 831420

Sure would hate to see it accidentally fired in a revolver/better have a squib rod. I guess if you had some of the last two or so from the bottom, and you *had* to you use it up for rifle reloading... But you might get more "bang from your buck", using it as fertilizer.

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Kind of makes me want to try a case full of 4064 in my .41 and see what happens. I know it will work in a 10" SBR .308, albeit with significant flash.

rskent said:

It’s not the best, or my favorite for anything. W231 has got to be the most versatile pistol powder of all time.

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I agree W231 is very versatile but unlike you I think it is the best powder for the .38 Special and a match made in heaven for the 45 ACP.

There is no better 45 ACP load than a 230gr LRN bullet over 5.5gr W231, all IMO of course.

I try to keep it simple, so I use only HP38 or Power Pistol for 9mm. I've never felt a need for anything different/more.

ArchAngelCD said:

I agree W231 is very versatile but unlike you I think it is the best powder for the .38 Special and a match made in heaven for the 45 ACP.

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I stand corrected, not the best for me. I will have to give it another try in 38spl. Thanks

I was at the local Indy gun show yesterday, and I found some Sport Pistol, so I picked some up. I also noticed today that Midway has it back in stock. This is good news and time to stock up a bit before commiting. I tried a lb about 6-8 months ago, and loved it for .40 and 9mm. Now that I have a few pounds, I am going to work up some new 9mm loads for minor PF using both RMR 124 gr. JHP (MPR) and 147 gr. Match Winners. I am excited to see what I can come up with.

I am normally a "Titegroup Guy" for my 9mm rounds, not due to cost, but I just can't find anything I like better so far. I was not a fan of BE-86 that everyone else seems to love. I had a lot more perceived recoil with BE-86 at the PF I load for (132-133).

If there's 1000 members, there's 1000 answers.
9 mm is one of those calibers that can use umpteen million powders/data points.

And I'm a big time Titegroup fan.
I use it in 5 or 6 different calibers.

Doublehelix,
here are some #s with SP using the RMR 124gr MPR
S+B SP, very mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting the measure (Lee auto drum)
using my old high mileage 25K+ rnds 5"9mm 1911
(so it has some wear on the barrel and might be a bit slower, need to test it side by side with my new one when I have a chance---yes I liked the first one so much I bought a spare since it is most likely going off list in CA)
String: 3
Date: 8/26/2018
Time: 11:13:30 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 955
Low Vel: 913
Ave Vel: 933
Ext Spread: 42
Std Dev: 15
3.7 Sport Pistol 124 RMR MPR JHP 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
926 114.824 236.072
955 118.42 251.09
934 115.816 240.169
913 113.212 229.491
938 116.312 242.231

String: 4
Date: 8/26/2018
Time: 11:14:49 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 987
Low Vel: 967
Ave Vel: 981
Ext Spread: 20
Std Dev: 8
3.9 Sport Pistol 124 RMR MPR JHP 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
984 122.016 266.571
981 121.644 264.948
986 122.264 267.656
987 122.388 268.199
967 119.908 257.44 This one ruined what would have been a great ES/SD

String: 1
Date: 8/26/2018
Time: 11:17:44 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1016
Low Vel: 1001
Ave Vel: 1008
Ext Spread: 15
Std Dev: 6
4.0 Sport Pistol 124 RMR MPR JHP 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1010 125.24 280.845
1001 124.124 275.862
1011 125.364 281.401
1016 125.984 284.191
1002 124.248 276.413

String: 2
Date: 8/26/2018
Time: 11:19:12 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1059
Low Vel: 1021
Ave Vel: 1037
Ext Spread: 38
Std Dev: 13
4.2 Sport Pistol 124 RMR MPR JHP 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1059 131.316 308.756
1033 128.092 293.781
1040 128.96 297.776
1036 128.464 295.49
1021 126.604 286.995

I loaded 3.9 and 4 both thinking one or the other might get me to 125 PF, not quite (with any wiggle room)
4.1 would probably do it, but 4.2 gives me a hair more wiggle room.
If I remember correctly in Walkalong's test the S+B SPs were about 15-25 fps slower than CCI SPs so if you are using CCIs 4gr might get you to 125.
(going to miss the S+B SPs, and will need to retest all my loads now that I am switching to CCIs....but still have a couple thousand S+Bs to use up first)

+1 for W231. I use it for 380, 45acp and 9mm. Works well in all of em.

Charlie98 said:

One of the reasons I got away from Unique in the 9mm was from crazy pressure swings. Loading for my BHP, I would go from short-cycling the slide, to a cratered primer... it was nuts. This was in my early reloading days, so back then I wasn't much concerned about COAL and bullet seating depth, so that certainly factored in... I pay much more attention to 9mm bullet seat depth now days, but I still think there are better powders for the small charge weights like that used in the 9mm.

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Never had that Issue with pressure swings with Unique. I didn't with Red Dot either unless my powder drop was bridging. I quit using the Lee Micro- Adjust Charge bar for small charges with flake powders. It's nothing but a crap shoot with certain powders below certain volumes.

Wsf BE 86. Sport Pistol 231

I have had very good results with Hi-Skor 800X in 9mm. It is difficult to meter consistently, but once you get over that hurdle, it has delivered consistent performance and reliable functioning of my pistol.

Thanks jeeptim,
glad to help.
If you are using the MPRs and are interested I have some data with other powders.
If you would like it PM me

Try Hogden’s Universal (not Universal clays, just Universal. Their naming system is terrible.) Very close to Unique but meters far better.

Try Hogden’s Universal (not Universal clays, just Universal. Their naming system is terrible.) Very close to Unique but meters far better.

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Universal Clays used to be the only Universal, I don't believe there is a just plain Universal but I may be mistaken.
There is Clays (fast), International Clays (slower than Clays, little if any pistol data), and Universal Clays aka Universal (midrange pistol burn speed about like Unique but different data)
Universal Clays is about the same burn speed as Unique but spikier on top IMO.
,
Snip from Hodgdons site today, no plain Universal, but Universal Clays. (note Clays Technology under the UNIV of Universal)

As a new reloader I don't have much input here on powder selection. I will say that it can be very confusing for a newbie. I started reloading 9mm this year and went with Titegroup, and I'll probably try a different powder when I run out. So far Titegroup seems to work well enough for me to say I would continue to use it. Since I'm new to this I want to experiment with others and make my own decision.

Prowler53 said:

I want to experiment with others and make my own decision.

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That's the joy/curse of our hobby/passion.

And I have been "experimenting" almost 30 years.

Welcome to the club/sanitarium.