6.5 Creedmoor past present future

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My local Academy had more 6.5 Creedmoor loads than .243,.270 or .308

So what does that tell you nothing really and everything at the same time

They only carry what sells so if it wasn’t working why carry that many kinds?
 
What do you think the future of the 6.5 will hold with the military choosing the 6.8 mm? Makes me wonder how this will effect popularity.

SOCOM has been using 6.5 Creedmoor for a little while now so a sniper rifle cartridge with good results. They are replacing their KAC M110s with 6.5 Creedmoor models.

The new 6.8 is set to replace the 5.56 whenever this new mystery rifle that will replace the M4 is adopted. However I think this is going to be yet another failed attempt to replace the M4/5.56.

Either way this new 6.8 isn't going up against the 6.5 Creedmoor.
 
I think there are several factors. But the main one is that Rifle shooters today are more concerned about long range accuracy and target shooting than hunting. While the 6.5 Creedmoor may be a good and more than enough for deer, it doesn't offer any major advantage over other popular cartridges at hunting ranges. But it was designed for accuracy by Hornady engineers with help from bench rest shooters and is based on bench rest specialty ammo. It is designed to use long target bullets making it a viable long range target round. It is a success. Now Hornaday has taken it a step further and introduced a similar round also in 6.5 that keeps the advantages of the Creedmoor but adds more velocity. I wonder if these brothers will hurt or help each other? Sadly I think in this day in age when stores only want to stock the fast sellers some grand old cartridges will disappear. I went to buy .44 Special ammo today and had to try 3 stores and only found one load. Take it or leave it. Anyway I think the Creedmoor is here to stay because I don't think young people care much about grandpa's guns. I know I am too old for bandwagons.
 
I went to buy .44 Special ammo today and had to try 3 stores and only found one load
I just got a Ruger gp100 and went thru the same thing.
Thankfully we have a couple places that carry some really eclectic stuff.
Tho the availability of Creedmoor ammo is another thing Its got going for it.
 
It is a better Jack if all Trades round than most others. It’s easy to shoot in hunting rifles and has good hunting bullets. It has great performance at distance relative to most short action options. And it is the current popular round for the gun mags.

It’s not going to replace .308 or .223/5,56 until surplus ammo is available. It’s not terribly expensive to shoot but as long as others have $4-$5 for 20 ammo available, the volume will stick elsewhere. You may see rifle sales change in favor of the 6.5CM but rounds fired will stick to cheapest ammo available.

I don’t think it will continue to be the in demand option as time moves on. First, if people are moving from hunting and to target shooting, smaller lower recoiling rounds will be even better. Something in the .224-.25 diameter in a very slippery bullet will notch all the long range steel punchers dreams. And everything we have currently kills stuff dead inside ethical ranges already. I don’t see a non-surplus cartridge taking over anything from a volume point of view, but should $.25/round ammo pop up then it has little to argue with
 
Honest question is there a rifle manufacturer right now that doesn’t chamber their work in 6.5 Creedmoor?

I hear about how it is all hype well after more than a decade of use wouldn’t it worn off it it was just hype? It flat works (some) people don’t like change imho not saying other stuff doesn’t work

I just think for me it’s the best current mousetrap
 
It’s not hype at all. It’s a great jack of all trades right now. It does a lot well. But it’s nothing revolutionary (though factory rifles in fast twists is arguably evolutionary). The most revolutionary part is that you can find quality factory ammo for $1/round. It’s not much different than the .260 (which is also a great round). It just came about in a way that ended up popular (for good reason). But let’s be honest, it’s still a compromise like every other round.

It’s good for most game in NA but not all. It’s good for most target shooting, but not all, it’s good for most casual use, but not all (no surplus ammo to blast). It’s a great round but for the average guy doing average things, either .308 or 5.56 or 7.62x39 is more practical. For someone extremely narrow in use case, it’s probably the wrong set of compromises. For someone who wants to do less plinking, more mid-long range shooting, maybe some hunting, and doesn’t want to reload it’s a great option. I think if you want to use factory rifles and factory ammo it’s the smartest choice for 800+ yard shooting and a solid choice for medium game hunting. And that’s why it’s being chambered by everyone.

Ammo selection/price is clearly what still drive the 5.56 and .308 and 7.62x39. Nothing in those is inherently better for every use than 6.5CM. The day they dry up or the day surplus priced ammo for other options arrives is the day for the common man to choose something else. Until then 6.5CM may be popular and it may sell a lot of rifles, but very few are buying it by the case.
 
Fresh coat of paint on a tired topic...

It seems like this thread pops up and over again in slightly different forms.
You could rehash the whole CM versus Swedish accuracy and performance thing again but it's all been said over and over.

So, I'll just say that both are equally excellent medium bore hunting cartridges, handicapped by limited bullet weights.
With the usual largest bullet weight of 160 grains, both cartridges only achieve around 2569 FPS.
Meanwhile the .30-06 can easily achieve this same velocity with a 200 grain bullet, and 2700 FPS with a 180 grain bullet.
So, at normal hunting distances the 6.5's are fine deer and elk cartridges.
But, for larger game they just don't have what it takes.
 
I'd be interested in perspective on why the 6.5 CM has exploded in popularity while the 6.5X55 Swede and 260 Remington languished.

Because they are old and lacked a market place to thrive when originally introduced.

Why did the 300 fireball, 300 Whisper languish and the practicality identical 300 Blk made it? Same reason.
 
This is why the 6.5 creedmoor wins where the 260 failed.

First the 260 was released with the wrong twist rate, 1:10, which means it cannot stabilize the long high BC bullets unless you get a custom barrel. The 6.5C has a standard twist of 1:8 Most factory 260 rifles now come with a 1:8 or 1:9, but the damage was done.

Second the 260's case is too long. The picture below is a 308 at max OAL length on the left, 147 gr 6.5 bullet in the middle, and 6.5 creedmoor on the right. As you can see if you load this long of a bullet into a 308 length case the ogive of the bullet is barely out of the case mouth. Sure you can handload to longer lengths if you have a long enough magazine, but you can't sell factory ammo that won't fit in every gun.

The solution that the 6.5C offers is to shorten the case slightly and blow the shoulder out. This results in an identical case capacity, but now the bullets actually fit in the case, and the case fits in the guns. Now release it to the public with a cool name and sell really good match factory ammo for $20 a box and you have a runaway success.

Excellent explanation. Not sure why this isn't obvious to everyone. As soon as I saw the 6.5 CM cartridge, it answered a lot of questions - all of which you explain above.

As much as I love my 7mm-08's, I can't disagree that the 6.5 CM might be the ideal deer round for the vast majority of shooters, as well as an obviously capable and fun round on the range (even long range). Personally, I'll still always pick the 7mm-08 over the 6.5 CM for hunting, because I want the ability to load 160+ grain bullets for elk, while still being able to shoot 120-grainers at whitetails with a minimum of recoil. IMO, the 7mm-08 offers the best range of hunting weight bullets at a good BC of any short-action caliber.

But it's easy for me to see why the 6.5 CM is so popular, and I enjoy shooting the one I have. Regarding it's future, I can't disagree that it will eventually become the most popular centerfire round, mostly because this generation of 20-somethings that are being raised with it, will continue to embrace it for the next 50 years. If not this generation's .308, it will at least become this generation's .243.

Grandpa had his '06, we had the .308, and now the millennials will have their 6.5 CM. It follows a trend. There's even a guy on a popular hunting site that is now promoting the .223 as a capable elk round. Go figure.
 
I think its just a passing fancy. So I purchased a bunch of brass and two rifles. I think it meets a need for a performance 6.5 caliber. Why did it explode in popularity when others have failed. I think people because of it started to realize that the mid range cartridges could perform exceptionally. Except for my M96 I didn't have a rifle in a mid range caliber. Wanting to expand, what does one choose? The new kid on the block seemed to be the choice. Doesn't make it better, just newer. We like things that are new.
 
With regards to the 6.5 Swedish versus the 6.5 CM, this song quote seems to say it well:

And don't throw the past away
You might need it some other rainy day
Dreams can come true again
When everything old is new again :)
 
TarDevil
2) Long action is not in vogue right now
3) with all the old Mauser weak actions no ammo makers want to “hot rod 6.5x55” in case it gets in a weak action

I don't know why long actions are out of fashion, and for both of my commercial 6.5 Swedes, the makers used the long action, and there is considerable wasted space in the magazine. Might be as much as a half inch, I would have to get the rifles out to measure.

This is a mid ninties Rem Classic

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Core Lokts shot well in this rifle, considering they are hunting bullets.

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It really like 140 SMK's!

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It did not like Remington Core Lokts

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It loved 140 SMK's, and remember, based on the inprint gunwriters, three shot groups are the gold standard for accuracy and consistency

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Because if you shoot ten shots, it takes a lot of time and the group will always get larger. Still, I consider this phenomenal for a featherweight at 300 yards. These lightweight, uber twitchy rifles are hard to shoot well.

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A six and half inch ten shot group at 300 yards is not bad, and the conditions were not still. This cartridge likes IMR 4350 and H4350. I got more velocity with the 4831's.

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From what I read, Dennis Demille, a former AMU shooter (maybe USMC shooter too) was primarily responsible for the concept. He was interested in a better across the course round and would have wanted something that would feed from the standard 308 Win short actions. Which, the 6.5 Swede is too long.


the cartridge concept came from a conversation between myself, Dennis DeMille and Joe Thielen of Hornady, at the 2005 National Matches at Camp Perry. Dennis was having a lot of problems with the 6 XC, with the non-standardized loading data causing lots of problems with stiff bolt lift and pierced primers. Bottom line was the 6 XC had to be loaded too hot, to give it the ballistics that the shooters wanted. Dennis said he wanted an off-the-shelf cartridge that was accurate enough to win, with less recoil than the .308 for rapid fire barrel life, comparable to the .308 and with the loading recipe on the box label.

from

The 6.5 Creedmoor — An interview with Hornady’s senior ballistician, Dave Emary
 
If speed was all that mattered neither of them would exist because there are several 6.5mm cartridges faster than both. I don't see 6.5 PRC becoming nearly as popular.

We have been assured by all of the Creedmoor fans that its claim to fame is superior long range accuracy in a short case length.
Since one factor of long range accuracy is for a cartridge to be flat shooting, and since this is dependent on velocity, the 6.5 PRC has greater long range accuracy thanks to it's 200 FPS greater velocity. Thanks to that velocity increase its also a more powerful and more effective hunting cartridge. And its the same length. They might just as well have called it the 6.5 Creedmoor Improved.
So, lets face it. The PRC makes the Creedmoor obsolete in its own market. The PRC is superior and newcomers will probably start buying rifles chambered for it instead.
 
We have been assured by all of the Creedmoor fans that its claim to fame is superior long range accuracy in a short case length.
Since one factor of long range accuracy is for a cartridge to be flat shooting, and since this is dependent on velocity, the 6.5 PRC has greater long range accuracy thanks to it's 200 FPS greater velocity. Thanks to that velocity increase its also a more powerful and more effective hunting cartridge. And its the same length. They might just as well have called it the 6.5 Creedmoor Improved.
So, lets face it. The PRC makes the Creedmoor obsolete in its own market. The PRC is superior and newcomers will probably start buying rifles chambered for it instead.
Don't need to shoot flat if you know your dope, I think the creed is a good multipurpose round whereas the prc will see more success in the hunting fields where barrels are burnt up slower. I'll take wind bucking over "flat shooting" any day. The .223 being able to launch longer bullets with standard rifle configurations than the .22-250 illustrates this nicely. The creed still has less recoil, decent performance, and a longer barrel life the prc is just the wsm to the .308 here, and certainly there's some value, but a replacement? Not quite.
 
the PRC requires a Magnum bolt face and wider magazine, which most budget bolt guns dont currently carry. It is also spec'd longer at 2.955, and simply wont fit properly in some of the shorter actions. Probably best "cheap" common action would be a savage short.
That makes it both more expensive, and harder to get into, than the CM which has very quickly become ubiquitous.

If im going to a long action, well Ill take a bigger magnum.
 
Part of the attraction of the CM to me is that as a reloader is that its more economical simply because it takes less powder than the Long Action cartridges. With contemporary powders in the short action cartridges such as the CM I get the performances, light recoil and accuracy that I (and most people) look for.

The CM has completely replaced the 308 for me in medium and long range. I'm just a paper puncher but anything 400 yards and over the CM has better accuracy with less recoil, which makes it more pleasant and satisfying.

Fortunately, since I've got around 4,00 projectiles in 308 (147 & 168) I also shoot the 300AAC in super and sub-sonic loads.
 
I still prefer the .308 Win as an all-around short action cartridge and consider it to be way more versatile than the 6.5 CM. It seems that the PRS prefers 6mm cartridges for their game, so who are the long range shooters that prefer the 6.5 Creedmoor? Not F-class, benchrest, service rifle or PRS, so who are these folks? I have a fair amount of experience with the 6.5 CM and 6.5x47mm Lapua having rifles chambered in both, and reloading for both. I have a Kimber 6.5 CM Classic on order but will probably give it to my gf as a birthday present this October. I only ordered one because it's a limited run with a nice walnut stock. I dabbled with the 6.5 PRC and wasn't impressed, but I have a lot of experience with .30, .338 and .375 cal cartridges and will happily stick with .308 Win, .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua Mag and .375 H&H Mag for all of my hunting and long-range needs.

For the record, I think the recoil mitigation advantages of the 6.5 CM compared to the .308 Win are highly exaggerated. 6mm CM vs. .308 Win is a different story. I've shot a lot of rifles and conducted apples to apples testing and there's more to it than a bunch of meaningless numbers from an online calculator.
 
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