FYI: From a New Zealand Gun Forum

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Owning a magazine of greater than 10 rounds is an offense that will get you up to 5 years.

The legislation is appallingly worded, as it is circular. Shooting organizations have started to generate a legal opinion so we have a greater understanding. Normally this takes a lawyer s few days. Estimes on the new legislation is that it will take over 2 WEEKS.

Government is aware that the compensation in austrslia had 20% compliance and they offered 125% market value immediately. Now information released here yet.

It gets better. There us ZERO incentive for criminals to hand in firearms. Previously illegal firearms and those without a firearms license are not elligable.

Shout out to ar15.com who crashed the nz police website regarding the hand in.
 
on april 19,1775 we went our own one way. canada, australia and nz didn’t. the crown is all about governing its subjects. we are (have been) about liberty to enjoy inalienable rights. i used to admire our cousins for our shared heritage, but no longer.
 
And if no one filled out the form? How many gun owners are there in NZ? What percentage of the population? Let’s just say it’s 15%. If everyone refused, the government would be forced to take another position. 15% cannot be jailed. That’s 72,000 people. The economy would collapse overnight. This is your chance. This is your moment.
 
BigBore44 said:
And if no one filled out the form? How many gun owners are there in NZ? What percentage of the population? Let’s just say it’s 15%. If everyone refused, the government would be forced to take another position. 15% cannot be jailed. That’s 72,000 people. The economy would collapse overnight. This is your chance. This is your moment.
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about 250,000. Population about 4 million. So far in a month. 300 odd handed in. 1600ish forms submitted to police of intent to hand in but retaining possession until compensation is finalized. Most of those are e category firearms which are already registered to the owner
 
Danger Mouse said:
about 250,000. Population about 4 million. So far in a month. 300 odd handed in. 1600ish forms submitted to police of intent to hand in but retaining possession until compensation is finalized. Most of those are e category firearms which are already registered to the owner
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Well it’s still the perfect moment. 1,600 out of 250,000 isn’t horrible. It’s just 1,600 too many.
 
bds said:
Dang.

Like I already posted, NZ gun ban will force people to choose sides in the US, for 2A or against 2A.
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Meh. Not really.

If the Newtown elementary school shooting, the Pulse nightclub shooting, the Las Vegas shooting, the "insert name of shooting of the month here," all of which happened in the U.S. not in a foreign country, didn't motivate anyone remaining who hasn't already chosen a side, then a shooting and some gun laws in far away country isn't going to do it.

Most assuredly, the battle lines are already drawn in the U.S., and everyone has made their choice. The NZ shooting will only serve to further affirm those who are anti-2A in the U.S., and the resulting NZ gun ban will only serve to further affirm those who are pro-2A in the U.S.
 
jstert said:
the crown is all about governing its subjects. we are (have been) about liberty to enjoy inalienable rights.
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I discuss this when I teach comparative government in my US Government class, and you're absolutely right.

In England, Canada, and pretty much all of the former British colonies, the political watch word (or phrase) is "Peace Order and Good Government" (POGG). In the U.S., that watchword is "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." It seems that people in the British system tend to prefer slightly less freedom in exchange for slightly more security-or at least the perception of slightly more security. (And that applies to economic security as well as physical security.) Whereas we, in the U.S., tend to be just the opposite. (I believe the pendulum is swinging toward POGG in the U.S. however.)

What I find interesting is that, as near as I can tell at least, people living in the British system are quite happy with the POGG model. Very few would trade their government system for ours. Ironically, the very few former Brits and Canadians I've met who would trade, I met in the U.S.; they had moved/immigrated from England, Canada and New Zealand. This seems to hold true, not only of gun laws, but of social and economic safety nets, universal health care, etc.

Bear in mind, however, that my observations are just that. The are purely anecdotal, and I don't claim to have personally met a broad cross section of British (and their colonial) society.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
You sound like my high school students. ("You can't flunk all of us." or "You can't suspend all of us.") Really? Why not?
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Not quite the same thing. But I bet if an entire demographic refused to participate in a mandated school rule because they felt it was unjust or violated their ability to protect themselves from violence, the school board wouldn’t just dismiss it.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
You sound like my high school students.
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We are not underaged high school students fussing through puberty. We are grown adults who desire freedom and liberty not just for us, but for our children and grandchildren.

I am sure many thought American colonists going against Great Britain was crazy ... "You can't possibly win against Great Britain?"

Over the centuries and even in recent years, there were many countries where people rose up and took over the government. And why did people in these countries rise up? Because they had enough of oppression by the government. I am certain many in those countries, both government and people, thought people would not rise up and take over the government.

USA differs from other British colonies in that our founders fought against Great Britain and won independence and our existence as a country is based on that event. Just because Australia and New Zealand chose gun bans doesn't mean such gun ban will automatically take place in the USA. While there may have been many who supported gun control measures in the past, many of them would object to gun ban/confiscation.

And will people stop overthrowing governments in the future just because government told them not to?

Since you are a teacher, if you were asked that question, how would you answer it?

My answer would be "Heck no!"
 
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D.B. Cooper said:
Meh. Not really.

Most assuredly, the battle lines are already drawn in the U.S., and everyone has made their choice.
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How can you be so certain?

Everyday, guns are sold to new gun owners and I have a feeling many of these new gun owners will become supporters of 2A.

Many people I have talked to were not pro-gun/2A before gun purchase but became pro-gun/2A after gun purchase. People buy guns for many reasons, primarily for personal defense/protection which overshadows political parties which I have outlined in this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/re-training-of-firearms-related-information.849620/

I seldom see pro-2A gun owners becoming anti-gun. But I often see previously anti-2A gun owners becoming pro-gun after gun purchase.
 
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bds said:
USA differs from other British colonies in that our founders fought against Great Britain and won independence and our existence as a country is based on that event. Just because Australia and New Zealand chose gun bans doesn't mean such gun ban will automatically take place in the USA.
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That's the meat of the matter.
The reason why the confiscation of guns in NZ will be successful is because (like the UK) they don't have the underlying cultural investment in the ownership of firearms. Like the UK they started on an unequal footing anyway, since the "common man" cannot own firearms for the purpose of self defense.
It is a matter of meaningful subscription. If the majority of your population does not subscribe to the notion of being able to carry tools for self defense, you've got a limited capacity for gun ownership.

Arguing against the banning of certain firearms in that environment is then an uphill battle from word one.
 
15% of the pop. of NZ isn't willing to go to war over this. I doubt even a percentage of that number is willing to. Which is what it would take.

The 'Resistors' will likely bury their guns.

Most will delay to the last min and then quietly hand in their guns.
 
Danger Mouse said:
Yes nz forums ARE being monitored by nz police and the media. Likely that nz intelligence services are also monitoring.

Overseas websites have been blocked including ar15.com although this is slowly being opened back up.
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NZ boards aren't the only ones. Expect LE on all of them.

bds said:
Dang.

Like I already posted, NZ gun ban will force people to choose sides in the US, for 2A or against 2A.
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Think of exemptions as the big brother policy equivalent to lube. Just makes it a little easier to get stretched out...
Eventually there is no exemptions, or at least no one alive yet that can take advantage of them.

Danger Mouse said:
Service rifle shooting is now dead. Only bolt action class remains.

Farmers are now complaining because the only centre fire semi automatic exemption is for professional cullers. Farmers are forced to pay for professional pest controllers now
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Typical government. Decides that some are a little more "equal" than others. ie: "We know better."
 
jstert said:
on april 19,1775 we went our own one way. canada, australia and nz didn’t. the crown is all about governing its subjects. we are (have been) about liberty to enjoy inalienable rights. i used to admire our cousins for our shared heritage, but no longer.
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No one should get too comfortable with restrictions on freedom. Government records exist in the US if you have a short barreled rifle, suppressor, or 50 year old select fire gun. Assets are seized and doors kicked in, for rope growing outside fer cryin' out loud.

Check out where the countries rank on the freedom index. Kind of a wake up for many, I suspect.
 
AlexanderA said:
I wouldn't describe New Zealand as "tyrannical." One issue (guns) does not make a tyranny. Sometimes we, as gun owners, tend to focus on the one issue alone. The rest of the world is not as fixated on guns as Americans are.
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I wouldn't describe myself as a one issue voter, but as soon as you start limiting what kind of firepower citizens can possess, it's pretty easy to start limiting what they can say, and how they can gather.
 
I am surprised that anyone here is surprised.

Early in WWII , prior to the U.S. entry , England was in an extreme bind - invasion by the Germans via France appeared imminent , and the English citizenry along the channel coast was armed with little more than farm tools. The U.S. sent many thousands of firearms to the Brits to enable them to defend their island. With that crisis past the British government saw fit to disarm it's subjects once again.

You would think that they learned a lesson...
 
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