Dogs on property...

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A cyclist of my acquaintance got bitten when he got tangled up in his bike and could not access spray or pistol. He was able to karate the mutt to avoid serious injury. He has changed his route.

There was a news item a while back about the stroller who carved an aggressive dog off of himself with a stout pocket knife.

Be aware that if you shoot a mean dog, you might well have to shoot a mean dog owner. So take all other measures first... but don't let your children get bitten no matter what it takes.
 
I don't think anyone disagrees that sometimes the only way to defend life and property is by deadly force.
What some of us here are saying is that when dealing with someone else's dog it is very advisable to make sure that deadly force is really necessary.
Some people are afraid of dogs (or animals in general) & consider the mere sight of a strange dog "a threat". I don't think that justifies killing the animal.
As far as dog owners responsibilities it's true that some dog owners don't care about their dogs but most are not like that And dogs (which believe or not are much like a young kid) are very smart and figure out how to get out of pens or clear fences when their owners are not around to watch them. If you have any experience with kids you know kids do the same things. So just because a dog is loose doesn't mean that their owner is an irresponsible SOB & that he deserves to have his dog killed.
Now, the other side of the coin is this; Some people hate dogs & kill them & some people simply enjoy killing & use a loose dog as an excuse.
Anyone of those two types as far as I'm concerned are among the lowest form of life on this earth.
 
Citadel99 said:
I’m out on travel and a couple of pit bulls were canvassing our property and back porch. I have small children and refuse to risk anything with them so I would have shot the dogs if I had been home but that’s not my wife’s style.
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Canvassing? Really!

I would not want to risk being charged with the destruction of someone else's personal property, or with the violation of some law regarding the treatment of animals, unless I had reason to believe that it were necessary.

The use of force laws we usually discuss in terms of self defense, etc. do not apply here. We would be asking others to decide whether the damage caused by what would normally be a crime would be offset by the damage or loss to others that would be avoided by the necessary act involved. In most places, the burden of proof in such cases is on the person who did it.

I doubt that "canvassing...property and back porch" would go very far in a defense against criminal charges.
 
I love dogs, more so than most people. And there are plenty of low life's and vicious dogs. A vicious dog, and it's owner should suffer the same consequences if the dog attacks. I would have no pity on either.
Unfortunately this is not a perfect world. Usually it is the dog that is put down and the good for nothing owner gets to walk off free.
 
You could get a bigger dog yourself or have your wife get a cute little dog, then once it’s killed she might be more inclined to take them out herself.

Are they tagged?

Had a pair take out 9 chickens at my house one day, unlike coyotes that just take what they can eat, they just killed one and went after another and repeat. Feathers and dead chickens all over the yard, grabbed a chair that evening and they returned for some more fun, had no tags and got shot instead.
 
Jim Watson said:
A cyclist of my acquaintance got bitten when he got tangled up in his bike and could not access spray or pistol. He was able to karate the mutt to avoid serious injury. He has changed his route.

There was a news item a while back about the stroller who carved an aggressive dog off of himself with a stout pocket knife.

Be aware that if you shoot a mean dog, you might well have to shoot a mean dog owner. So take all other measures first... but don't let your children get bitten no matter what it takes.
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I ride a bike every morning around my neighborhood and I have picked out a bad dog free route. However I was talking to a county deputy and ask him what I should do if I got attacked by a dog. He said " as long as you are on the road and not on private property, Shoot it. We will stand on your side ". Nice to know but I still worry about the owner of that dog and what legal action they might take.
 
We do have a neighbor with a massive pit bull that attacked his wife which resulted in an ambulance ride to the hospital. For some reason, they still have the dog. That dog is the reason I carry on my early morning jogs because it's the same time that guy is out walking the pit bull.

Any strays, especially a pit bull, on my property is a huge threat to my children. So yes, I'm not okay with that. We have a dog, I'm a dog person. I can also separate my love of dogs from the risk potential of little kids interacting with a stray dog that mauls them. Could I live with shooting a dog? Yes. Could I live with knowing I could have done something and one of my kids is maimed or killed by a dog? No.

My question wasn't in regards to whether or not to do something, everyone makes their own decision. My question was more in regards to non-lethal options or something outside of shooting the dog.

Canvassing, roaming whatever. Don't get bent around the axle on verbiage. I have the video and I'm not comfortable with their behavior. That's enough for me. I don't think my wife/kids should be pinned inside the house because some animal is roaming our property.
 
The Evangelist Cowboy said:
Having been forced to kill a dog before I would say, exhaust other options first if nothing else do what you need to.
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This. I treat dogs as I do any potential threat. First I do everything I can to avoid the threat or remove myself from the situation. I call the police if necessary. I do not go out to confront the threat unless there's a reason to do so, such as protecting someone else. Shooting the dog, or any other threat is the last resort.
 
I don't think my wife/kids should be pinned inside the house because some animal is roaming our property.
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At my Sisters house, we have to go inside whenever a bear comes walking up but elimination isn’t an option. So sometimes you just can’t help it. If she doesn’t want or can’t do anything about the problem, that’s the only other choice she has other than take a chance.
 
I’d rather them stay inside than try to go out and do something about it. Agreed that sometimes you cant help it. My biggest concern is my kids taking my dog out to go pee not knowing these dogs are on the property and something really bad goes down.
 
It happens, a friends daughter let her (tiny) dog out to go to the bathroom one morning and watched it get snatched by a coyote.

Depending on where you live there could be lots of predators that you won’t see as much as the less sneaky stray dog.
 
Why would someone's dog be on my property? The owner sounds like needs to take better charge of his animal if he cares about it.

Beyond that, If I feel a dog is threatening me or my family, I would not mind shooting him.
 
We have numerous stray dogs in this area: Most were discarded by their owners. i've been attacked twice while hunting. The dogs were a huge Samoyed and a pit bull: i killed both. Neither dog was collared. However, both those dogs had worn collars in the past: Folks simply threw them away.

Some one in this county threw away three dogs locked in their cages:

https://www.kswo.com/2018/10/08/dogs-found-dead-cages-along-county-road/
 
jmorris said:
It happens, a friends daughter let her (tiny) dog out to go to the bathroom one morning and watched it get snatched by a coyote.

Depending on where you live there could be lots of predators that you won’t see as much as the less sneaky stray dog.
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Sign at the entrance to the Furnace Creek campground in Death Valley: Coyotes: 3, Pets: 0. Very effective message.

Where I live, I hear coyotes singing every night. They keep the feral dog population just where it should be. Zero.
 
This thread is not going to end well.

I absolutely despise people who intentionally abandon dogs/cats (I have owned two cats that were abandoned)

I have personally used Saber Red on habituated coyotes and they avoided human beings like the plague from then on.

I wouldn't kill a dog unless I (or my family) was in immediate danger or I had exhausted all other non lethal options.
 
A accurate medium power Air Rifle with a shot to their rear end will usually keep an annoying animal away without permanent harm...
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I would STRONGLY advise against shooting an animal with an airgun as a deterrent unless you are willing to shoot yourself with the same airgun. Because the ammunition has a very small frontal area, penetration can be surprising even with a relatively weak airgun.

I have no problem with people killing a problem animal, but using an airgun as a deterrent is not a good idea unless you've done testing to insure that it won't cause injury and can guarantee that you can place your shot to avoid areas that might be more easily injured. If you want to scare an animal away by shooting it but without hurting it, get a paintball gun and dial the power down until it doesn't break your skin when you test it on yourself and then practice enough to make sure you can place the shot away from the head or other easily injured areas.

If you don't want to take the time and put forth the effort and expenditure to make sure that your "deterrent" method is humane, then either kill the animal outright or leave it alone.
 
Texasgrillchef said:
I don’t like pepper spray. I went to spray it once and the wind blew it back in my face!
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A gel OC spray would be an option if you are concerned with wind blowing it back. While wind still affects a gel if its strong enough, it is less likely.

Just today I had an aggressive german shepard show up on my property. Didn't use my spray and did not have a firearm at the time. Grabbed my BB gun from inside and gave it one good shot on the back of the thigh. He has given my property a wide berth the rest of the day, and probably for awhile.
 
In city limits I would use a can of carburetor cleaner with the little red straw and a propane torch.
Blow some fire balls at them and they don't come back.
No dog has ever charged through a fire ball.
None ever got close enough to singe 1 strand of fur.

It's a deterrent that can both be all show and completely harmless or potentially lethal.

Now I live out in the country. No need for weapons of antiquity.
 
Charlie Martinez said:
dogs (which believe or not are much like a young kid) are very smart and figure out how to get out of pens or clear fences when their owners are not around to watch them.
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This is definitely true. Years ago I had a dog who although she would bark too much if I left her home in the backyard, would at least stay in the backyard. Then I took in a second dog which my cousin said she couldn't keep where she was renting. Well, that dog had originally been a street dog, and he taught my dog how to jump over my six-foot fence. (This was not chain-link that could be climbed over, it was wood. I never saw them do it but in retrospect I guess it was quite a feat.) They would go out to explore the neighborhood. I tried chaining them to stakes in the ground, the first way they outsmarted that was to help each other out of their collars. Then I put the stakes further apart, they pulled the stakes out of the ground and went over the fence chains and all, it was a miracle they didn't strangle themselves on the way over. Some lady a few blocks away called to tell me they had gotten the chains tangled in a bush at her house and would I please come untangle them and take them home. After that I gave dog #2 back to my cousin, but my dog already knew all the tricks and if she didn't want to stay home she didn't stay home. It was pretty horrible.
 
alsaqr said:
We have numerous stray dogs in this area: Most were discarded by their owners. i've been attacked twice while hunting. The dogs were a huge Samoyed and a pit bull: i killed both. Neither dog was collared. However, both those dogs had worn collars in the past: Folks simply threw them away.

Some one in this county threw away three dogs locked in their cages:

https://www.kswo.com/2018/10/08/dogs-found-dead-cages-along-county-road/
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What a lowlife.

Do you have animal shelters there where people could take a pet they can no longer care for?
 
old lady new shooter said:
Do you have animal shelters there where people could take a pet they can no longer care for?
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Lawton has an animal shelter. Many owners of unwanted dogs won't pay the drop-off fee: They simply release their dogs.

Over 60 percent of dog fatalities in the US are caused by pit bulls.

https://www.swoknews.com/local/boy-killed-dog-identified

Someone gave this guy a pit bull of unknown origin. It killed his daughter:

https://www.kswo.com/story/37268393/father-of-girl-who-was-killed-in-duncan-dog-attack-speaks/

To the original poster:

Do whatever is required to protect your family.
 
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Citadel99 said:
Canvassing, roaming whatever. Don't get bent around the axle on verbiage.
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It is on what the "verbiage" means that would be considered by others in determining whether you maintain your clean record.

Citadel99 said:
I have the video
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Good. Could work for or against you.

Citadel99 said:
....and I'm not comfortable with their behavior. That's enough for me.
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As in so many things in law, that's not all that matters.

Good Ol' Boy said:
Just to touch on a point mentioned earlier, know your local laws.
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Yep.

Good Ol' Boy said:
We just had a law passed in VA that makes animal cruelty a felony.
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We have that here. News articles report someone being charged about every three or four weeks.
 
Interestingly enough, a little use of the Google finds that Texas law allows you to kill a dog that has attacked or is even about to attack your chicken, goat, or puppy but not you or your child...

§ 822.013. Dogs or Coyotes That Attack Animals
(a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:

(1) any person witnessing the attack; or

(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

(b) A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

(c) A person who discovers on the person's property a dog or coyote known or suspected of having killed livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may detain or impound the dog or coyote and return it to its owner or deliver the dog or coyote to the local animal control authority. The owner of the dog or coyote is liable for all costs incurred in the capture and care of the dog or coyote and all damage done by the dog or coyote.

(d) The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that is known to have attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls shall control the dog or coyote in a manner approved by the local animal control authority.

(e) A person is not required to acquire a hunting license under Section 42.002, Parks and Wildlife Code, to kill a dog or coyote under this section.
 
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