change ccw after el paso?

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That is very understandable for any current or retired LEO or military trained person.

I am neither, so I'm interested in your thoughts on a few follow up comments I have. As a non-LEO, I have often thought that the best way for me to help as a CC permit holder in a situation like this is to look for the nearest exit in this situation, and try to usher anyone near me out the door, and cover them and myself. Afterwards, if I think a shooter is not near the exit I am at, maybe step back in and see if anyone else is coming by, and cover their escape as well. Or, cover the door I just exited, and if the shooter steps out, take shots at the individual from cover. I train for speed and defensive shooting at various distances, but I don't feel without specific training for this type of a scenario that me running toward a shooter and getting in the middle would actually be helpful. I picture myself just adding to the confusion and chaos as LE tries to stop the shooter, and maybe getting shot be LE myself. Additionally, my carry pistol is not going to have the same range or effectiveness as a rifle armed assailant.

If the shooter presents an opportunity, and I can take some well aimed shots, THEN I have a responsibility as a citizen to kill/injure the shooter so people can escape or the attack is stopped. I see my responsibility as more of a evacuation helper than an armed individual who should directly confront a shooter. I'm not wearing body armor, I'm under gunned, and I don't have the training, so help how I can.


And I guess that's my thoughts on it right there. I hear people in the gun culture promote the idea of "Well dang it people need to have courage and run towards the problem and stop it." To me it sounds like poorly thought out hero fantasy ideas. "How many lives could have been saved in the theater shooting in CO years ago if people had been armed?" I picture a lot of these situations being made far worse if everyone has a vigilante/hero mindset. I think opportunities to evacuate potential victims should be taken. I think opportunistic surprise attacks on a an active shooter should be taken. I believe covering exits until LE shows up should happen.

I don't necessarily think a bunch of pistol carrying untrained folks running into rifle fire is going to result in a better outcome in a lot of cases.

Thoughts?
I advocated for training more than anyone here. It's not a heroes fantasy. People with the mindset of helping others don't go around thinking they're Batman and saving the day there is no "White Knight" thing going down, you are stopping violence with violence your no better then the other guy in that regard. Your better because he uses violence to take life where I would hope yours is to save life.
 
The problems I see with aggressively going after the shooter is being charged afterwards with a felony. Recently in Birmingham area there was a case where the first responders shot a civilian that was going after the shooter. I would first make sure my family is safe and take a defensive stand. The video of the gas station has me thinking about an AR behind the truck seat as a defensive weapon. I carry a shield 45 and my truck gun is a glock 45gap.
We train by first shooting our CCW 1 mag and then run around a tree about 10yrds away then shoot another mag, then we shoot 2 shots from 3 different locations running between them. I loose accuracy the more we do. Some times I load a squib and put it in the mag to train for a malfunction.
 
My family first. I'm taking every measure to protect me and my family first that I can. Not someone who won't protect themselves. It's their choice.
 
My family first. I'm taking every measure to protect me and my family first that I can. Not someone who won't protect themselves. It's their choice.
I stated to get your family out first but to not go back and engage when you have the means is negligent and you would be held to the same status as the man with the AK whether you like it or not. If that's the way you wanna be then fine no one is gonna change your mind. I hope to God you never find you and your family in that situation.
 
What if something happens to me? Who's going to take care of my family?
Personal responsibility means many things. Wars are not fought alone by childless people. I never said it wasnt a risk. I never said you would even come out alive. All I stated is my thoughts same as you. It's up to you to decide what's worth what and no one can judge you for that. Most likely nothing will ever happen to you, but take it from me survivors guilt and non action tear at you something fierce and you won't ever be right the same way you were I'm sure others on here service or LEO/Parsmedic/firefighters and even regular Joe's that have been in some strenuous situations can attest to.this.
 
I advocated for training more than anyone here. It's not a heroes fantasy. People with the mindset of helping others don't go around thinking they're Batman and saving the day there is no "White Knight" thing going down, you are stopping violence with violence your no better then the other guy in that regard. Your better because he uses violence to take life where I would hope yours is to save life.
Sure, and I certainly don’t think everyone advocating armed citizens take action are having hero fantasies. Some do however, and I’m advocating for realistic notions about how to help along with training.

Batmen we are not. However, first responders we are.
 
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I stated to get your family out first but to not go back and engage when you have the means is negligent and you would be held to the same status as the man with the AK whether you like it or not. If that's the way you wanna be then fine no one is gonna change your mind. I hope to God you never find you and your family in that situation.
Negligible? based on what FACTS and law?
 
Negligible? based on what FACTS and law?
I never said law. Concealed means concealed if no one knows your carrying you do nothing and get out Scot free the only thing you have to live with is yourself. But if it did get out you may have the realm of public opinion to deal with. We saw this against the deputy in the Florida school shooting. He lost his job, no one will have anything to do with him, hell people were even trying to sue him. And before you go into the whole "he's a cop so it's expected" we are the demographic that says the most that police are not obligated to protect you.
 
You carry a gun to protect you and yours, NOT to play cop or superhero. Doing so is a great way to get shot by the cops while trying to save the day.
I just advocated for training and how the hero mentality is a farce. If all you care about is you and yours get outta the situation and let better men than you handle it
 
Nice insult.....your posts hold no meaning for me with that attitude. What type of preacher are you?
 
Nice insult.....your posts hold no meaning for me with that attitude. What type of preacher are you?
It's not an insult. If your unwilling to do anything then that's fine, but you don't get any high ground against those who would. If you want to discuss religious backgrounds on self defense or in general this is not the avenue your more than free to PM me. There's better men than me I promise you that. I can relay a situation that I didn't assist a family that still nags at my conscience. But that's a story for another time.
 
I hadnt seen that clip either. As of my understanding it was the Walmart not the mall. If people are not engaging there is no point to carrying a gun, that's my view and I'll stick to it. Regarding the citizenship of the people there, I cant comment on that. Im sure there was a few who don't belong here however that also doesn't warrant them getting killed like roadkill in the street. There was a story if a couple shielding their baby from harm and ended up dying, a man saw that and threw coke cans against the shooter in an attempt to draw fire away from the kid and the man was shot instead. Both he and the babe lived. That man had more cajones without a gun then people here who carry but say they wouldn't fight.

I would also like to add to my previous comment that many people from foreign countries are culturally against gun ownership. A Wal Mart full of immigrants from Western Europe would have very few carry permit owners
 
I would also like to add to my previous comment that many people from foreign countries are culturally against gun ownership. A Wal Mart full of immigrants from Western Europe would have very few carry permit owners
True. But I said before it's the willingness to do something like the two men who saved children and one confronting the attacker that makes the difference. the people with cell phone coverage is a different story.
 
True. But I said before it's the willingness to do something like the two men who saved children and one confronting the attacker that makes the difference. the people with cell phone coverage is a different story.

I do not understand why people either do nothing or fill everything they see.

That young student that died charging a shooter recently is an almost unique situation
 
I do not understand why people either do nothing or fill everything they see.

That young student that died charging a shooter recently is an almost unique situation
Likes on social media I guess. I can understand the people running away I cannot understand the video recording. THR and LinkedIn is the extent of my social media platforms. I have no reason or desire to get thumbs up on a a Facebook or Twitter post.
 
I carry a J frame sized gun in 9mm. Ruger LCR to be exact. I am not going to hunt the perp down find cover and protect those around me. If he approaches then I start firing

Too many chances of getting popped by the police coming it looking for a guy with a gun. They have no idea who the bad guy and good guys are or do you.

What if you shoot an undercover cop who happens to be there when the shooting starts?

What he said^^^^^

Only difference is I would have my S&W 442.
My CCW is for protection, not enforcement or apprehension.
 
Amateurs talk equipment. Professionals talk tactics. sgt127's post has much truth in it. The best time to get the 'what if's' out of the way is before something happens. Be observant and conscious of your surroundings; Cover, concealment. Keep a running 'what if' scenario going (in your mind) in those situations where you are at unease in public situations. If you're in the kill zone when the shooting starts, you better have thought about your reaction before hand. I know what mine will be. Flank and attack with VOA. Dang Army training.

You need to stop giving advice. You are talking about millions of untrained people. You want to help others, become a professional in the field of security that deals with crowds etc.
 
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